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Faceplams: used have undertow at the neurolux in boise.Originally Posted by Louie_Cypher
grrr. woof.
used have undertow at the neurolux in boise.
Active Member
They look really striking but sound like garbage (as most picture discs do). Great for the art but disappointing if you want to listen to it, and it's a shame since I consider Lateralus their lushest album.
Did anybody buy one of these I'm thinking about getting one?
Throbbing Member
got one too, bought used for $15
Did anybody buy one of these I'm thinking about getting one?I was happy with my find but it's not that great sounding indeed.
Stubby Member
I kind of like the artwork and packaging, I will probably never attempt to play it, as Kleiner352 mentioned it has striking artwork.
I was nobody. Nothing.
I FINALLY got hold of maynard's book. i'm excited
Cubby NIИtastic
It's weird, my picture disc of Manson's ACS sounds pretty impressive, but yeah the Lateralus pressing is awful. I've got the discs framed for display though, so it's not a total loss.
Dis-member
Hahahahahahaha!!!
lol@looking at the first pages of this thread
Active Member
They don't earn a penny from digital sales. Not exactly high on their list of things to do then.
Dis-member
So you're saying there was never any money to be made off digital sales.
We get it, you hate them and will criticize every single move. If they end up on streaming services or iTunes they've sold their soul to the devil for pennies on the dollar.
<3
Active Member
What happened with this situation? I've honestly never heard of any other band having such a crap deal they don't actually earn a penny from digital sales. (Maybe others do and I just haven't heard).Don't they have legal recourse to say these are unfair contract terms and have it scrapped?
Last edited by WorzelG; 03-24-2017 at 11:56 AM.
God is an American
When the band says they have been busy working on this and other legal matters, maybe take these comments at face value?
Last edited by botley; 03-24-2017 at 01:28 PM.
I was nobody. Nothing.
So i am concerned for Tool. They have built up so much fucking anticipation for this album that when they do release it, even if it's utterly incredible, people are still going to bitch. This level of anticipation just cannot be satisfied, you know? No matter what, a LOT of people aren't going to like it.
God is an American
I'm pretty sure they don't pay attention, so why the concern?
i'm too thin
I know I'm constantly bringing up Ween, but...
I don't know if the primary audience is just getting older, but the crowds at the 5 Ween shows I've attended are the prime example of how I'd love to experience a Tool show. The floors were pretty packed, but it was like you could still stand in your spot and not touch anybody. There was absolutely no 'moshing' - people got the tiniest bit moving during the heavy/crazy songs (and calmed down immediately after, which is when it should happen) but it was otherwise incredibly tame the whole time. It was awesome. I could chill on the rail and not get crushed by 500 people behind me. It wasn't claustrophobic, it wasn't distracting from the show.
That sort of thing would be great for Tool. It's not seats but it's also not drunk fratboy morons moshing and trying to crush you the whole time. I know at a Tool floor show, it would most likely be the latter, but I can dream.
Although, I know Tool has done a couple GA floor shows during the last tour. I'm pretty sure Bill Graham in SF is GA floor. Can anybody who went to any of those shows chime in regarding how the crowd acted? Have they started to calm down over the years?
Cubby NIИtastic
Given this review on toolnavy of the first night, I'm gonna say the answer to that last question is a big no.
"I too have a "rant" about that show,
at 55 years old, i should have known better than to go on the floor close to the
stage but I thought I would be relatively safe. Tool fans are smart music lovers.
during the 3 teeth performance in front of me I watched a mosh pit get started
by a mid thirties red haired woman, With her elbows up high, She took a running start and barrelled into the back of some unsuspecting and unlucky fans who had no idea they were about to be in a mosh pit. that mosh pit stayed active mostly because of that woman as she made sure to keep pushing and shoving the crowd around her. Im not sure what her ultimate goal was
maybe this was her ONLY chance of physical contact? unfortunately this set the tone for the crowd on the floor when Tool took the stage.
I managed to stay on my feet during No Quarter, The Grudge,and Parobol/A
it was not an easy thing to do as the crowd swayed side to side ,forward and backwards
many times I got hit hard by elbows and shoulders. I watched people get smacked hard
and then violently retaliate usually resulting in other innocents getting smacked.
the crowd around me kept it going and I saw fear in some peoples eyes and real hatred in others
They paid a $100 so they could literally beat up other people "legally".
I could hear schism being played as i turned and headed towards the back of the floor. as i started feeling like i was going to puke. I didnt but it took me until Danny hit the gong after the fast breakdown part of the song to make it to behind the soundboard area.
I felt much safer there and i felt better about leaving the main floor too. I went Jan 7 too
and stayed up in the Balcony seats. I will review that show too.
Ive been a fan since 1993"
Dis-member
Theres zero, zilch, nada, no way, not a snow balls chance in hell, none, etc. chance if the new album drops that it lives to the hype and expectations. None.
Imagine after all this time if they drop something that was as receptive by fans as, say, Hesitation Marks. The Internet will be fun those following days. Not sure what I'm looking my more forward too!!!
Active Member
It depends on their contract and when it was inked. I mean, they've been on the same label for a long time. I've long wondered what Tool would have to do to break their contract. I legitimately think the "curveball" was going to be a digital release of new recordings of old songs. Most labels own the rights to recordings but not performances. Mike Doughty and Art Alexis have both done this. Autolux was able to escape with the rights to everything and re-released their debut album independently so for awhile there were two versions of the album available digitally.
Speaking of bands that ended up with a prolonged wait between albums, Autolux. Jesus. They even released a single then waited almost two years before the actual album and it was a huge disappointment.
Honestly, Tool's been embroiled in two lawsuits between Ænima and Lateralus and Lateralus, 10,000 Days, and up until two years ago.
Adam's main complaint about the label seems to be that they'll front the money for recording but Tool can't make back the money to pay back the label. If there's some master scheme to their touring (besides $$) is raising money for studio space and to keep the label costs to a minimum.
Also this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Active Member
I swear a few years ago (Internet time, so maybe a decade?) there was talk of all of these artists using a law in California to break their contracts with the labels. What happened with that? Was there a loophole that was closed?
edit:OK, so maybe two decades.Virgin Records America Inc. has filed suit against one of its biggest acts, the Smashing Pumpkins, for alleged breach of contract and non-delivery of albums.
Filed Tuesday in California Superior Court for the County of Los Angeles, the suit alleges that the Smashing Pumpkins delivered only three albums instead of the seven due under the terms of the band's contract with Virgin, dated March 12, 1991.
According to the suit, the Smashing Pumpkins, citing California Labor Code section 2855, which limits personal services contracts to seven years, informed Virgin in October 1997 that they would not deliver any more albums under the contract effective Jan. 13, 1998. In the suit, Virgin contends that under the same California Labor Code section, the label is entitled to recover damages for each album the group has not delivered.
The suit seeks compensatory damages, interest, and reimbursement of legal costs. Representatives for the Smashing Pumpkins could not be reached by deadline.
Last edited by allegate; 03-24-2017 at 04:25 PM.
Active Member
as a fan I've grown tired of defending this band it may be time to move on
-Louie
Stubby Member
I'm not defending or complaining about Tool, but you can't fault a band if their fans act like idiots and want to mosh when they are 30 to 40 years old. I have never been a big fan of the mosh pit even when I was young. As for how long their album is taking, yes its ridiculous, but in the end they are only hurting themselves. By leaving the fans anticipating something for so long that they can't possibly live up the hype and anticipation, only hurts the band. Maybe they just don't give a fuck. A band like Tool probably doesn't have to worry about losing its fan base, I think that is built in and the majority of their fans would never leave.
I would like to go see them provided I don't have to get on a plane to go to one of their shows.
Throbbing Member
It wouldn’t take a huge effort from them to surpass 10,000 Days, which was in my opinion kind of pedestrian. Come to think of it Lateralus didn’t do a whole bunch for me either. Granted their technical proficiency is always respectable, but Undertow and Aenima are the beginning and end of my love affair with Tool. That said, I’d still welcome a new Tool album this decade. If these guys have really been “working on it” for as long as they say, there’s got to be some goodies.Theres zero, zilch, nada, no way, not a snow balls chance in hell, none, etc. chance if the new album drops that it lives to the hype and expectations. None.
I was nobody. Nothing.
I'm with you on 10,000 days.
But Lateralus, i thought, was fucking INCREDIBLE. I got into tool when i received a copy of Undertow for my 13th birthday. It was angry alternative metal but showed signs of lyrical genius, imho. I backtracked to Opiate and found the punk influence and high energy performance that kind of defined that era of tool.
Aenima came out and it took me awhile to warm up to it, because it just wasn't the Tool i had grown to love. It was like, spiritual and whatnot, and that sort of alienated me. But once it DID open up to me, i fell madly in love with it. I don't even have to listen to it because it is fucking part of my brain at this point. I saw them like 3 times on Aenima and it was incredible.
For me, Lateralus continued the like spiritual evolution and the "exploration of the metaphysical" vibe that started with tracks like Third Eye. It's all about what it means to be a human, an animal, but also feel the divine spark within you and know that you are part and parcel of god. I saw it as a natural progression from Aenima, and all the "celebrate being alive" really spoke to me. After my wife and i nearly died in that car crash five years ago, we listened to Lateralus on repeat for like 12 hours. Lateralus is, imo, a kinder, gentler tool in terms of lyrics, but without sacrificing the heaviness. They also really pushed the envelope with the time signatures too.
And then 10,000 days. Sigh. Wings for Marie, i get it and it has some powerful moments, but dear GOD the music is annoying and repetitive to no end. Is it like that on purpose? And Vicarious, a song about TV and shit? Seriously? I mean, musically it's great, but the lyrics are sub par. And The Pot, where do i begin?
The only track on that record that continues the evolution i was enjoying over the years is Jambi.
So, yeah, it wouldn't take much to top 10,000 days. For the record, i want the new tool album to be about "getting fucked in your chakras or whatever" as one of you so eloquently put it awhile back.
And i think that's what a LOT of us want.
But it wouldn't surprise me if the new album is full of dick jokes and whatnot.
It seems to me that Maynard WANTS to piss off his fans.
Dis-member
Its not so much how it compares to 10k Days, as much as it's comparing to the amount of time this album is taking to come out. It will get a lot of hype and I can't think in my lifetime a record that will be more anticipated.
Assuming this thing eventuLly sees the light of day, you know what's going to be odd? Listening to new Tool music. It'll be flat out weird for me. Wether it'll be good or bad my first impression will more likely be "WTF?"
Active Member
Danny called it their "blues album" when it came out and I think it represents a really weird time for Maynard lyrically and the band as a whole. Danny had defined their albums by the era with Reagan and Bush defining their early music and the Clinton years defining an era of peaceful evolution for the band. Danny and Maynard were openly critical of the second Bush administration.
I think Vicarious is a repudiation of Maynard's own idealism and the reaction to eMOTIVe. He's said he felt like he stuck his neck out and was upset by the backlash.
I totally feel you on Jambi. It's definitely an exploration of emotional and spiritual growth.
As far as Wings/10k Days I've always seen that large, sprawling, meandering solo and repetitive rhythm section as a musical accompaniment to the feeling of loss and confusion that the lyrics paint. The band comes together wonderfully at times and reinforces moments of certainty and strength.
The Pot is... The Pot and I like it for what it is.
As much as Rosetta Stoned is based on Bill Manspeaker's experience I think it's also a Hooker With A Penis-style critique of consumerism and over-zealous fans of the band.
Intension and Right In Two are absolutely spiritual songs, I think. They're outward-looking rather than the introspective thoughtfulness of Lateralus. It's kind of a meditation on human nature and appealing to our better angels (no pun intended).
The album is definitely more grounded than Ænima and Lateralus and it lacks the eloquence of the latter. I think the album has its own voice, though, and creates its own context. It's not really about answers like Lateralus. It's about questions and resignation to the world and unpleasant realities.
I have no idea what a new album would be like. It's clear from interviews and his autobiography that Maynard is in a happier place personally and hasn't abandoned the principles that form the cornerstone of Lateralus. So, honestly, who knows?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dis-member
That scream at the end though.... my god! Still sends tingles down my fun bone.
Active Member
VIP Package price: $499.98 USD each
oh really?!?
-Louie
Dis-member
Theyve been doing this for quite a few years now. Nothing new to bitch about!
Throbbing Member
To be fair yes Lateralus is a pretty good album, a classic of the 2000’s decade, and overall much better than 10,000 Days. Maybe for me the disconnect from Lateralus is a personal bias that goes back to around the Lateralus era and an interview where Maynard took a little dig at NIN and The Fragile while self inflating his own importance as some kind of vanguard of the scene (around the 3:40 to 3:50 mark below).
That remark was bullshit from him. If he took the best tracks from Lateralus and 10,000 Days and put them together as an album it still wouldn’t equal the epic The Fragile was. But that was years ago and should probably just be forgotten by now.
Cubby NIИtastic
^I really don't think that was snarky at all. All he said was the NIN record didn't do that well. That's nothing to do with the quality of it. Obviously The Fragile is a masterpiece, but compared to TDS it was definitely a commercial disappointment, despite debuting at #1 on the charts. It plummeted in its 2nd week, actually holding the unfortunate record for the biggest drop from #1 for a few years IIRC.
Active Member
what's I think that's 50bucks a song?
-Louie
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