11/08/2022, The Midterms, aka build on 2020 aka The Election Thread

[Demogorgon]

...I believe that the newcomers to the system aren't putting up with this shit. They believe that changes can be made to the system without throwing out the entire system, and that's okay, too.

I agree that the entire system doesn't need chucked out the window. Substantial changes need to be made, sure, but the whole thing isn't totally unsalvageable. I'm not really into total anarchy.

Remember, most of these people in Congress act like they all hate each other but most of them are all drinking and laughing together after hours.

I'm not saying they all have to be horrible adversaries 24/7, but I think they should all remember why they're there and who put them there.

I believe this 100%. Most of what we see in the media is all for show, because strong emotion is what keeps constituents invested.

And they sure as fuck shouldn't be giving themselves RAISES.

Absolute truth.

[Sarah K]

Warren with a leap, Harris with a drop (which surprised me).

[Demogorgon]

I'm still betting that Biden is going to secure the nomination. Most of the polls, like that one, have been consistently in his favor, and although i don't praise polls as absolute after 2016, i feel like he's going to be the most comfortable/least radical choice for many.

[Sarah K]

I definitely think that his nomination is more or less inevitable. But I'll be fighting for Warren up until the very last second.

[Jinsai]

Warren with a leap, Harris with a drop (which surprised me).

I'm mostly surprised that Beto's numbers haven't shifted at all, positively or negatively, considering his visibility in the wake of the El Paso shooting. I figured it would have nudged one way or the other.

[Demogorgon]

I'm mostly surprised that Beto's numbers haven't shifted at all, positively or negatively, considering his visibility in the wake of the El Paso shooting. I figured it would have nudged one way or the other.

You know, i kinda wonder about Beto, too. He had all of this momentum when everything got started, now, even with El Paso and him being more or less center stage, i haven't seen him mentioned much in the media at all. Mainstream or otherwise. It's like the political machine just kind of forget about him.

[Sarah K]

Beto REALLY shit the bed the first debate, and that harmed him. His debate prep team deserves praise though, as he did MUCH better the second round.

[Exocet]

Bernie Sanders foreign policy is cited as the biggest weakness in his campaign, he barely mentions the American Empire, with its role as the global linchpin since 1945 and its hundreds of military bases around the world. Bernie wants the US to be just another normal country , which it is not, he wants to rid himself of the foreign policy burden, he wants to be like France, the UK, Germany or Japan powerful but able to take a step back. and focus on itself.
it seems like Tulsi Gabbard is filling the void in that department. she is exploiting the weakness in the sanders camp in that department, she mostly talks about foreign policy, she wants to wind down the American empire too, but her main thing is foreign policy, i think she may be one to take seriously, young populist woman minority nationalist with fans on both the left and right, remember how absurd a trump presidency seemed at this point in 2015, just something to think about,

[allegro]

Beto REALLY shit the bed the first debate, and that harmed him. His debate prep team deserves praise though, as he did MUCH better the second round.

He talks about Texas WAY too much, though. That’s fine if you’re running for Governor or Senator, but it gets old if you’re running for President of the United States. ANY of them need to learn how to apply their past experience to Executive experience that would apply to all voters when presenting information in a debate or a speech; otherwise, people outside the district stop listening.

This goes for Pete, too.

Not “when I was Mayor of South Bend, here’s what we did ... (blah blah blah).

The ONLY way talking about your own district works is when you do it like Bill Clinton did it.

Bill Clinton won because of this: “I feel your pain.”

[Deacon Blackfire]

I'm still betting that Biden is going to secure the nomination. Most of the polls, like that one, have been consistently in his favor, and although i don't praise polls as absolute after 2016, i feel like he's going to be the most comfortable/least radical choice for many.

Unfortunately I believe this as well. Biden's major running point is "I can beat Trump", and at this point I think a lot of people are going to gravitate to that tepid middle ground out of fear that going "too radical" will help Trump win. However, I tend to think running another center-hewing Democrat like Biden and Clinton before him would basically guarantee a 2nd term for Trump.

Trump didn't win because he outperformed previous Republicans by huge margins - really, that election was more about the votes Clinton DIDN'T get as opposed to the votes Trump got. It was about the people who didn't vote. Racist voter suppression laws in red states obviously played a huge part but it went beyond that. Huge swaths of the country didn't vote and caused Clinton to underperform in crucial areas, because 1) Clinton was a milquetoast centrist whose support was basically defined by opposition to her rival ("she's better than Trump" was the main motivator, not thinking Clinton would do the job to your liking), who took her support in the places she needed as a given, and 2) Clinton's campaign did a better job convincing people Trump had no chance of winning than convincing them that they should/needed to vote for her, which resulted in a lot of people just staying home and not casting a vote. Trump fatigue will help Biden get around that second point, but the first point still stands for him, and after his awful debate performances and numerous moronic statements this early into the election cycle, I am bewildered by anyone who thinks he is the "safest" choice. The stale centrism he represents failed catastrophically in 2016 and yet the Democratic machine is poised to rally behind him dutifully because they have learned nothing. They would rather lose to fascism while tsk-tsking the electorate for not embracing their lazy mediocrity than move an inch left and risk compromising the Democratic party hierarchy and its institutional power and privilege. Nancy Pelosi's recent conduct perfectly exemplifies this, from abdicating her constitutional duty to impeach in favor of banking it all on voting him out in 2020, to going more scorched-earth against leftist members of her own party like the Squad (the people who represent actual values, who represent the future of their party) than the vile scumbags trying to destroy every mechanism we have to save our country.

I just could not be more discouraged by Democratic "leadership" in these past four years. They are the only realistic option for political opposition we have, and instead of rising to meet the awful tide of the Trump-era, they are - yet again - banking on the non-existent standards of the Republican party to squeeze by the least desirable candidate possible. They are again leveraging the desperation of the electorate in another "lesser of two evils" choice, even after doing so in 2016 went so disastrously wrong. And before anyone says it, yes, Biden is far, far, FAR less evil than Trump and if I need to, I'll vote for the white-toothed dingus. I just feel he is the opposite of the "safe" candidate that they are marketing him as.

[M1ke]

I was just out for a break from work and couldn't watch the entire thing, but listening to Biden speak a few moments ago gave me hope.

If he's the worst candidate the democrats have, then we're doing great.

It made me really want to see him call trump a useless racist piece of shit in the middle of a debate. I remember him saying something about beating him up if they were in college, I want to see a Trump VS Biden "debate". It wouldn't really be a debate though, it would be Biden intimidating the fuck out of trump and trump not knowing what do to.

Fuck Trump.

[Demogorgon]

I remember him saying something about beating him up if they were in college

That's straight bully shit though. That's the kind of stuff Trump himself would say. "Yeah, i'd have kicked your ass bro, yeah dude, totally!" Right wing folks like friggin Ted Nugent used to say that about Obama and it was just as cringeworthy then. I mean, there are plenty of ways to take Trump apart without resorting to "i'd have kicked his ass", especially considering that this country has a violence problem already.

[M1ke]

That's straight bully shit though. That's the kind of stuff Trump himself would say. "Yeah, i'd have kicked your ass bro, yeah dude, totally!" Right wing folks like friggin Ted Nugent used to say that about Obama and it was just as cringeworthy then. I mean, there are plenty of ways to take Trump apart without resorting to "i'd have kicked his ass", especially considering that this country has a violence problem already.

You're not wrong, but I'm not sure that I care anymore, tbh.

[allegro]

That's straight bully shit though. That's the kind of stuff Trump himself would say. "Yeah, i'd have kicked your ass bro, yeah dude, totally!" Right wing folks like friggin Ted Nugent used to say that about Obama and it was just as cringeworthy then. I mean, there are plenty of ways to take Trump apart without resorting to "i'd have kicked his ass", especially considering that this country has a violence problem already.

The reason WHY people liked Biden for saying this is that it brought Biden back to his scrappy working class roots.

Which Trump doesn’t have.

Trump was born a millionaire. He’s lived in an ivory tower his entire life, has never known hard work or poverty. He’s never worried about money or about putting food on the table, and you can bet your whole paycheck the guy never got into a fight. He just assaults females, and rapes girls.

[Demogorgon]

The reason WHY people liked Biden for saying this is that it brought Biden back to his scrappy working class roots.

Which Trump doesn’t have.

Trump was born a millionaire. He’s lived in an ivory tower his entire life, has never known hard work or poverty. He’s never worried about money or about putting food on the table, and you can bet your whole paycheck the guy never got into a fight. He just assaults females, and rapes girls.

I get that, and i get the sentiments about Trump, but personally, i would really like to see a candidate who tries a little harder to be above that kind of thing. Sling mud, fine, let people know your opponent is awful for a lot of legitimate reasons, sure, but reducing your political battles to the threat of a fist fight should be beneath us as a country. Some third world countries have governments where official sessions devolve into chair throwing and mass brawls. The USA is supposed to be an example of civilized behavior, and for so many years, it's been sliding further and further away from that ideal. I would really, really love to see a candidate (and Congress, for that matter) work harder in both words and deeds to get back to that ideal.

[allegro]

I get that, and i get the sentiments about Trump, but personally, i would really like to see a candidate who tries a little harder to be above that kind of thing. Sling mud, fine, let people know your opponent is awful for a lot of legitimate reasons, sure, but reducing your political battles to the threat of a fist fight should be beneath us as a country. Some third world countries have governments where official sessions devolve into chair throwing and mass brawls. The USA is supposed to be an example of civilized behavior, and for so many years, it's been sliding further and further away from that ideal. I would really, really love to see a candidate (and Congress, for that matter) work harder in both words and deeds to get back to that ideal.

I doubt Biden is going to do it, again; he’s already done it once. That lives in infamy.

But us being an example of civilized behavior has already been shot to hell by this low-class clown in the office right now.

I think Biden’s strength (above the other candidates) is that he already has warm relationships with a lot of world leaders. He’s on a first-name basis with many (most) of them.

Here’s Biden being stopped by the President of Armenia before Biden announced his candidacy:



Biden, in the last debate, was directly addressing Trump as “Mr. President.” He definitely has some plan in place.

Biden has always done terribly in debates. But Trump admitted that he had zero debate experience up until 2016, and he’s REALLY bad at it.

[sweeterthan]

Ugh. I'll vote for the democrat but I think it's total bullshit if its biden. Look at these amazing candidates. There's at least 5 that are better than him, maybe more.

[allegro]

Biden is popular because he’s viewed as Obama’s VP, the safe warm cozy reminder of how things were before things went to shit.

[Demogorgon]

Unfortunately or not, Biden really may be the only hope the House has of passing legislation. He's the most moderate of the bunch right now. The house is already struggling with it's progressives to get things passed (not even counting most of it getting shot down immediately by the Senate, but whatever). That progressive faction is growing though, and in another few years, it may have a much stronger voice, so... Biden would benefit them in the short term, but maybe not so much over time.

[allegro]

Unfortunately or not, Biden really may be the only hope the House has of passing legislation. He's the most moderate of the bunch right now. The house is already struggling with it's progressives to get things passed (not even counting most of it getting shot down immediately by the Senate, but whatever). That progressive faction is growing though, and in another few years, it may have a much stronger voice, so... Biden would benefit them in the short term, but maybe not so much over time.

If Biden chooses Stacey Abrams as his VP, I think he’ll be unbeatable.

Also, a LOT of Obama voters remember this moment (Trump hates it):

[Swykk]

Whatever it takes. If it’s Biden, I adamantly agree that’s not the first, second, or seventh best choice for America but if that’s who is chosen then I’ll back him in the election.

Defeating Trump is the most important thing. After that, we can see where we stand and go about repairing the country and fixing the damage done by this administration. I would love to see the left move towards democratic socialism (If we could just change the term. People see/hear “socialism” and lose their minds). An unregulated market with no checks and balances doesn’t work.

But let’s start with getting rid of Trump.

[versusreality]

I look at it like..if Biden wins, he may be a one term president, and we can elect another good if not better Democrat in the next cycle. a win win. but it all starts with a Democrat beating Trump...it NEEDS to be done.

[ltrandazzo]

And remember folks, if we don't take back the Senate, hold onto the House, and win down ballot races in our communities across the country, then it doesn't matter if we get Trump out of office. Adopt a Senate race near you and offer to phone bank and do other things if you can and especially if you're in close proximity to one.

[Swykk]

Oh I would love to see McConnell get defeated too but that seems unlikely so far.

I vote in my local elections but Indiana sucks and I’m in one of the 4 blue parts of the state. It doesn’t end up meaning much.

[allegro]

Oh I would love to see McConnell get defeated too but that seems unlikely so far.

Oh no it doesn’t.

[Sarah K]

Oops.

[versusreality]

Oops.

a big oops

sadly, I see this just being a piece of 24 hour news and then dropped. he'll also say something like "of course I'm not racist, I was the VP with Obama"

[allegro]

a big oops

sadly, I see this just being a piece of 24 hour news and then dropped. he'll also say something like "of course I'm not racist, I was the VP with Obama"

He’s not racist.

He’s an OLD GUY. The old guy brain doesn’t engage as well.

And that’s my biggest problem with these old guy candidates.

Bernie Sanders said pretty much the same thing.

“When you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto. You don’t know what it’s like to be poor.”

When he said it, he’d JUST been to Flint, MI, which is a ghetto containing both black and white people. (His words also seemingly equated all black people to poor people.)

Bernie isn’t racist; Bernie is an old guy. Sure, both Joe and Bernie are spry and physically able to handle the job. But intellectually, their judgment and their quick verbal capacity has slowed.

Bernie’s answer to systemic racism:

“What we will do is say, instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires, we are going to create millions of jobs for low-income kids so they’re not hanging out on street corners.”

Hanging out on street corners implies that black kids are in gangs. This isn’t a racist answer; it’s an answer from an old guy.

[Sarah K]

I think he's both.

[sweeterthan]

Whether he intended it to be racist or not, the comment he made definitely is. Maybe now the white women will vote for him?