Stubby Member
great pt, i think anyone would be hard pressed to name a band thats released more than 4/5 great albums. the problem with manson is his live show is a disgrace, i can tolerate a creative fall from grace - happens to everyone, but the complete mess his performance has turned into (going on a decade now) is inexcusable and sadly tarnishes all his past greatness.Originally Posted by imail724
Resident Asshole
A-FUCKING-MEN.....I saw him back in 2012 or 2013 (it was the show at the Roxy where JD came out to play with the band) and he was AWFUL. Then I just saw him again when Zombie came through town and again, his show fell short. The last good show I saw MM at was the Grand Olympic Auditorium in 2001 (it was filmed for the GGG DVD, you can see me in the end credits!) and ever since then he has progressively gotten worse and worse. Its sad to see the shell he has become of his former self.
At this point its almost like MM is just doing all of this for the paycheck and not the entertainment side of things....
Last edited by NotoriousTIMP; 09-26-2018 at 06:46 PM.
Active Member
I LOVE Portrait. First MM song I ever heard was Lunchbox (I think...or was it Dope Hat? Pretty sure it was Lunchbox first). Either way, I vividly remember sneaking out of the house to buy this from the used CD store a few miles away in my early teens, then sneaking out to the garage to listen to it. Fell in love with the whole album immediately.
In terms of sentimental value, POAAF will always be my favorite. But it's so drastically different from everything else that I have a very hard time even comparing it to something like ACSS, so I can't bring myself to say that it's better than / worse than any of the other albums.
grrr. woof.
a few posts above someone said “king kill 33” sounded like ministry’s “lava.”
holy shit. i’m no ministry fan, but that is just so ... shamelessly obvious.
edit: regarding poaaf — i like it, too. it’s cheesy af, like b-horror movie nonsense full of stuff meant to make your jaw drop (“cunt fucker”? oooh, i’m only 14, don’t let my mormon mom know i’m listening to such edgy filth from the god of fuck himself!). it’s like a silly cartoon, circus sound effects and all. and it works.
Last edited by kel; 09-26-2018 at 09:54 PM.
nindivinedebris
I got into Manson in 95, around the same time I got into NIN. Portrait and all the Spooky Kids stuff is great, and very original. I remember going to my local store to get ACS on the release day. Seeing him on MTV in 98 was mind blowing to a teenager who hadn't really been exposed to glam rock or Bowie or any of that stuff. It was such a 180 from ACS, and that's what really hooked me. Mechanical Animals will always be my favorite album of his. I'm glad that the only time I saw him live was on the first leg of that tour in November 98. I have to agree that Holy Wood is the last great album they did, it's his last great statement, and it came at a time when he was still quite relevant to mainstream society. I think @kleiner hit a very important point, that Target Audience sums up what Marilyn Manson has been all about from the beginning. Manson as a musical and social force thrived when there was something to rebel against and when he was made to be the scapegoat. After 2002, I think mainstream America stopped paying attention, and what he did and what he stood for wasn't all that shocking anymore. You could probably make a case that the Iraq war and America becoming more politically polarized due to the George W Bush presidency had a big effect on this. It was after that point in time that there seems to be a shift where musicians became politically conscious again in a way that hadn't been seen since the 80's and Reagan.
nindivinedebris
Wow, that's the sort of thing that would get you sued these days, it's that obvious.
Administrator
Don't even get started on the topic of Manson songs sounding like someone else's... I love Holy Wood as much as the next person, but it's full of rip offs.
Active Member
Manson has taken influences or parts from other people for years. It's a bigger list than some.might thing. Chorus to Dissociative being very similiar to part of Band On The Run, etc (great song though).
Stubby Member
Dissociative is a tribute to So Precious by James Hall from the album My Love, Sex and Spirit (1993). James Hall even came out and played Dissociative with the band during 2015, and even did his own acoustic cover of the Manson track on a recent EP.
Stubby Member
Wow... it's literally the same song.
Active Member
He also did a fairly decent cover of You Want Love by James Hall live and Hall would do it live with him. As much as MM over the years has definitely ... "borrowed" his fair share he's also been more willing to admit to his influences than a lot of people who've done the same over the years.
Stubby Member
For as much as musicians borrow from each other, Manson's never hidden his tributes and to be quite honest - usually does a better song. KK33 is a way cooler song than Ministry's Lava. Especially when Manson would do it live in the whole podium build up to Antichrist Superstar. Bowie's Fame, while a good song is kinda repetitive and I'd sooner listen to IDLTD. Same for Dope Show, and Fight Song while not Manson's best work is way cooler than Blur Song 2 lol. I remember lots of NIN fans trying to point to how Holy Wood was filled with TDS rip offs and stuff like that, but even if Manson is in the ballpark of another song, I usually find his songs to be strong on their own.
I think as long as an artist is honest about their inspirations, I don't care. It's the artists who rip off another artist and try to call it their own. I mean, The Fight Song vs Saliva's Survival of the Sickest? At least try to take your inspiration and spin it on it's head a bit hahaha. And as for James Hall, I think it shows a lot when the artist Manson was inspired by is fully behind him. To be honest, a lot of Manson fans probably went back and checked James Hall out BECAUSE of Manson. And him covering a Manson song just brings it full circle. Seems like a mutual respect and fan of each other's artistry.
Hairy Member
I’ve enjoyed every album of his enough to justify its existence, even at his worst I usually find at least half of the album to listen to multiple times. I don’t get the hate for Born Villain, I still think it’s his best since Golden Age. It’s just sad what’s happened to him as a man. In his prime he scared the shit out of me at Ozzfest 97, but then I started listening in Spring ‘98 with ACS-SLC-Portrait & I knew I was hooked for life. He was the clear highlight at Ozzfest 2001, awesome show. That was the last time I saw him. Every video I’ve seen since maybe 2004 he has looked worse & worse. Hoping he can pull it together before it’s too late.
Cubby NIИtastic
I'm rediscovering Eat Me, Drink Me right now and it's a hell of a lot better than it has any business being. I'm looking at the setlist from the Detroit show towards the end of that tour and I'm shocked that Ours was the opening act. I have no idea why I wasn't there, but I assumed I had already hopped off that train.
I see he already lost faith in that album by that point in the tour and scaled it back to just 2 songs. Nothing's really changed with him lol
Stubby Member
it would take arguably the greatest career renaissance of all time.....it aint happenin'
Banned
All wayward Manson fans who are upset he no longer sounds like his old self should just check out Gary Numan. Numan sounds more like Manson than Manson does/or ever did post 97
Throbbing Member
Ours?! Wow... They were little shitheels at the Manson show I went to in 2008. They were so antagonistic before their set even started. I didn't think they were still around.
she/her/hers
i still love the first Ours album but i saw them open for Circa Survive in, like...2008 or something and they SUUUUUUCKED.
Dis-member
Not sure if that’s a compliment to Gary Numan?...
I saw that fairly recent Gary Numan clip with him on stage with NIN. He sounded terrible.
Banned
It doesn’t have to be a career renaissance, just a personal one.
Active Member
BV is one of his weaker efforts, but still a solid 3/5. Unlike say Sabbath, Purple, KISS, etc. MM never released one truly terrible album, imho.
Banned
Every Manson fan I know cries at how he doesnt sound like he did during the ACSS era which is also the only Manson album I can tolerate....Numans post mid 90s work is in that same vein, very industrial etc.....So it was a compliment to Numan lol
Active Member
Yeah, have to begrudgingly admit that. Me and my mrs are Manson fundamentalists now - we won't have anything after 1999 played in the house, we just pretend he became a recluse and was never seen again lol. But, I have to admit there is always a few songs on every album that are catchy, and he's never released a full on cold lake/st anger disgrace
Down, but not out.
I think this is exactly why I keep coming back for more. I actually thought it was over for me when Eat Me, Drink Me and The High End of Low came out though, but as time passed, and with even more albums along the way, The High End of Low, The Pale Emperor and Heaven Upside Down are my top favorite 3 records as far as "newer" Marilyn Manson goes.
-This is absolutely not to say anything bad about those other bands either, as I'm well aware as to how and why Marilyn Manson turned to shit to so many fans/ex-fans.-
I've accepted that it has come and gone, but at the same time, I can also admit that it's easy for me to say as somebody that was very satisfied with Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood and The Golden Age of Grotesque.
I'm not going to deny it either though. Those really were the days, like captured lightning in a bottle, and Antichrist Super Star and Mechanical Animals were the best in their day, and it's easy to see why they're so loved even until now. They've always been my top 2 favorite Marilyn Manson records.
Last edited by Halo Infinity; 10-16-2018 at 08:04 PM.
Matador de Froot Loops
"The High End of Low" is a shit sandwich
Active Member
I thought "Leave a Scar" was a standout. Overall, another 3/5 decent but otherwise unremarkable album.
Resident Asshole
I still feel this way about EMDM....I just cant get behind it at all
The Virus Inside
Agree with this one. EMDM is hands down his worst record, for me. I actually thoroughly enjoy the high end of low.
Matador de Froot Loops
I consider both "THEOL" and "Eat Me Drink Me", among his worst.
I know EMDM has some fans around here, but i don't get that record, it's just "Hot Topic Manson" by the numbers, songs are pretty lame compared to the "Portrait-Holy Wood" era...
And i can't get into "The High End of Low" either, most generic, bland, forgetable songs ever; "Wow" has to be one of the worst songs in his catalog...
Active Member
HEOL has some pretty good songs but a lot of garbage too, and the whole thing is just sloppy. EMDM just sucks. Definitely my 2 least favorite records.
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