Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[elevenism]

NOBODY is proposing door-to-door confiscation. I NEVER proposed that. I have friends and relatives who own these guns. I’ve held them, myself! They’re like a stupid toy, I don’t grok the fascination.

My BROTHER HAS AN AK!!

Confiscation wasn’t part of the ban in 1994!!

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...03hr4296rh.pdf

Read the fucking law!!

This doom and gloom “lie back and let them fuck us, there’s nothing we can do” is defeatist bullshit to which I do not subscribe.

The Senate has not had enough of a majority to make these changes, the Republicans are using this as a way to GET ELECTED as well as collect MILLIONS in donations.

It’s only now that many REPUBLICANS are again saying ENOUGH. Bipartisanship is what helped push the FIRST ban through.

REAGAN supported it!!

YOUNG PEOPLE are going to SAVE this country. They’ve had ENOUGH of this bullshit.

OBAMA promised to enshrine Roe into law on day one. Then, he sort of like...didn't?
They could have passed whatever the fuck they wanted with a filibuster proof majority, were it brought to the floor.

Young people. Yes. Someday.

I JUST said I agreed with pretty much everything you said.

The problem is twofold: the best we can do is try to vote Ted Cruz and his ilk out of office.

The other problem is that THESE GUNS ARE EVERYWHERE. No confiscation, well...that's what I mean. This shit won't change in our lifetimes.

Also, the party that seems to be the most motivated ain't the one concerned about gun laws.

Politics is about power. That's all 99% of them care about.
Also, bipartisanship is OVER. Note that the only moderate lawmakers are the most hated by their own parties.

I'm not sitting back and letting anyone fuck me. I tried to organize a local left wing group with the 9 other people in my county who didn't vote for trump.

I email my house rep and senators constantly.

I went and talked with Beto when he came to a nearby town.

I'M just being realistic.

This is America, home of the gun.

[allegro]

OBAMA promised to enshrine Roe into law on day one. Then, he sort of like...didn't?
They could have passed whatever the fuck they wanted with a filibuster proof majority, were it brought to the floor.

In 2007, Obama said that he’d sign the Freedom of Choice Act.

Look what happened to that in Congress. That wasn’t Obama’s fault. It became less of a priority because there were other priorities that Congress immediately focused on (Lily Ledbetter, Souter retirement, etc.)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Choice_Act

Bipartisanship is back when the young people take over, expect change.

That is, so long as Trump doesn’t take over and stay there, by removing Presidential term limits and pretty much making the U.S. the same as Russia and China. Which is entirely possible. Then, it’s all over.

Re no confiscation: Nothing will ELIMINATE gun violence. No law eliminates ANY crime. Murder laws don’t eliminate murders. Robbery laws don’t eliminate robberies. Etc. etc. But there is EVIDENCE that stricter gun laws reduce the number of shootings. All laws are deterrents.

People point at Chicago. One of the biggest problems in Chicago is that Gary Indiana is REALLY close to Chicago. Tons of guns come into Chicago via Indiana. That’s a big problem; Indiana’s guns end up killing Chicagoans.

[Swykk]

Can confirm Indiana’s super lax gun laws and that Gary serves as a gun supplier to Chicago.

[elevenism]

In 2007, Obama said that he’d sign the Freedom of Choice Act.

Look what happened to that in Congress. That wasn’t Obama’s fault...

Ok, it wasn't Obama's fault ENTIRELY.

But it was GODDAMN sure the fault of the Democratic party. (for the record, that doesn't mean I'm a republican. I'm more of a Left Libertarian/Social Utopianist).

And I'm becoming cynical and jaded in my forties.
To ME, a lot of the time, it would appear that things COULD get done, but they don't.
If they DID, well, what would you run on next time?

ANYWAY:

It appears that there may be an emergency special legislative session in Texas on guns.

We've got some badass leftist lawmakers in this ALMOST purple state: last year, the dems didn't show up for the republicans special "fuck people out of voting" session.

[allegro]

Ok, it wasn't Obama's fault ENTIRELY.

But it was GODDAMN sure the fault of the Democratic party.

Not every Democrat in Congress is totally pro-Choice.

A HUGE number of Democrats back then were NOT pro-choice.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallp...ld-has-changed

[Jinsai]

I think a lot of the blame behind why we can't get anything done is because we're still struggling to tell people like this (in the video below) to shut the fuck up and sit down already. I know it sounds dumb, but in some ways it really is unfortunately this stupid. Guns are part of an identity for a lot of people in this country. The fetishizing and extreme hobby BS... That's really what I think about when people ask "what is different about America compared to other countries where guns are legal and this shit doesn't happen?"

It's because this sort of shit doesn't happen anywhere else either.

[elevenism]

....

[allegro]

I think a lot of the blame behind why we can't get anything done is because we're still struggling to tell people like this (in the video below) to shut the fuck up and sit down already. I know it sounds dumb, but in some ways it really is unfortunately this stupid. Guns are part of an identity for a lot of people in this country for a lot of people. The fetishizing and extreme hobby BS... That's really what I think about when people ask "what is different about America compared to other countries where guns are legal and this shit doesn't happen?"

^^^ This. Deliberate provocation at a fucking Chili’s. Private companies don’t have to give you 2nd Amendment rights.

It’s grown to this level. And if you studied the ROOTS of it?

You’d find rampant hardcore racism.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/...g-of-whiteness

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/10021...-2nd-amendment

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/bla...bsn-originals/

[elevenism]

So did you guys see the videos I posted on the last page, of Ted Cruz being harassed at a restaurant?


Furthermore, there was a fine video of a Texas senator raising hell during Abbott's masturbation segmwnt?

[elevenism]

6 people shot in Chattanooga, and 7 shot with one confirmed dead in Tulsa.

Maybe we WILL get some bipartisanship going. God knows the body count should be high enough over the past week or whatever it is.
Inshalla.

Meanwhile, here's a badass clip of Greg Abbot getting booed and heckled Sunday afternoon, in Uvalde.



Edit: @allegro I wasn't talking about hunting wild boars for fun.
I don't hunt.

I was referring to the farmers who work our family's land having the ability to get rid of the packs of Middle Earth looking beasts that come and destroy our crops down here.
Even Beto is down for ARs for THAT shit.

[allegro]

@elevenism : There are literally millions of feral wild hogs. Farmers can hire professionals to shoot them.

There can be special professional licenses for them.

[elevenism]

@elevenism: There are literally millions of feral wild hogs. Farmers can hire professionals to shoot them.

There can be special professional licenses for them.

Professional licenses for the farmers; great.
We don't need to hire anyone else.

But yeah, that's one of the ONLY instances in which I think battlefield weapons should be sold.

Those fuckers keep coming if you shoot them with a handgun or even a shotgun, and they come in packs.
I saw it when I was a kid, and yeah...it's frightening.

[elevenism]

Not every Democrat in Congress is totally pro-Choice.

A HUGE number of Democrats back then were NOT pro-choice.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallp...ld-has-changed

Yeah and Pelosi and the DNC are 100% supporting THE LAST pro life dem congressman, Henry Cuellar, IN THE WAKE of the impending end of Roe and Casey.

And I'm supposed to support THAT shit? As a good party member or whatever?

Don't you see what I see? How are you LESS cynical than I am?

I'll keep voting blue, but more and more, politics in the US looks like a bunch of psychopaths vying for power and adulation.

That, and corporate oligarchy. Idk. I've been talking about all of this, here, for going on 10 years.

[BRoswell]

Maybe we WILL get some bipartisanship going. God knows the body count should be high enough over the past week or whatever it is.

I doubt it. People always talk a good game after these events happen, but then it fades into the news cycle and we're back to square one.

[thelastdisciple]

An oldie but a goodie in terms of commentary on U.S. gun culture

[elevenism]

In 2007, Obama said that he’d sign the Freedom of Choice Act.

Look what happened to that in Congress. That wasn’t Obama’s fault. It became less of a priority because there were other priorities that Congress immediately focused on (Lily Ledbetter, Souter retirement, etc.)

Yep. Obama said "the first thing i'll do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice act."

I was as into politics then as I am now.

I don't think ANYTHING should have taken precedence over that, except.maybe more meaningful gun law reform. I mean, fuck yeah, fair pay is important, as is SCOTUS, but so are promises to planned parenthood and, you know, what we're discussing in this thread.
AND WE HAD THE FUCKING VOTES.

I LOVE Obama, but he and the dems dropped the ball.

[allegro]

Yep. Obama said "the first thing i'll do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice act."

I was as into politics then as I am now.

I don't think ANYTHING should have taken precedence over that, except.maybe more meaningful gun law reform. I mean, fuck yeah, fair pay is important, as is SCOTUS, but so are promises to planned parenthood and, you know, what we're discussing in this thread.
AND WE HAD THE FUCKING VOTES.

I LOVE Obama, but he and the dems dropped the ball.

I linked what happened to that bill Obama referenced. It died in committee. Presidents can’t control what Congress does. There was a LOT going on, considering a BLACK DUDE had just moved into the WHITE House.

Congress Dems decided that healthcare reform was the number one focus.

Rahm Emmanuel told Obama and Congress that IMMIGRATION REFORM should be the first thing Congress tackles. (Ultimately, Congress did but it failed and the situation became dire and Obama issued the DACA EO which wasn’t totally Constitutional but has at least stalled dire consequences for now.)

Some in Congress believed that CLIMATE should be the first focus.

Others believed gay marriage was issue number one.

All of those are very important.

But in 2008 to maybe 2014? There’s NO WAY Dems could have gotten enough Dems in Congress to vote to codify Roe. No, they didn’t have the votes. The section of the original ACA that paid for abortion? Many Democrats voted AGAINST that. Because they were anti-abortion.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallp...ld-has-changed

When Obama took office, there were scores of Democrats in Congress who were anti-abortion and who regularly voted with the Republicans on abortion-related matters — especially abortion funding.

The most visible example in recent years came on Nov. 7, 2009, during floor consideration of the bill that would become the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 (better known as Obamacare).

The Democrats' anti-abortion faction then was led by Michigan Rep. Bart Stupak. After weeks of negotiating with House leaders and the White House, Stupak still insisted on a separate roll call vote regarding the impact the bill would have on abortion. He wanted it to be explicit that nothing in the new law would pay for abortions or pay for health insurance plans that covered abortions.

It was a sticky issue, and if not resolved it threatened to deny the House leaders and the Obama administration the health care law that was within their grasp.

When Stupak's amendment came to the floor, every one of the 176 Republicans in the chamber voted for it. But that would not have been enough to adopt the amendment. The amendment only prevailed because 64 Democrats voted for it, almost exactly one-quarter of what was then Speaker Nancy Pelosi's majority.

Of those 64 Democrats casting anti-abortion votes that day, only 12 remain in the House today.

Per Wiki:

On March 21, 2010, Stupak made a deal with Obama whereby he and his bloc of Democrats would vote for the final bill [Affordable Care Act] if Obama signed an executive order barring federal funding of abortion under the bill. The deal resulted in the final bill being passed in the House by a vote of 219–212. The deal was condemned by both advocates and opponents of abortion rights.

Democrat Bart Stupak: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_Stupak

One of many “Stop Stupak” rallies in 2009:




Many Democrats in Congress back then didn’t even believe in gay marriage. Dems had moved pretty far right for decades. There is STILL a fairly large Dem voting bloc that’s conservative.

Here’s how much control the Republicans have in Congress, because nobody has voted in enough liberal or progressive Dems to override the 2A supporting Republicans:

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/the...l-legislation/

Domestic gun violence prevention bills

In 2014, Senate Republicans defeated a bill that would have funded states’ efforts to keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers and a law that would have banned those under temporary restraining orders from buying or possessing guns.

Home-printed gun scrutiny

That same year, 2014, the Republican-controlled House stopped a proposal that would have required serial numbers on homemade guns, such as those made with 3D printers; the bill never even got out of committee.

Keeping guns away from terrorists

In 2015, the Republican-led Senate defeated a bill that would have banned people on a federal terrorism watch list from buying firearms. Opponents of the “no fly, no buy” bill noted the many errors and inconsistencies on the watch list.

Gun trafficking as a federal crime

In 2015 and 2021, Democrats proposed making gun trafficking a federal crime and increased penalties for those who buy guns for felons and others prohibited from owning them, known as “straw buyers.” None of the proposals passed.

Expanding background checks

In 2015 and 2016, after mass shootings in San Bernardino, Calif., and at the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, Fla, Democrats proposed applying background checks to gun shows and private sales, where many gun transactions happen without scrutiny. All failed, as did weaker measures proposed by Republicans. A similar bill on gun shows also failed in 2017, and several subsequent proposals have gone nowhere against NRA opposition.

Record reporting improvements

After a shooter killed 26 at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, in 2017, with guns he was able to buy in spite of a domestic violence conviction, even the NRA backed a set of minor improvements to the reporting of criminal and mental health records to the background check system. The changes passed Congress as part of a larger spending bill signed into law by President Trump.

”Smart gun” requirements

A bill introduced by Democrats in 2017, after the mass shooting at a country music festival in Las Vegas, would have required gun manufacturers to equip their product with available technologies ensuring that only the proper owner could fire the gun. This would keep children and other family members from firing them as well as render them useless if stolen. It failed.

[Swykk]

@elevenism There will never be bipartisanship again. That’s dead. It died when the right stopped following the rules, backed a con man (before that stopped a recount that as a result gave W the presidency) tried to overturn a fair election, acted like racist homophobic hypocrites, gerrymandered and packed the courts, etc.

Their goal is to end democracy and have minority rule. They’re attacking education because they know if you’re educated and not filthy rich, you probably won’t vote Republican.

[cdm]

There will never be bipartisanship again. That’s dead.

It's so maddening to see the Dem party not acknowledge this and operate accordingly. And fuck decorum. Pass legislation that helps the majority of people and run on that record? Nah, fuck it, let's try to fluff these assholes in the name of bipartisanship.

[allegate]

Boy arrested after staff find gun at Skyview, says Clark County Sheriff’s Office(Boy that is an unfortunate name: Jessica Prokop)

Student with handgun arrested at Skyview High School
It's the second time in a week that a Clark County student has brought a firearm to a school campus.

Deputies arrest male student for reportedly bringing gun to Skyview High School

Teen arrested for bringing gun to Skyview High School in Vancouver

After last week I don't believe any of the initial stories about this, especially since that last article says both of these:

Investigators say school employees spotted the firearm in his jacket.

In a statement, Vancouver Public Schools says it is thankful to the person who reported the incident so it could act quickly. And while there is no ongoing threat, there will be additional security at school Wednesday.

Oh, right, why do I care? This is the school my son goes to.

I don't understand why there aren't more suits against the parents. Go for the manufacturer? I mean sure this is America you can sue anyone. But the parents should be the first place to go. Absolutely destroy them so that eventually parents realize they need to keep a better hold on the guns and a better understanding of their children. "He had his reasons"? even given possible translation errors that's not a great look, hews really close to knowing something you're not sharing.

speaking of not sharing! look at that, segued like a pro.

Uvalde police forces no longer cooperating with school shooting probe, source tells ABC News

The police departments serving both Uvalde, Texas, and the town's school district are no longer cooperating with a state-level investigation into law enforcement's response to the Robb Elementary School massacre, a source told ABC News Tuesday.

Uvalde Police Department and Uvalde ISD police's decision to stop cooperating was made shortly after the Texas Department of Public Service Director Col. Steven McCraw called the delayed police entry into the classroom where 19 children and two teachers were shot to death as "the wrong decision."

delivered very quietly:

The Texas Department of Public Safety is also correcting previous comments it made stating that a teacher had left a door propped open that the gunman used to enter the school prior to the shooting.

Oh so it's not the teacher's fault, weird.

[ickyvicky]

I don't understand why there aren't more suits against the parents. Go for the manufacturer? I mean sure this is America you can sue anyone. But the parents should be the first place to go. Absolutely destroy them so that eventually parents realize they need to keep a better hold on the guns and a better understanding of their children. "He had his reasons"? even given possible translation errors that's not a great look, hews really close to knowing something you're not sharing.

Doesn't help when they claim shit like "They didn't counsel him to do it" like this: https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/19/us/et...ing/index.html

[elevenism]

...This shit won't change in our lifetimes...

Politics is about power. That's all 99% of them care about.
Also, bipartisanship is OVER...


I'M just being realistic.

(warning: insanity level of poster=CONTINUES to quote itself)

Well, yeah, @Swykk ...you said "there will never be bipartisanship again." I said that the other day, or at least @elevenism did, as evidenced by the above quote.
They just used fewer words and more capitalization.

And then someone i respect, here, in this thread, said bipartisanship would return in a future we might live to see

Later, i caught a few news reports that suggested the possibility of like an INCH of bipartisanship.

I feel like i tend to be a bit of a doomsayer around here, so i was just trying to be HALFWAY positive for once.

[elevenism]

@allegro well, fuck me i guess, wrt to the Obama admin having had the votes to codify Roe.
I guess that's the new thing i learned today.
Not only did it LOOK that way to me at the time, i've heard SO many talking heads make that claim over the years, and the argument has been making the rounds again, as of late.
But now that i've had time to read everything you presented, here, along with a recent USA TODAY piece i can see that the claim is apparently false.

I STILL think both parties hold on to certain things they COULD accomplish, so as to use them as future campaign promises, though.

[allegate]

Investors call for human rights report at gunmaker Sturm Ruger

A majority of shareholders of gunmaker Sturm Ruger & Co voted in favor of a shareholder resolution calling for a human rights impact report, executives said on Wednesday.

The company also said all director nominees were elected and that investors approved its auditor and executive pay at its annual shareholder meeting, which was webcast.

The passage of the shareholder resolution marked a setback for the Southport, Connecticut-based company, which had opposed the measure. It came after mass shootings in May, including one in Uvalde, Texas where a teenage gunman killed 19 schoolchildren and two teachers, that reopened a long-running U.S. debate over gun control.

impressive, but this concerns me:

After the vote, Sturm Ruger Chief Executive Christopher Killoy said he expects the board will now consider how best to respond, and that the company would give a final voting tally in coming days.

Killoy referred to proponents of the measure as "anti-gun activists" and said its passage was "largely due to the support of institutional shareholders, many of whom declined to even speak with us, and others who blindly followed the guidance of ISS (Institutional Shareholder Services) or Glass Lewis."

Both top proxy advisers had recommended investors vote for the resolution.

as a publicly-held company, can they not do what the shareholders asked them to? Also why are you speaking about your investors like this? That's not a good look, I feel.

[Swykk]

@elevenism I wasn’t trying to put you down at all.

[BRoswell]

At least 3 people were killed in a Tulsa, Oklahoma, hospital campus shooting, police say

[ickyvicky]

The superintendent of the school district my husband used to work in just sent an email out to everyone that one of the students posted an image of themselves on social media holding a gun. The police were immediately called, and they interviewed the child and the family and they posed not to be a threat and that the gun shown was fake. The student is barred from entering the school for the time being.

What the fuck is wrong with these kids?!

[allegate]

My son said that the hallways were noticeably empty yesterday and that almost all of his teachers - orchestra was the exception, I wonder why (lol) - said the kids should stay home for the foreseeable future. Not explicitly because of the gun situation but that's because they are probably barred from saying that.

[cdm]

What the fuck is wrong with these kids?!

Learned behavior.

[allegate]

16-year-old arrested after police received tip he was recruiting students for a mass shooting at a California high school
by Taylor Romine CNN


A 16-year-old boy was arrested this week after police learned he was allegedly recruiting students to carry out a mass shooting at a high school in Berkeley, California, authorities said Wednesday.


Police received a tip on May 21 of the teen’s alleged plot targeting Berkeley High School, which also included a possible bombing, and obtained a search warrant for his home, Berkeley Police said in a statement.


The search turned up parts to explosives and assault rifles as well as several knives and electronic items that could be used to create weapons, police said.


Authorities also prepared a mental health response through the city’s Mobile Crisis Team to evaluate the teen.


He turned himself in Monday, police said, and was arrested on suspicion of possessing destructive device materials and threatening to commit a crime which will result in death or great bodily injury.


The Alameda County District Attorney’s Office declined to comment because the person arrested is a juvenile.


in a letter to the school community, Berkeley Unified School District Superintendent Brent Stephens thanked those who came forward to report the alleged threat.


“Speaking up in this instance allowed for the police to intervene in advance of any harm occurring,” Stephens wrote.


He said the school had been in contact with the police department since the onset of the investigation, which is ongoing.


CNN’s Aya Elamroussi contributed to this report.

I wonder if the kids are doing some self-policing here since now they see that the cops are probably going to make a situation worse instead of better.

But also:

Forget good guy with a gun. Cars are what we really need to stop the bullets, apparently.


https://www.click2houston.com/news/l...hwest-houston/

HOUSTON – A suspect who was engaged in a shootout with a man he was attempting to rob was struck and killed by a vehicle driven by an innocent woman who was trying to get herself and a child out of harm’s way, according to Houston police.


The ironic chain of events unfolded in a gas station and convenience store parking lot in the 3900 block of Fondren at Westpark


According to HPD Lt. Larry Crowson, around 3:30 p.m. Thursday, a man and a woman were meeting up with another man for a transaction based on something possibly being sold from an online platform.


While they were discussing what preliminary information suggests appears to be a possible sale, the suspect pulled out a gun and attempted to rob the two in the vehicle.


The man inside the car was also armed, and pulled out his gun. The two men then began shooting at each other.


Another woman, who had nothing to do with the transaction, was in a separate car with a child during the shootout. Frightened, she accelerated in an attempt to dodge the flying bullets, police said.


That is when she accidentally struck the suspect who was running across the parking lot. The suspect was pinned beneath her vehicle and died.


“There was a female that was in her car, I believe she had a child in the car, she was extremely scared and accelerated at a high rate of speed to get out of the parking lot to avoid the shootout and she struck the suspect, and he’s under the car here behind me,” Crowson explained at the scene.


It was not known if the woman or child sustained any physical injuries.


Police said the man who was being robbed was shot in the arm. He was taken to the hospital and was expected to survive. Police did not say if the woman who was riding with him was hurt.