Throbbing Member
None of those bands really considered themselves to be "grunge" anyway. They were just doing more or less what had been done since the 80's among post punk/new wave bands. Some with more "punk" and some with more "metal" influences.
Pearl Jam's Talking Heads influence is pretty obvious for example...
Last edited by hobochic; 05-24-2012 at 04:00 PM.
Bite me
I don't know about PJ's later albums, but I hear zero Talking Heads in "Ten."
"Ten" is classic 70s riff guitar band with lush production. Mike stole the guitar solo on "Alive" from Ace Frehley in Kiss's "She" and Ace Frehley stole that same guitar solo from the Doors' "Five To One." There's an underlying sonic theme that's reminiscent of the Who's "Quadrophenia." But, overall, on "Ten," at least, it's not really totally a ripoff of anything else, and it was the antithesis of Grunge which was fuzz-toned garage rock (melodic MC5). Most Grunge bands cite Flipper as their biggest influence.
Last edited by allegro; 05-24-2012 at 07:42 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
I think what bothers me most about Pearl Jam is Eddie Vedder's "underbite rock" style of singing. It's not his fault that he paved the way for Creed with that bullshit, but it still annoys the hell out of me to listen to it. He dropped it a little w/ Vitology, so maybe that's why I prefer that album.
Bite me
I personally RELATE to a lot on "Ten" and personally identified with it so closely, the whole latchkey kid thing, and the music was so good, for me, that it all just blew me away; the message, alone, isn't enough for me, obviously, but all of the musicianship, the cohesiveness, the lyrics and theme, I got so excited about it after not having been excited about music in SUCH a long time.Originally Posted by Jinsai
i don't listen to much PJ after "Ten" but I think Vedder has an unbelievably strong and instantly recognizable voice. Whomever imitates that or exploits it, later, isn't Vedder's fault, anymore than some jackasses wearing Bob Marley t-Shirts decrease the value of Marley's music.
http://gozie.com/video/39GAH46A1YX3/...masters-of-war
Last edited by allegro; 05-25-2012 at 07:42 PM.
Throbbing Member
Echo and the Bunnymen were in my opinion better than both Pearl Jam and U2. Far more moving and innovative. Their music could enduce total euphoria.
They could have been the biggest group in the world. Band had no work ethic though. Crocodiles (1980) or Heaven Up Here (1981) either one were my generations Ten i guess. Emotional classic rock.
They were THE most important band for a couple of years.
There was a real rivalry between U2 and The Bunnymen in 1982 or 83. Similar to the one echoed later with Pearl Jam and Nirvana.
Nobody on earth would have imagined U2 would eventually become SO huge at the time. That was the Bunnymens job
Can hear a real Jim Morrison influence in Ian Mculloch's voice.
They were a classic rock band attached to the post punk scene of the time.
This band should never have reformed either totally ruined their legacy.
Bite me
I *totally* agree that Echo and the Bunnymen are highly underrated. I don't agree that they are in the same genre as U2 or whatever, but, still, great band, good songwriting, great live shows.
Ditto for the Psychedelic Furs.
desperately chilled
i love both of those bands. i was barely in existence when the bunnymen were putting out their best stuff (first four records are flawless) but i can see where the bunnymen might have been outsiders of sorts. sure, they came from the same post-punk sort of ethics (post-sex pistols, gloomy guitar pop), but where most bands looked to bowie/iggy, the bunnymen always went more for the doors/beatles side of things. the long winded live arrangements with 8 minute breakdowns support that for sure, though i think ian's voice is completely shot at this point, nowhere near the same majesty. the band is still on fire, tight and precise, but i feel that without ian's soaring vocals, it's time to hang it up... but you know... this is the tour for the money...
the furs are a HUGE influence to me as a bass player. the first record is just perfect. i like all of their records (book of days is underrated as hell, and was the first one i heard/loved) though i could do without most of midnight to midnight.
Matador de Froot Loops
I do think ETBM are underrated, the only thing that bothers me about them is the fact that they are repetitive, obviously all bands have recurrent tricks, but they got stuck in the same sound while U2 became "electric", so i think that was the main problem.Echo and the Bunnymen were in my opinion better than both Pearl Jam and U2. Far more moving and innovative. Their music could enduce total euphoria.
They could have been the biggest group in the world. Band had no work ethic though. Crocodiles (1980) or Heaven Up Here (1981) either one were my generations Ten i guess. Emotional classic rock.
They were THE most important band for a couple of years.
There was a real rivalry between U2 and The Bunnymen in 1982 or 83. Similar to the one echoed later with Pearl Jam and Nirvana.
Nobody on earth would have imagined U2 would eventually become SO huge at the time. That was the Bunnymens job
Can hear a real Jim Morrison influence in Ian Mculloch's voice.
They were a classic rock band attached to the post punk scene of the time.
This band should never have reformed either totally ruined their legacy.
But it is clear that Ian Mculloch is a much better frontman than bono and his voice had a clear similarity with Jim Morrison, i think they should have taken more risks and maybe we would be talking about them as a huge mainstream band, but part of their appeal (in my opinion) is the fact that they never "made it", their Lyrics are so artsy and special that i would almost hate to listen to them on the radio everyday, they're a special band and they should always keep that spot.
Active Member
Vitalogy is the only PJ album I loved. The first two are OK for glossy, emotional, earnest hard rock, but I find them a little cringeworthy today. Jeremy sounds almost comical in its earnest overstatement. JEREMY'S SPOKE IN. IIIIIIIII-N CLASS TODAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.
It took Kurt Cobain's suicide to really squeeze a great record out of PJ (Vitalogy), one that was emotional, weird, spooky, arty, experimental, and rocked hard. After that they entered and settled in a kind of Springsteenian blandness I don't dig at all.
Bite me
back on topic:
Bob Marley's "Three Little Birds" is one of the best songs ever written
tempus est umbra in mente
regarding Pearl Jam, I have to admit that when Ten came out, I was eleven years old, and I loved the hell out of it. Back then, Vedder's voice didn't bother the living shit out of me.
When I hear his voice on Ten now it drives me up the wall. I can still get into Vitalogy and some tracks on Vs, but I can't stand that first album anymore. Maybe it also has to do with the fact that I probably overplayed it a bit when I was a kid, and maybe the whole "underbite rock vocal" thing was borrowed by shitty bands and abused to a degree that I can't help but recognize now. I really don't know. It just feels incredibly transparent to me now, but I still think Vitalogy is a fascinating album.
Active Member
Mark Arm's take on this on Metal Evolution was hilarious regarding "underbite rock".
Active Member
Deadsy bums me out. I really liked the first album/s. But the second one was a major letdown, and when I saw them live it was horrible. He basically sabotaged his own career.
I think it boils down to the fact that Elijah is a talented guy but also a spoiled rich Hollywood brat with no motivation.
Active Member
Didn't they sing that "key to the Gremacy park" song?
Bite me
I agree, "The Dirt" was hilarious, loved it. Love Nikki Sixx. Hate Vince. Do I own own one Crüe record? No. And remember that genre included Cinderella, Ratt, White Snake, Poison, Quiet Riot, ad nauseum.
Who's Jack Johnson?
Active Member
Steel Panther: not funny, just garbage. "Ironic" 80s hair metal=still 80s hair metal.
FATUM NOS IUNGET
I don't find this controversial in any sense of the word lol. I dare anyone with good taste in music to find something redeeming with these bozos.
Active Member
The problem is that in the metal scene the 80s are cool again and bands are falling over one another to sound like 80s metal in some way, whether it be thrash, glam, or nwobhm. The 80s revival is the mainstream in metal today.
Active Member
I have no problem with pearl jam selling their shows. its smart business. they obviously aren't making billions off of their albums anymore. if theres a market for it, go for it. its called being in business.
It's their music. its their right to do whatever the hell they want with it.
Active Member
I agree. They are not forcing people to buy stuff. It is not Pearl Jam's fault that some people have this weird hoarding instinct to buy every single thing that a band has even brushed past... in triplicate.
Active Member
I can't say I hate the guy either. But at the same time, I'll never go out of my way to hear his music, ever. He did have one catchy song though.
And I absolutely despise Ozzy. I tried to get into him. Everyone thinks I'm crazy. But I think he's garbage. I like a few Sabbath songs, but that's about it. His solo stuff is vomit inducing. I won't even touch upon Dio.
Throbbing Member
jolly green giants, shitty beatles.
Active Member
Shitty Beatles are they any good?
Stubby Member
Nah. They suck.
And if you go to the Oxford English Dictionary and look up "music that's aged badly", you'll see a huge picture of the Sex Pistols. True story.
Throbbing Member
Agreed. 80s Hair Metal is terrible. The other stuff in the 80s was pretty bad ass IMO.
Throbbing Member
Joni Mitchell is the greatest female singer-songwriter of all time, and Blue is NOT her best album (though it's good).
tempus est umbra in mente
I grew up in the 80s, and I'm going to say that I don't like Michael Jackson. Billy Jean and Smooth Criminal are incredible songs, maybe some of the best basslines ever written in pop music, but.... Fuck the posthumous canonization.
Also, while I'm here, I'm watching Donovan's acceptance "poem" at the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony again, and nothing I've heard from him forgives how shitty and pretentious this is.
Actually, fuck it, Season of the Witch is a shitty song, and so is Mellow Yellow. Fuck you Donovan. Thanks for inspiring John Mellencamp asshole.
Last edited by Jinsai; 05-29-2012 at 02:52 AM.
Throbbing Member
Yes. This. I never heard as much about Michael Jackson as after he melted into Wacko Jacko permanently. And I hate those teary songs he made, like 'Heal the World' or 'Earth Song'. He's a tragic figure, and sure some of his music is really great, but you'd think he was Mozart the way people went on and on and ON about him after he died.
However, the entire oeuvre of Donovan is completely justified by the existence of Hurdy Gurdy Man. Seriously. That song creeps me out.
Active Member
Jacko was always held in pretty high regard wasn't he? It is funny how the "I don't reckon he was a paedo" camp exploded in size after his death
Active Member
I do like Off The Wall through to Bad but I would say while Jacko is a great performer with a truly strange persona (the sensitive, effeminate hetero street urchin rather than the weird alien paedo of later years), I always felt QJ was the mastermind
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