Likes: Just this movie. Wow. Amazing. I'd even call it a masterpiece. So many thoughts. I haven't been blown away by a movie like this in a long time. I have so many thoughts, but I have to sort them all.
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Just this movie. Wow. Amazing. I'd even call it a masterpiece. So many thoughts. I haven't been blown away by a movie like this in a long time. I have so many thoughts, but I have to sort them all.
Active Member
Here is a good write-up:
Poor Things: A cinematic masterpiece or a work of horror?
Stubby Member
Best movie of 2023.
Throbbing Member
It's very good but I don't think I'd put it above Past Lives, Perfect Days, The Killer, Infinity Pool, or maybe even Anatomy of a Fall and Les Chambres Rouges. But it's definitely up there with those for me. Damn, 2023 was an outstanding year for film all around.
Side note to say Emma Stone was indeed excellent in the film. Her performance was very Hollywood and over the top, and it needed to be for that particular role. But if you contrast her performance in Poor Things with what she was doing in The Curse (also 2023) it's easy to see why she's one of the best.
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I did find one thing disturbing. Bella has the mind of a child and works as a sex worker. I don't think the film really addressed that.
Trollhunter
I think it definitely did address that.
Active Member
I thought that it didn't really address how disgusting and immoral that actually was. I'd like to see the movie again, because maybe that's not a fair criticism.Originally Posted by Swykk
Trollhunter
She realizes that people, especially Duncan, used her and decimates him for it. She succeeds despite her torment.
Active Member
I have also read that she matures at an accelerated rate.
I'm still unpacking the movie.
Active Member
I mean that was also evident just from watching the movie.
Throbbing Member
Some films for whatever reason can take a while to digest. Nothing wrong with that. I always say if you haven't seen a film twice then you really haven't seen a film. And when films are made for the sake of art, as opposed to just mindless entertainment, they are just like all other art forms in that they are layered and can and should be returned to over and over.
You are correct, she does mature at an accelerated rate during the film. I think Defoe's character lays this all out early on, but after that much of the age thing is left somewhat ambiguous. It's very clear though, that she begins around age 3 mentally and by the end she is completely self-realized, even surpassing her "father" as a scientist.
In fact, the entire movie pretty much hinges on this premise in my view. Placing a child's brain inside an adult body and giving it an accelerated growth rate was the perfect narrative vehicle to dissect and criticize social norms.
Honestly, it does such a good job at displaying just how absurd social conditioning is when viewed from a more objective standpoint, Bella.
It's also very much no coincidence that Bella's worldview is that of a purely scientific mindset. The film really tests what the implications of going through life with such a view would entail, and I see it as a total celebration of scientific reasoning. Science is taught to her by her father, who himself is the product of science. This contrasts heavily with the, sadly, still norm of raising children with a religious worldview, for example. And this brings me to another huge theme in this film...
Shame. Or rather, the lack of shame. The film is brilliant in how it explores this. Bella has experiences that would lead many to experience shame due to social conditioning or merely a lack of awareness of what is common. But Bella has no fucks to give, she is a scientist through and through. To her, experience is data which can be learned from. As she learns, growth happens. Accelerated growth. Here, I think the film is using it's own premise to hopefully have the audience pause and ask themself "Hmm, what if I chose this mindset? Have I been stunting my own growth by not choosing it?"
Now, as to your question of how the film handles the ick factor in all this, I think I agree with the others here in that there is plenty to pull from in the film itself to show how awful it is, but like all good films, it isn't wasting your time spelling it out and hitting you over the head with it but instead respects your intelligence by letting you have your own reaction.
The moment you see the grin on Mark Ruffalo's character's face when he realizes he has in his company and adult woman with the mind of a child who happens to love sex, yes, you are supposed to be repulsed and Ruffalo's Duncan is indeed despicable. It's an illustration of the importance of not only consent, but informed consent. Duncan is pathetic.
Come to think of it, it seems to me most of the men in the film are all pretty pathetic. Bella as a character can also be read as a stark contrast to the social conditioning towards women throughout most of human history. And historically, what happened to women who were involved in such activity? The were infantilized (or worse, demonized), so again the narrative device becomes a playground for philosophical thought experiment. Right down to the film's final act, which involves Bella's mother's husband claiming that her body is still his. Doesn't work out too well for him though and I have to say that final shot was chef's kiss. Christopher Abbott really played that part well, it really freaked me out. Saw him in Possessor and Sanctuary and he's one of the best actors working from what I've seen.
In general though, not to you specifically, I really hope people completely stop expecting a film to both tell a story and tell the audience what they are supposed to think of the moral implications of the occurrences in the story.
The bottom line is this. Depiction does not and has never equaled endorsement. Art should function as a mirror, not a politically correct instruction manual for what to think.
Ok, I better stop before this turns into an essay but those are some of the themes I found compelling in the movie and some of my takeaways.
Last edited by burnmotherfucker!; 05-08-2024 at 08:09 PM.
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@burnmotherfucker!,
Wow, thanks for posting that. That was a wonderful and insightful write-up.
The film was almost overwhelming, but in a good way. So much to think about. I think my initial criticism was kind of a knee-jerk reaction. But the way you explained it makes a lot of sense, especially when you write:
I really hope people completely stop expecting a film to both tell a story and tell the audience what they are supposed to think of the moral implications of the occurrences in the story.
Last edited by GulDukat; 05-08-2024 at 09:49 PM.
Throbbing Member
I loved this movie! I'm fascinated by how it starts out fairly disturbing and appaling, but by the end it's gorgeous and charming
Active Member
There's this strange perception around movies that's cropped up in the last 20 or so years that if a character (particularly a protagonist or protagonist-aligned character) does something in a movie, that means the filmmakers are condoning that behavior. Why? No one watches A Clockwork Orange or Natural Born Killers thinking the filmmakers are condoning that behavior, but more recently it seems like people tend to get up in arms when a character in a movie does something they don't agree with.
Movies are stories meant to explore a theme. The wider character arcs may be there to suggest ways in which we should or shouldn't live our lives, but that doesn't mean every step a character takes on their journey is implicitly being touted as okay behavior. It doesn't mean it's bad behavior, either. The characters are just doing what they're doing in order to tell the story. The plot of most movies is a metaphor for what the movie is really about, so the actions of the characters are just stepping stones to get there. The same is true of fairy tales, religious texts, song lyrics, etc. They're mean to be taken metaphorically, not literally.
This isn't pointed at anyone here, by the way. There was just a lot of weird hand-wringing around this movie to that end. It's an insane movie that looks like a live action cartoon, and people are getting bent out of shape about it like it's meant to be taken super literally.
Stubby Member
Couldn’t have put it better myself. It’s a real issue that affects any subtlety or nuance in storytelling. Characters are characters, they’re not necessarily meant to be representative of the filmmakers, or our own, beliefs. I recall some of the online anger over Sam Rockwell’s character not having a redemptive arc in regards to his racism in Three Billboards. He isn’t meant to. In real life a lot of people don’t grow or change for the better, and that ultimately leads to interesting, complex characters.
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