Controversial Music Opinions...

[BlueCalx]

I have no respect for The Flaming Lips, to me they are musical blowhards.

This x 20,000,000. I don't hear that near often enough. Coyne & co. are gimmick merchants; someone up there was talking about Lady Gaga 'passing off' what she does as performance art, but these guys have been at that game for much longer and are far more classless about it. Want to bring your two boomboxes over so we can listen to Zaireeka? Let's all press play at once and not fuck it up this time! Jesus Christ.

It looks like I was the only one getting anything out of the HTDA talk above, sadly. I found that song to be a great vehicle for discussion of things that aren't necessarily Controversial Opinions, but are a hell of a lot more interesting than whether or not AC/DC sucks. Spoiler alert, they suck thoroughly. Talking about HTDA opens the door to talking about the relevance of the major label system to music circa 2012, and to Trent's weird attitude about his current employer. I also felt like I was on to something that I'd like to tease out further. HTDA's stuff so far looks to me like it's being done to thin the fan herd a little bit. It's like Trent & co. are rebelling against the old image by making this textural, detailed, highly boring music, and trying to find a smaller audience. Anyone agree with me on this?

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think any HTDA discussion is almost irrelevant because the common consensus on this board is negative.

But you seem to be talking out of your ass when it comes to The Flaming Lips, especially if you're bringing up Zaireeka which is a 15 year old album. If you haven't heard The Soft Bulletin or anything afterward, then you're doing yourself a disservice. The difference between the Lips and Gaga is that the Lips have actually made legitimately great albums in the past and have proven themselves. Lada Gaga is a fucking pop star and nothing else.

[BlueCalx]

I think any HTDA discussion is almost irrelevant because the common consensus on this board is negative.

But you seem to be talking out of your ass when it comes to The Flaming Lips, especially if you're bringing up Zaireeka which is a 15 year old album. If you haven't heard The Soft Bulletin or anything afterward, then you're doing yourself a disservice. The difference between the Lips and Gaga is that the Lips have actually made legitimately great albums in the past and have proven themselves. Lada Gaga is a fucking pop star and nothing else.

You have no idea who you're dealing with, so sit down. So far, the conversation in this thread has been pretty civil, and I'd like to keep it that way, but if you want to patronize me like that I will make it so that you never want to post here again. You get one warning, boy, try me.

I've listened to loads of Flaming Lips. The Soft Bulletin is the only thing I liked from them. I kept going back into the early stuff and getting excited about their new releases, hoping to find some of what I found in TSB, but it never materialized. I think, in what would be the ultimate performance art move from them, TSB was done by a completely different band.

For the record, I'm completely neutral on Gaga, and wouldn't compare her to the Flaming Lips unless I was being completely facetious, like I was above. May as well compare them to E-40 or Marvin Gaye, completely different lanes.

[Jinsai]

well, I like The Flaming Lips. Zaireeka is a really weird thing though... I could never get it to "work" right for me with different sound sources, so I eventually just summed the audio in Logic, and the assembled songs just didn't do it for me. Also, they've written some songs that really make me feel insane, like that one about giraffes on Clouds Taste Metallic.

Still, I think they're a fun and interesting group. Their rabid fanbase overstates their importance, but I like em fine.

[Kid Charlemagne]

BlueCalx, What the hell is your problem? You should probably learn not to take things too harshly on the fucking internet before sending out a grade school threat like that. Go ahead and try your worst, I've been on this board for seven years, I've seen just about everything.

Their "gimmick" has always been to be weird and over the top and the only difference is, is that now they actually have a budget to do so and for the most part have been backed and supported by Warner Brothers (which is shocking because a major label backing a band that hasn't had a commercial hit in 19 years). You've made the mistake of trying to go back and listen to older material. Outside of "Clouds Taste Metallic" and "Transmissions From the Satellite Heart", everything is generic alternative rock. The Soft Bulletin was also done for the most part by Stephen, who was on the horse the whole time at that point and was in full Brian Wilson mode. To me, everything they've done since has been on a different scale outside of "Yoshimi" and "At War With the Mystics" which to me are practically the same album. "Embryonic" was so different and awesome though and the best thing they'd probably done in 10 years. Like My Morning Jacket who were mentioned earlier, The Flaming Lips have been consistently good the past decade and continue to evolve in their 50's when most bands would probably give up or stop trying.

For what they've done throughout their career, The Flaming Lips deserve every bit of recognition they've recieved.

[BlueCalx]

BlueCalx, What the hell is your problem? You should probably learn not to take things too harshly on the fucking internet before sending out a grade school threat like that. Go ahead and try your worst, I've been on this board for seven years, I've seen just about everything.

Grade school? Well, if you want grade school, you started it. If you've been around for so long, then how did you manage to miss the point of the thread? "Controversial Music Opinions?" As in, we all come in here to see our favourites get dumped on, and we take it with (relative) grace and respond without patronizing or presupposing knowledge. I'm sorry, Kid, but I've got too many years on me to have someone come around to tell me that I'm 'talking out of my ass'. If someone talks to me like that, I will absolutely raise the stakes. How would you have responded?

If there's one thing this thread has taught me, it's that taste is subjective. I write from the point of view of someone who saw a lot of potential, and has had one too many disappointments. I would be a fan of the Lips if they weren't so fond of putting the cart before the horse. Embryonic wasn't terrible, but it wasn't memorable, either. At least, it wasn't to me.

[Frozen Beach]

The Flaming Lips are just doing what many bands before them have done: Experimenting. If you don't like it, fine, but I think labeling the things they do as simply "gimmicks" is rather weak.

[BlueCalx]

The Flaming Lips are just doing what many bands before them have done: Experimenting. If you don't like it, fine, but I think labeling the things they do as simply "gimmicks" is rather weak.

To that I say, The Flaming Lips to encase 24 hour song in human skull. The subtitle reads "The stunts continue". Indeed.

[Kid Charlemagne]

"you started it!", sounds totally grade school to me, boy.

I haven't missed the point of this thread, seeing how half of this thread is devoted to backing up opinions as every other post does, whether it be about why Grimes isn't so bad or why Grimes sucks. I can be civil, I didn't totally shit on henryeatscereal because he didn't like My Morning Jacket, then again, he actually had a point when he made his post and didn't try to bring up HTDA after we all agreed not to bring up in this thread. I don't care how old you are, if you make a post that contributes as little as "Zaireeka sucks, that's why I hate The Flaming Lips", which is essentially what you did in the first place, I have no problem calling you out on it. I've seen a handful of my favorite bands (Radiohead, Black Keys, MMJ, Metallica, etc.) get dumped on in this thread, some by people who I actually consider friends, but they made valid points and you didn't. You can messgae me on this if you want because I'm sure one of the mods will swooop in any second for thread derailment.

I think the band is gimmicky and expermineting at the same time, but I think the work they've done is actually good. Especially the Heady Fwends project which basically took almost two years to complete. It would be one thing if they half assed it and it completely sucked, but they're putting out interesting music at the very least and in my opinion good music, despite the fetus', gummies, or skulls.

[Space Suicide]

Never heard Grimes nor care to after reading replies in this thread.

[BlueCalx]

"you started it!", sounds totally grade school to me, boy.

I haven't missed the point of this thread, seeing how half of this thread is devoted to backing up opinions as every other post does, whether it be about why Grimes isn't so bad or why Grimes sucks. I can be civil, I didn't totally shit on henryeatscereal because he didn't like My Morning Jacket, then again, he actually had a point when he made his post and didn't try to bring up HTDA after we all agreed not to bring up in this thread. I don't care how old you are, if you make a post that contributes as little as "Zaireeka sucks, that's why I hate The Flaming Lips", which is essentially what you did in the first place, I have no problem calling you out on it. I've seen a handful of my favorite bands (Radiohead, Black Keys, MMJ, Metallica, etc.) get dumped on in this thread, some by people who I actually consider friends, but they made valid points and you didn't.

I think the band is gimmicky and expermineting at the same time, but I think the work they've done is actually good. Especially the Heady Fwends project which basically took almost two years to complete. It would be one thing if they half assed it and it completely sucked, but they're putting out interesting music at the very least and in my opinion good music, despite the fetus', gummies, or skulls.

Well, then it must be my inexperience speaking. I didn't know that I was meant to write a Pitchfork-style windy takedown of the Flaming Lips in order to be taken seriously, and that I'd get sniped at by some self-appointed, witless referee if what I wrote didn't conform to standard. You could have asked me to back up what I was saying without putting me on the defensive, but you didn't. You went for the personal, despite not having the facts. Do me a favour, just skip over my posts. I've been doing that to yours for a while - you are the sort of writer who actually has to insult someone in order to get their attention. I'd really rather not engage.

I can write all manner of windy takedowns. The Lips are a band I've followed, off and on, for ages, and have only given up on recently due to frustration. The stupid skull trick, I think, was where I got off the boat. Yes, let's record a six-hour jam, shove it in a skull and sell it to a wealthy patron. Really, excellent job guys, well done. You've made a nigh-unlistenable piece of music and sold it off as a curio to someone with more money than sense. To me, a dick move, and one of many examples in a career that's been filled with them. Like I said, cart before the horse. All concept, no execution, the same thing that people were bashing Crystal Castles for not that long ago.

I don't recall agreeing to not bring up HTDA, either. I brought them up to talk about why I found them worth talking about in this thread. I figured the other people would either take me up on my initial points or let it drop.

[Frozen Beach]

To that I say, The Flaming Lips to encase 24 hour song in human skull. The subtitle reads "The stunts continue". Indeed.

So, they like to have fun with the way they present their music. Big deal. At this point, I think you're just digging for things to criticize.

[BlueCalx]

So, they like to have fun with the way they present their music. Big deal. At this point, I think you're just digging for things to criticize.

Assuming that's true, I didn't have to dig very hard! My 'digging' consisted of remembering something I found really gauche and uncool when it first surfaced in the news, and why I went off them after being actually pretty positive on Embryonic. If you think the skull/gummi/fetus stuff is cool, that's excellent, really. Good for you. You are their audience. I'm not. I find it tawdry, hence the beef. It's real simple. My initial comment on the band was facetious, but if you want an honest opinion, I think that the FLips are, underneath all of the presentation, a decent band, and when their experiments hit they are awesome. However, they have too much weird-for-weird's-sake going on in their act for me to wholeheartedly support them. It's a similar reason to why I have no use for the Grateful Dead. It's a lot to ask of listeners to put out things like Zaireeka or six hour jams that can only be obtained through weird methods. It's pompous, and not really worth the effort. You ever listened to a six hour piece of music straight through? Do you remember much of it? Chances are there were a couple cool bits that you tuned into in between doing dishes or homework. Is that the sort of music you really need in your life? Fuck, life's short. I don't hate them, don't think they're evil or talentless, I just look at them and think that if they took the self-conscious arty shit down a tiny little bit I would like them a lot.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I don't recall insulting Aggroculture or henryeatscereal for having different opinions, neither of them have continued to make an ass of themselves though, so there's that/ Go ahead and give me that "Pitchfork" label, even though you're the one who linked a Pitchfork article in this thread when talking about HTDA (again). If you don't want to engage, I'd suggest you stop replying to me because it looks as if I'm getting under your skin for no apparent reason.

The band has executed things perfectly in my opinion. Being the fact that they're not a commercial success, they haven't released a proper album in three years, they're doing things for them and not for the masses. They also love their fans and engage with them at shows. It would be one thing if they were Maynard-esque in their approach, but they're sincere about what they're doing. Also, all those "gimmicks" you mentioned, were self-released and not under a huge label, so they've put in their own money to do these projects. They recently reupped with Warner Bros for Heady Fwends, but all the post-Embryonic projects were self released, so I applaud them for that.

[Clownboat]

Everyone needs to read the thread title and grow a spine before clicking it, as this isn't the place to get all personal and defensive about music opinions. Chill out with the insult-throwing.

As for this...

You have no idea who you're dealing with, so sit down. So far, the conversation in this thread has been pretty civil, and I'd like to keep it that way, but if you want to patronize me like that I will make it so that you never want to post here again. You get one warning, boy, try me.

Out of line. Completely unnecessary and childish. Stop it.

[carpenoctem]

The Knife's work has been spotty in the past - so far they've released just three albums in eleven years (if you don't count the Darwin opera, which I don't), and only one of them has been truly amazing. But they are weird and wonderful in their own way, even if they don't knock it out of the park every time around. No one else sounds like them.

Grimes I like ok, but only Visions was good - everything she put out before that was a weird murky soup of ideas that never fully bloomed. I listened to Visions a lot when it came out but not so much anymore. She's not groundbreaking, but she's good at making basic synthpop. (I hate the genre descriptor "post-Internet" because no one seems to be able to explain what it means.) I really like her voice - it's probably the only thing that makes her brand of synthpop stand out from everyone else's.

And MMJ are amazing. A couple of their albums have been truly legendary (It Still Moves, Z), and last year's Circuital was a pretty good summation of what they've done so far. Evil Urges has its moments too. They're one of the better rock bands around today, Jim James has a voice that will be remembered for a long time to come.

[henryeatscereal]

Please don't make up your mind after hearing this. As much as I love this song, I'm pretty sure it was meant as a joke. Evil Urges is probably the worst example of MMJ I can give people. Henry, if you don't like "Z" then it's not meant to be. I don't find them Floydish at all, but I've seen their sets at Bonnaroo and I get what they're talking about when they bring that up because things change as far as songs performed live. They wear their influences on their sleeves, but I think they mesh genres together better than their jam counterparts (except Ween).

Ok i downloaded "Z" and it's not bad stuff, im not crazy about it but the record is listenable, "Wordless Chorus" is a good opener "Gideon" and "Anytime" are good too!
In my opinion it sounds more "Psychedelic" and "Space-rockish" than "Progressive", i guess with more listens i'll like it a bit more, i wasn't crazy about the record but i could stand it for the entire 47 minutes it lasted, still i find the Pink Floyd or even Radiohead comparisons a bit forced.

Final judgment: They are not Pink Floyd, that's for certain... but seeing them in the light of Ween, Crazy Horse or even The Band seems more sensate, i don't love them yet, but im glad i got to know them a bit better, im downloading "Circuital" so i can hear what the fuzz is about...

About Highly suspicious: WTF? weird song, nothing to do with them or their style, the funny thing is i kinda like it! :P

[Kid Charlemagne]

Final judgment: They are not Pink Floyd, that's for certain... but seeing them in the light of Ween, Crazy Horse or even The Band seems more sensate, i don't love them yet, but im glad i got to know them a bit better, im downloading "Circuital" so i can hear what the fuzz is about...

Funny you should mention that...

[henryeatscereal]

^haha, i swear i saw you with a Trollface, in a way it proves my point and also leaves me as an idiot :P

[october_midnight]

Whereas most of their discography is pretty bad, screw you the song 'Comedown' by Bush off their Sixteen Stone album is pretty great.

[BlueCalx]

Out of line. Completely unnecessary and childish. Stop it.

Yep, you're right. I look back on what I wrote and can't even believe it. For the record, I was running a pretty high fever that day and taking the sort of cold medicine that they advise you not to take if you intend on operating heavy machinery. Maybe I would've been better off on a tractor than online. Sorry, everyone. I hate to be the person to drag the conversation into the toilet. Next time I feel like putting on my Internet Tough Guy hat I'll take it to Reddit, where it belongs.

Back on topic, I think it's a travesty that Anton Fier and the Golden Palominos are talked about so little.

[Space Suicide]

Whereas most of their discography is pretty bad, screw you the song 'Comedown' by Bush off their Sixteen Stone album is pretty great.

I don't hate them but they're pretty dated and generic 90's post-grunge. I'm surprised they're around today and have a solid fanbase. Then again, everyone has a love affair with Rossdale's 'talent'.

I do like Everything Zen though.

[Jinsai]

I don't hate them but they're pretty dated and generic 90's post-grunge. I'm surprised they're around today and have a solid fanbase. Then again, everyone has a love affair with Rossdale's 'talent'.

The guy's voice drives me nuts, but Comedown is a really "likable" pop song, where its simple appeal is really obvious. Kinda like whatever Adele hit is big now, or that song Waterfalls by TLC. I wouldn't call it great though.

[allegro]

The guy's voice drives me nuts, but Comedown is a really "likable" pop song, where its simple appeal is really obvious. Kinda like whatever Adele hit is big now, or that song Waterfalls by TLC. I wouldn't call it great though.

We saw them live back in the day, I kinda liked this one:

[aggroculture]

Never liked Bush from the very beginning: never liked the fact it sounded like they named themselves after a douchey US president. Of all the possible band names you go with "Bush"? Retarded.
As for their horribly cynical Nirv Jam grunge-pop: never liked that either. I always felt that Gavin Rossdale was coming from a place of the utmost insincerity.
These guys took a chance on ripping off a sound and an aesthetic wholesale, and astonishingly, it paid off. So many genuinely great bands of that day went nowhere. Yet these guys hit the jackpot? Come on.
Fuck them, their success is an embarassment to British rock music and American fans alike.

[henryeatscereal]

Bush being insincere, bland, boring and untalented is hardly controversial...

[Sutekh]

The only good thing to come out of gavin rossdale was daisy lowe

[Jinsai]

the only good thing to come out of gavin rossdale was daisy lowe

what the fuck are you talking about?!

[orestes]

Daisy Lowe is his daughter.

*low-hanging fruit*

[Sutekh]

what the fuck are you talking about?!

Haha... How many plausible interpretations of my comment can you possibly be wrestling with?!

I'll clarify it a bit ; those 23 chromosomes were the only good thing to come out of Rossdale.