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Thread: Coronavirus - COVID-19

  1. #1681
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    Quote Originally Posted by d1stinct View Post
    You actually make a good point; encouraging Americans to "liberate", which has spurred protests across the US is only making matters worse by increasing the chances/likelihood for the virus to spread, which in turn means that those Americans might travel abroad and spread it to other countries.
    It’s also inciting insurrection. That’s illegal.

    President Trump incited insurrection Friday against the duly elected governors of the states of Michigan, Minnesota and Virginia. Just a day after issuing guidance for re-opening America that clearly deferred decision-making to state officials — as it must under our Constitutional order — the president undercut his own guidance by calling for criminal acts against the governors for not opening fast enough.

    Trump tweeted, “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” followed immediately by “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” and then “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!” This follows Wednesday’s demonstration in Michigan, in which armed protestors surrounded the state capitol building in Lansing chanting “Lock her up!” in reference to Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, and “We will not comply,” in reference to her extension of the state’s coronavirus-related stay-at-home order. Much smaller and less-armed groups had on Thursday protested on the state capitol grounds in Richmond, Va., and outside the governor’s mansion in St. Paul, Minn.

    “Liberate” — particularly when it’s declared by the chief executive of our republic — isn’t some sort of cheeky throwaway. Its definition is “to set at liberty,” specifically “to free (something, such as a country) from domination by a foreign power.” We historically associate it with the armed defeat of hostile forces during war, such as the liberation of Western Europe from Nazi Germany’s control during World War II. Just over a year ago, Trump himself announced that “the United States has liberated all ISIS-controlled territory in Syria and Iraq.”

    In that context, it’s not at all unreasonable to consider Trump’s tweets about “liberation” as at least tacit encouragement to citizens to take up arms against duly elected state officials of the party opposite his own, in response to sometimes unpopular but legally issued stay-at-home orders. This is especially so given the president’s reference to the Second Amendment being “under siege” in Virginia, where Democratic Gov. Ralph Northam just signed into law a number of gun-safety bills passed during the most recent session of the state general assembly — bills that prompted protests by Second Amendment absolutists at the state capitol in January, leading Northam to declare a state of emergency and temporarily ban firearms from the capitol grounds due to the threat of violence.

    It’s an echo of the “Second Amendment remedies” rhetoric of the 2010 midterm election. It’s clearly a violation of federalism principles, and it’s quite possibly a crime under federal law. And insurrection or treason against state government is a crime in Virginia, Michigan and Minnesota, as well as most states. Assembling with others to train or practice using firearms or other explosives for use during a civil disorder is also a crime in many states. But the president himself is calling for just that.
    Regardless of whether the tweets are criminal on their own, more importantly, they are irresponsible and dangerous. Private armed militias recently expressed eagerness to support the president’s veiled call to arms when he shared a comment on Twitter suggesting that if he were impeached and removed from office, it could lead to civil war:



    Just a day before, the Oath Keepers Twitter account tweeted, in an apparent reference to the president, that “All he has to do is call us up. We WILL answer the call.” Months before, vigilante groups responded to Trump’s frequent rhetoric about an “invasion” on America’s southern border by deploying to the border and illegally detaining migrants while heavily armed, dressed in military fatigues and calling themselves the “United Constitutional Patriots.”

    Trump has a bully pulpit unlike an ordinary citizen. His twitter account boasts over 77 million followers, but many more see his tweets when they’re retweeted by others, posted on other social media and covered by media outlets. He is prolific, having tweeted more than 50,000 times. And he is influential: his three “liberation” tweets have been retweeted and “liked” hundreds of thousands of times. We are not talking about a typical person when we consider the impact of his statements.

    That’s why we can’t write these tweets off as just hyperbole or political banter. And that’s why these tweets aren’t protected free speech. Although generally advocating for the use of force or violation of law is protected (as hard to conceive as that may be when the statements are made by someone in a position of public trust, like the president of the United States), the Supreme Court has previously articulated that where such advocacy is “inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action,” it loses its First Amendment protection. The president’s tweets — unabashedly using the current crisis to encourage a backlash against lawful and expert-recommended public health measures, falsely claiming a Second Amendment “siege” and calling for insurrection against elected leaders — have no place in our public discourse and enjoy no protection under our Constitution.

    By Mary McCord
    Mary McCord is legal director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection and a visiting professor at the Georgetown University Law Center. She was acting U.S. assistant attorney general for national security from 2016 to 2017.
    Last edited by allegro; 04-20-2020 at 08:45 AM.

  2. #1682
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    ^ Obligatory Nixon "when the president does it" quote. Sigh.

  3. #1683
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    from a contact in a flyover state, the main impetus for the protests is the bars are closed. i pointed out montana had low infection rate due in part to the isolation protocols & that the neighboring dakotas didn't have those & now have a huge problem. the response was at least they have their freedom. we are doomed & the 4 horsemen are going to ride in wearing MAGA hats.

  4. #1684
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    my facebook feed today was a friend mourning the passing of a friend who had to be intubated (they needed to slit his throat to insert a breathing tube), followed by a facebook argument from my friend's nephew and some Trump supporting dipshit "friend" of his. This kid, who looked like he might be in his early 20s, laughing at the death figures, claiming it's all a hoax, on his FB page he's celebrating the Space Force...

  5. #1685
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbie solo View Post
    Why don't you tell us why you're so surprised. I bet you're gonna love the responses you get.
    well, for one I don't like the idea of the Secret Service - who has to investigate every instance of something like this - coming by the board and making things difficult for anyone IRL.

    side note: if the last few years have taught me anything it's that Karma doesn't exist.

  6. #1686
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckrh View Post
    from a contact in a flyover state, the main impetus for the protests is the bars are closed. i pointed out montana had low infection rate due in part to the isolation protocols & that the neighboring dakotas didn't have those & now have a huge problem. the response was at least they have their freedom. we are doomed & the 4 horsemen are going to ride in wearing MAGA hats.
    The party stores are still open in Michigan.


    National alcohol sales are up 55%.

  7. #1687
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    It's funny that alcohol sales are up considering that there's going to be a CO2 shortage shortly and it's used to...dun dun DUN...make alcohol.


    The main reason for national shortages, according to the CEO of the Compressed Gas Association (CGA), Rich Gottwald, is a ramping down of ethanol production.


    “Back in the summertime, the [Trump] administration exempted some gasoline manufacturers from using ethanol. Then we had Russia and Saudi Arabia flooding the market with cheap gasoline. All of that led to an oversupply of ethanol,” Gottwald said.


    “As ethanol manufacturers were ramping down because there wasn’t a market for their product, along comes Covid-19, which meant people weren’t driving anywhere”, he added.


    This led to plant closures, including among the 50 specialized plants that collect CO2 for the food and beverage market.


    Gottwald’s association, along with a number of associations representing food and beverage industries, which together use 77% of food-grade CO2, issued a joint warning to the federal government about the shortage.


    In an open letter to the vice-president, Mike Pence, the coalition warns: “Preliminary data show that production of CO2 has decreased by approximately 20%, and experts predict that CO2 production may be reduced by 50% by mid-April.”


    It continues: “A shortage in CO2 would impact the US availability of fresh food, preserved food and beverages, including beer production.”

  8. #1688
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    Actually CO2 is a by-product of fermentation. CO2 is only used to carbonate beverages, beer included.

  9. #1689
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    are you attacking my specious argument?

  10. #1690
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    Last edited by Magnetic; 04-20-2020 at 12:50 PM.

  11. #1691
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    Quote Originally Posted by diptych View Post
    I guess I figured my fellow NIN fans would be a bit more civilised than wishing your president dead. Guess I was wrong. My bad.
    Let’s start with Demogorgon liked your post. That’s usually a huge warning sign around here.

    Does Trump need to die? No. He does need to be out of power and brought to justice thereafter, though, for the litany of crimes he’s committed.
    The country and world would be better off without him in power, for sure. His stubbornness and ineptitude are costing American lives now. The only way to do this now is to vote him out.
    Last edited by Swykk; 04-20-2020 at 12:27 PM.

  12. #1692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    Spoiler: right click an image and - in chrome at least - click copy link address, paste that into the IMG tags.

  13. #1693
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    you put a lot of the thoughts I have been dealing with into words in a way I never could have. thank you for that. just last night my wife and I were discussing the people who want to reopen and my immediate reaction was "fine, I hope they all die!" and of course that's not true but it's real hard having any empathy for people who just want to "own the libs" instead of trying to find a way through this morass that allows us to be better humans on the other side of it.

    I mean, look at this shit.


  14. #1694
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    Hey everybody! The crisis is over in Georgia. Phew! Gonna get my nails done.


    https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regi...vqMStwhPf9oFI/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #1695
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    Hey everybody! The crisis is over in Georgia. Phew! Gonna get my nails done.


    https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regi...vqMStwhPf9oFI/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We are so fucked.

  16. #1696
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    Glad I don't live in the US.

  17. #1697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    Let’s start with Demogorgon liked your post. That’s usually a huge warning sign around here.
    Or it means someone is a little sensitive and needs to get their undies untwisted.

  18. #1698
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  19. #1699
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    No, it’s most certainly what I said; what multiple people on this board know.

    I’m starting to think mid to late 2021 is an optimistic estimate. Sure, these ironic dim witted protestors are not a large group but it doesn’t take much to spread the virus, does it?
    Last edited by Swykk; 04-20-2020 at 06:27 PM.

  20. #1700
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    I’m starting to think mid to late 2021 is an optimistic estimate. Sure, these ironic dim witted protestors are not a large group but it doesn’t take much to spread the virus, does it?
    I do think we're going to see a second wave. States with idiot governors will serve as the guinea pigs for sure. Georgia has offered itself as tribute, I think.
    ajc.com/news/kemp-reopens-some-businesses-despite-warnings/BtoA8zxYcGACOCZP0HB1HL/

    Personally, from my limited medical understanding, but educated molecular viewpoint, I think we're going to see waves of outbreaks, followed by quarantine/ strain on healthcare for a while.

    The biggest problem is that the nation sees things 'getting better.' The only reason that has happened is A) inadequate testing and B) self-distancing slowed this train down. The moment we take our foot of the brakes....guess what happens? It's anti-science in action.

    Hopefully those who have had COVID19 will develop immunity and no longer pass it to others...though there's concern given reports from South Korea. Alternatively, there are trials of recovered COVID19 patients donating plasma to those who are ill. If this proves to be viable (timing of critically ill patients receiving plasma is crucial), then we at least have a potential pseudo-treatment until we have a vaccine. But this is volunteer dependent, which could be rare.

    Recombinant protein vaccinations are underway. The earliest one that was tested in humans started March of this year, which means our best hope is summer 2021.....maybe early spring 2021 if we're lucky. Even if something is viable, then you have to be able to mass produce it, AAAAAND convince the company not to charge ridic money for it. Good luck with that.

    What pisses me off is that the US is...4.25% of the world's population? And we lead with 25% of the coronavirus deaths.... Obviously there might be a lot of under-reporting that's going on....but still. And we're the only nation where there are assholes protesting lockdown. WTF.

  21. #1701
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    yep, as I said to someone earlier, this country looks damn foolish protesting a lockdown.
    South Carolina & Tennessee join Georgia in lifting restrictions this week.
    The governors are literally sentencing their people to death.

  22. #1702
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    In all honesty, this is probably as negative as other places right now because it’s people venting.
    can I just say I was full of shit when I said this, as I now have had several Trump related tweets in my twitter timeline and gone into a rabbit hole of bizarre MAGA pro trump, anti vaccination, full conspiracy talking points. Twitter is the worst.
    Last edited by WorzelG; 04-21-2020 at 12:53 AM.

  23. #1703
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  24. #1704
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    He probably had it before the protest which means he was spreading around. Jfc


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  25. #1705
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    Twitter is the worst.
    Social media as whole really.

  26. #1706
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  27. #1707
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    In MA Governor Baker cancelled school for the remainder of the academic year. While I agree with his decision, I feel really bad for the high school kids. The seniors are going to miss graduation, prom, saying goodbye to the teachers and friends that they've known their whole lives. Sucks for the juniors as now is the time that they are picking schools that they want to go to and are getting their ducks in a row for what they are going to do after graduation next year.

  28. #1708
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    Department of silver linings: Dead & Co have cancelled all tour dates.

  29. #1709
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    what the actual fuck is wrong with people.



    also Is there a counter version of the saying "life comes at you fast"?

    Last edited by allegate; 04-21-2020 at 05:20 PM.

  30. #1710
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckrh View Post
    Department of silver linings: Dead & Co have cancelled all tour dates.
    Cool, I'll pass that on to all my friends who were working on that tour. They'll be happy to hear it!

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