Sandbag Watch - NIN and Sandbag part. Livenation picks up the pieces.

[klyrish]

Yes, Japanese CDs are more pricey due to JASRAC's fees, so labels add bonus tracks to entice people to buy the Japan version versus a cheaper import. I'm sure they are better than Chinese or Taiwanese versions.

But they have gained this weird "ultimate" version status because some western buyers have decided that someone at a Japanese pressing plant is a better judge of audio quality than Jethro at a plant in Kentucky.

I'm not meaning to shitpost. I admit to having plenty of Japanese CDs and a couple SHM-CDs. Are they "better?" I don't know. So I wouldn't necessarily advocate for chasing down copies. Some people may think they're superior. Some may think that they're just CDs with Blu Ray coating. YMMV.

As a collector of alternate/import versions of CDs, I can tell you (for me) the Japanese version is almost always the ultimate one, but it's solely due to the obi strip and kanji characters all over the packaging. The bonus tracks are icing on the cake.

[klyrish]

Sandbag got back to me today and said a replacement sleeve is on the way. I opened my copy today and thankfully the vinyl looks to be in good shape. Still disappointing as hell but at least I should have a better condition sleeve shortly.

[jmtd]

So you've heard the NIN SHM-CDs I'm referring to then? You're willing to vouch that it's all smoke and mirrors?

I'm hearing a difference. Sorry you can't. *shrugs*

No, I'd never even heard of SHM-CD until your post. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I read up on the technology, and I know enough physics to understand that the only way *anyone* could tell a difference would be if, when playing the non-SHM CDs, your equipment was suffering from read errors. What SHM-CD does is (theoretically) increase the likelyhood that the 0s and 1s in the data are read successfully. If it works, you're audio equipment is getting exactly the same 1s and 0s as it would from a regular CD, with no read errors. In my case, I never play CDs anymore, I rip them; and when I rip them I use AccurateRip to ensure that I have not suffered read errors during the extraction. Ergo, I don't suffer from the problem that SHM-CD might theoretically solve.

Huh, never heard that one. I have heard that CD's were more expensive to sell in Japan than imports from other countries due to some kind of law, so to give an incentive for Japanese people to buy domestic they would usually put bonus tracks on them. I've never heard they were supposed to be better quality, though? I do seem to remember Japanese CD-R's were supposed to be higher quality than those made in Taiwan or China.

A friend of mine works in the music business mostly in Japan. He tells me some great stories. I'm not sure what is law and what is social convention, but basically Japanese music labels insist on pressing all the stuff for the home market locally. So there can often be delays relative to other markets, so consumers might resort to piracy. To dissuade that, the get the extra track and the tacky badge. My friend told me about another westerner who set up a small label there and got some contracts and basically worked around the law/convention by importing US CDs but printing the jewel case inserts locally. His factory literally take the CDs out of the US jewel case and stuff them into the locally printed one.

[eversonpoe]

Is that a printing error on the bottom center label?

i think when the label got baked on, it rubbed against something. so yes, i would call that a printing error.

[arachnophilia]

This just arrived.
I can see how easily all the US orders have been damaged as you can see from the corners of the inner, oversized cardboard mailer.

mine was a snug media mail mailer, it's just that it very obviously has been dropped like, a bunch of times.

http://i.imgur.com/tja3VSX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Midwc96.jpg

the other mailer is another record i got today as well -- zero damage, same kind of mailer.

[neorev]

As for Japan pressing CDs, it is believed because Japan sets higher standards at their plants and using better materials. It's about error correction in your music players. The crappier made the CD, the more audio correction needed, leading to a more inferior playback quality. SHM-CDs are slightly thicker and lets less of the laser pass through its surface unlike normal thinner CDs that are fairly transparent. They also make SHM-SACDs, which I imagine would be higher quality since they can hold higher bitrates.

Honestly, music should simply be moved to Blu-ray for superior quality. Most folks have the ability to play Blu-rays in their homes and it wouldn't be that hard to upgrade. Just like people who installed CD players in their cars and cassette decks went out of style, the same could be done with Blu-ray. That way you still have physical packaging and a format delivering high quality audio. It is really not that difficult to move people over to the format because it already exists. Even computers have Blu-ray players.

Blu-ray can even be used in ways superior to vinyl when it comes to delivering artwork. Not only could you deliver 5.1 and stereo sound simultaneously, you would now have a new way of delivering artwork to people through through their TVcomputer screens while still keeping the tradition of a art booklet in the case. Tracks can have dedicated visuals, moving images, lyrics, etc. Most TVs and players connect to the internet, another way to connect fans with each other and having the ability to turn an album listening experience into a community experience. Easily host your own listening parties. Connect fans to other folks listening to the album at the same time. We see this already happening with films on this very format.

Blu-ray still keeps the physical packaging you hold in the hands while also adding the ability for full on immersion while also expanding the listening experience beyond your own personal listening space.

I think if folks care about quality, convenience, artwork, and having a full immersion experience... Blu-ray is a much better direction. There's so many opportunities that this format gives us, but instead we go backwards. Music really needs to move forward while also retaining high audio quality, artwork/visuals, and the tactile aspects we love.

[eversonpoe]

As for Japan pressing CDs, it is believed because Japan sets higher standards at their plants and using better materials. It's about error correction in your music players. The crappier made the CD, the more audio correction needed, leading to a more inferior playback quality. SHM-CDs are slightly thicker and lets less of the laser pass through its surface unlike normal thinner CDs that are fairly transparent. They also make SHM-SACDs, which I imagine would be higher quality since they can hold higher bitrates.

Honestly, music should simply be moved to Blu-ray for superior quality. Most folks have the ability to play Blu-rays in their homes and it wouldn't be that hard to upgrade. Just like people who installed CD players in their cars and cassette decks went out of style, the same could be done with Blu-ray. That way you still have physical packaging and a format delivering high quality audio. It is really not that difficult to move people over to the format because it already exists. Even computers have Blu-ray players.

Blu-ray can even be used in ways superior to vinyl when it comes to delivering artwork. Not only could you deliver 5.1 and stereo sound simultaneously, you would now have a new way of delivering artwork to people through through their TV screens. Tracks can have dedicated visuals, moving images, lyrics, etc. You could really turn the music listening experience to a full immersion with Blu-ray. Not including having a booklet with your case/packaging. I think if folka care about quality, convenience, artwork, and immersion... Blu-ray is a much better direction. There's so many opportunities that this format gives us, but instead we go backwards.

i mean, they kind of did that with DVD-Audio (and even just having dedicated audio sections of standard DVD-video discs). i have a TON of dvd-audio discs, but of course, i no longer have a player that will play the higher-res files available when you play the discs as DVD-A. but for a while, i did, and it was awesome. especially ones that included visuals, like Beck's album "Guero". i'm someone that listens to music almost constantly, so when i'm actually at home, i want to have the most immersive experience possible. i wish dvd-audio had caught on more as a format. has anyone really put out blu-ray audio discs besides steven wilson and his buds?

[neorev]

i mean, they kind of did that with DVD-Audio (and even just having dedicated audio sections of standard DVD-video discs). i have a TON of dvd-audio discs, but of course, i no longer have a player that will play the higher-res files available when you play the discs as DVD-A. but for a while, i did, and it was awesome. especially ones that included visuals, like Beck's album "Guero". i'm someone that listens to music almost constantly, so when i'm actually at home, i want to have the most immersive experience possible. i wish dvd-audio had caught on more as a format. has anyone really put out blu-ray audio discs besides steven wilson and his buds?

Nirvana did for both Nevermind and In Utero reissues. Underworld did one for their Dubnobasswithmyheadman reissue. So yeah, there are bands trying it. It's a matter of it being promoted better and also doing it right. I think artists need to do more than simply just put their album on a Blu-ray as is. They need to add to the listening experience and include more art and information that fans would want to see.

P.S. Sorry, I did make some edits and updates with my post before you quoted and responded. So they may bits in there you didn't get to read.

Here is the In Utero release...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Nirvan...Blu-ray/88498/

You will see the main complaint was that they could have added so much more than just the album itself.

Underworld...
http://www.amazon.com/Dubnobasswithm.../dp/B00L3TXAC2

The main complaint I always see is how there was so much room left on the Blu-ray disc to add more than just the album itself.

[thefooman007]

Hello all,
My Fragile vinyl showed up last week. The "FRAGILE" warning label went unnoticed apparently during shipping sustaining heavy damage to the corner of the packaging and contents. I emailed the sandbag group and explained to them the situation. They responded saying they would mail out a replacement sleeve and keep an eye out for a shipping notice. I responded to them that while I appreciate the gesture, that solution was not satisfying my needs as I needed this to be a sealed copy. The follow up email stated they would replace the record and would be delivering a shipping notice to my email. Those of you that have experienced a similar issue may want to give that idea a try.

[neorev]

Imagine what something like The Fragile could be on Blu-ray. What its artwork could look like on a 50-70" 1080p/4K TV. Having the whole booklet accessible on your screen. Peruse the physical art book while also flipping through images on the screen and reading the lyrics. Having the ability to hear it in 24 bit stereo or 5.1 surround sound. Having the ability to connect with other fans listening and hosting your own listening party right through your Blu-ray player. There are many more opportunities here we haven't even spoke about yet. Like I said, I believe music and the listening experience needs to move forward and high quality audio needs to be treated properly and retained. That requires the industry to stop fucking up audio in their battle to win the loudness war.

[WorzelG]

This conversation has reminded me that i bought the social network bluray audio which is useless to me as my tv is a bit old and crap and I don't have surround speakers either. I should probably sell it so it goes to a good home

[eversonpoe]

But that's not why it's minimal. It seems to clearly be a cost-saving or more likely time-saving measure, given the materials in the PDF that they took the time to design. Hell, they even took the time and care to design the sticker on the front with the blank Parental Advisory warning (since there are no lyrics).

you're right, the packaging is inadequate to house four 180g LPs. i just meant in terms of the visual design of the packaging, i like minimalist approach. but it should have been made of a heavier stock with four individual pockets, not two.

[Reaps]

I'd like to imagine a back catalogue released on Blu Ray in mediabook form, You could argue sitting down and listening to say Deviations and reading the mediabook would be a better experience than listening to the vinyl and staring down at your squashed barebones of a album sleeve.

[DVYDRNS]

So my copy got delivered today!



To my old address. That I updated when I moved.

What the actual fuck is wrong with this company...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[halo eighteen]

Safe to say I'm not ordering from the NIN store until they figure out how to get things manufactured and key word: SAFELY distributed out to people. I'd suggest a major label needs to step in. Columbia had no issues with Hesitation Marks. Major bummer that this is not working out, but it's clearly not working out.

[ninjaw]

Got the 1st french report, and it's damaged on corners
https://sendvid.com/myu1uztw
Most of us are still waiting... but we noticed we've been sent a classic french postal tracking number... and not a ukmail or dhl as mentioned

[Conan The Barbarian]

So I decided to take a look at the actual records to see if they were warped( they aren't as far as I can tell.) Upon removing them from their paper coverings, two records had what looked like black shavings, is if they were left over from any carving or whatever. Also one record had small hair debris on it.

Is that normal for any vinyl when you first open it?

[neorev]

I'd like to imagine a back catalogue released on Blu Ray in mediabook form, You could argue sitting down and listening to say Deviations and reading the mediabook would be a better experience than listening to the vinyl and staring down at your squashed barebones of a album sleeve.

I personally love the look of a digibook. They make CD and DVD sizes. It looks like a digipack, but with far thicker material and allows to include a book of art within it.

Something like these...

10" digibook:




DVD digibook:



Something like these meets a full on immersive Blu-ray release is the way forward. You could even include the 24 bit download files as well. You get the best of all worlds. We have a physical format just sitting there that can be utilized in amazing ways to deliver music and the art surrounding it.

[Kyle]

So I decided to take a look at the actual records to see if they were warped( they aren't as far as I can tell.) Upon removing them from their paper coverings, two records had what looked like black shavings, is if they were left over from any carving or whatever. Also one record had small hair debris on it.

Is that normal for any vinyl when you first open it?

maybe the hair debris is just left over from when they shaved the record and didn't brush away all the shavings?

[afors]

maybe the hair debris is just left over from when they shaved the record and didn't brush away all the shavings?

Thin black vinyl hairs seem to be from the outer edge of the disk (perfectly normal). I had one. and broke it off. Perhaps I should have retained it and sold it as
a Deviations 1 physical component?

[thebigcomedown]

My deviations arrived today, with all 4 corners damaged. Certainly a letdown. Sent an email to start a refund/return
Can't post a pic from my phone, but the typical smooshed in corners from insufficient packaging. I wonder if Firebrand would've packaged them better...

[tony.parente]

I opened a ticket with sandbag on Saturday, should I have heard from them by now?

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Imagine what something like The Fragile could be on Blu-ray. What its artwork could look like on a 50-70" 1080p/4K TV. Having the whole booklet accessible on your screen. Peruse the physical art book while also flipping through images on the screen and reading the lyrics. Having the ability to hear it in 24 bit stereo or 5.1 surround sound. Having the ability to connect with other fans listening and hosting your own listening party right through your Blu-ray player. There are many more opportunities here we haven't even spoke about yet. Like I said, I believe music and the listening experience needs to move forward and high quality audio needs to be treated properly and retained. That requires the industry to stop fucking up audio in their battle to win the loudness war.

It bewilders me how an album like In Utero, that was recorded and mixed raw af in about 10 days, has received such top-shelf audio and physical treatment over the years, while The Fragile -- an album that begs for close inspection and high-end playback equipment -- is still two months from getting a "definitive" reissue, whatever that will entail.

That Nirvana album was like a kiss-off to the industry and the jocks who latched onto Nevermind, recorded by one of the most uncompromising engineers in the history of rock music, and you can now go so far as to get it on pure blu-ray audio. That just blows my mind; Kurt must be spinning in his grave right now.

As for The Fragile, well..

[NotoriousTIMP]

To add to this whole cluster fuck that is the fire band/sandbag debacle, I cancelled my order a few weeks ago and got a full refund yet I still received the LP today...damaged too.

https://imgur.com/a/8cjn0

im emailing their customer service to see if I can return the record to them...they really need to get their shit together.

[modelsynth]

The expected delivery date of my Deviations was supposed to be today. The USPS tracking shows that it started out in PA on June 27, went to NJ on June 27, then arrived in WA on July 1. That's the last time the tracking has been updated. Looks like I'm not getting it today. By the way, I live I KY, so the USPS has sent it to the opposite side of the United States. Anyone else having a similar problem?

[neorev]

It bewilders me how an album like In Utero, that was recorded and mixed raw af in about 10 days, has received such top-shelf audio and physical treatment over the years, while The Fragile -- an album that begs for close inspection and high-end playback equipment -- is still two months from getting a "definitive" reissue, whatever that will entail.

That Nirvana album was like a kiss-off to the industry and the jocks who latched onto Nevermind, recorded by one of the most uncompromising engineers in the history of rock music, and you can now go so far as to get it on pure blu-ray audio. That just blows my mind; Kurt must be spinning in his grave right now.

As for The Fragile, well..

Yeah, they did quite an amazing job with that reissue between the super deluxe CD packaging, vinyl versions, and Blu-ray release. A huge part of that probably goes to Steve Albini and the way he preserves everything on tape. The 2013 Mix is great as well with alternate takes, unheard layers, etc. In Utero is best sounding rock album I have ever heard.

Even Nevermind got a great reissue. I highly suggest everyone to check out the Devonshire Mixes on CD3 of Nevermind. These are Butch Vig's original versions before they were sent off to Andy Wallace to be mixed and then mastered. The only song left off was Polly because that was done elsewhere for the album. But the Devonshire Mixes are a million times better than the overcompressed, overpolished, shiny, smashed official release. Everything sounds fuller and rawer. The drums are more fuller, the guitars sound amazing, and Kurt's vocals sound great on the Devonshire Mixes. Much closer to what the band really sounds like. I highly suggest any Nirvana fan to get their hands on these from the reissue. I honestly don't even listen to the official release anymore. Don't get why they didn't promote the Devonshire Mixes like they did with the In Utero 2013 Mixes.

Now can Incesticide get a proper remaster please. I want to hear Aero Zeppelin all nice and remastered in 24 bit.

[NotoriousTIMP]

So the shit show continues...I just went into my email address that I used for my order looking for a way to get in touch with Sandbag. I don't usually use this email address except for PayPal or random work stuff so I hardly check it. I just came across this and now it seem like I need to pay SB back for their error. These guys REALLY need help with keeping their shit together....

[tony.parente]

Aaahahaha this shit show is absolutely amazing.

in b4 another apology email to all of us and another 20% off coupon.

[cheddamash]

The expected delivery date of my Deviations was supposed to be today. The USPS tracking shows that it started out in PA on June 27, went to NJ on June 27, then arrived in WA on July 1. That's the last time the tracking has been updated. Looks like I'm not getting it today. By the way, I live I KY, so the USPS has sent it to the opposite side of the United States. Anyone else having a similar problem?

Same. NJ to WA and I’m in fucking WI. Just in case the piss poor packaging wasn’t adequate enough for it’s original trip they’re gonna kick it around a few more days. Could this be any more of a cluster fuck all around?

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Trent's public statement on this whole Deviations disaster will be as follows: