Page 11 of 88 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11 12 13 21 61 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 330 of 2907

Thread: Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    Ok so you have guns to protect yourself from your government, yet it serves every other purposes than actually protecting yourself from the government.
    Like I said, thinking there will be a revolution or another civil war is insanity. Or at least I think it is ...

    I think I should have asked that question first but do you actually believe there's a problem with guns right now?
    You should probably reread my post. That isn't what I said. You really want me to talk about how GUNS can protect against government. I can certainly make the case for it but I think it is irrelevant to the current discussion (again, see above for why).


    Do I think there is a problem with guns right now? This question is way too open to really answer. It's like asking if there is an issue with the internet. I think guns can and are used for bad things. Would I like to see those bad things stopped? Fuck yes! Do I have an answer to the bad things? Nope! And I haven't see anyone else with one either. I see a lot of different opinions. I see a lot of people wanting politicians to give them something, anything to make them feel safe (bad, very bad, idea). We have tried and failed, with gun control, many times at the federal and state level. At least if we keep this at the state level we have 50 different places to try and get it right. Heck, I would start with the existing legislation and fix it before calling it a failure (which prompts us to either remove it or add more). Example: We have a national background check system that that half the states aren't reporting their murders, drug abuses, etc to. This completely screws up the ability of states to do proper background checks when doing gun sales. I mean... what the fuck!? Why is THAT not an important topic right now?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    2,649
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Double post but there was his news that was just released in Quebec.

    A man was seen in Mont-Tremblant with a gun near a gas station. 5 squad cars were immediately dispatched and arrested the gentlemen. It turned out to be a toy gun.
    The only thing I could think was "how much safer can it get?" I can't. I'm not saying bad things don't happen but the likelihood of getting shot here is so low.

    Don't you want that?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    2,649
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    You would have to do a retroactive background check. However, I believe you do not have a gun registry, which makes this task impossible.
    Is a gun registry something that was ever brought up?

    Also, I don't know your Constitution in details but could someone claim that his rights are being violated if asked for personal medical records when one try to purchase a gun?
    Last edited by Deepvoid; 01-09-2013 at 02:53 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    You would have to do a retroactive background check. However, I believe you do not have a gun registry, which makes this task impossible.
    Is a gun registry something that was ever brought up?

    Also, I don't know your Constitution in details but could someone claim that his rights are being violated if asked for personal medical records when one try to purchase a gun?
    You mean this? http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics Cause that is exactly the system I am talking about when half the states are failing to report info. Gun registries are a totally separate topic. Registries that exist are at the state level. California has one for handguns. Looks like they will have one for long guns in 1 year. We also do background checks (with NICS) for all handgun purchases. Criminals who move here from half the country are able to get handguns because the NICS report checks out OK.

    I am sure medical record sharing would very much be an invasion of privacy but the records I am talking about are mostly criminal.
    edit: the mental health records are considered separate for some reason. I don't have the details on that. Here is an entire report about the NICS failing due to mental health and substance abuse records not being reported: http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns....mimeo_revb.pdf
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 01-09-2013 at 03:19 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    2,649
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Then, register all 300 million guns. Everyone who has suffered any mental illness as simple as a depression (which is consider a mental illness anyway) should have their guns removed.
    Considering that roughly 20 million people each year are suffering from one kind of mental illness or another, you should be able to reduce greatly the number of guns within 10 years.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    In Flanders' fields
    Posts
    641
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    I think he's quite clearly referring to the original text, and not to the Supreme Courts most recent interpretation. No?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Yea, lets take a failing system and pile more on top of it instead of fixing it first. You would fit in well with the current politicians.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Jon Stewart interpreting 2nd Amendment vs Supreme Court interpreting 2nd Amendment.
    hrmmm... wonder which of those has more credibility and a deeper understanding of the Constitution...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    In Flanders' fields
    Posts
    641
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Jon Stewart interpreting 2nd Amendment vs Supreme Court interpreting 2nd Amendment.
    hrmmm... wonder which of those has more credibility and a deeper understanding of the Constitution...
    The fact that of that entire bit you've latched onto the one thing that wasn't actually at the core of his argument is telling, though. At the end of the day, it still is satire.

    But as to credibility: look at who those judges are, and look at who appointed them. Now ask yourself: how impartial are they?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Elke View Post
    look at who those judges are, and look at who appointed them. Now ask yourself: how impartial are they?
    They're impartial.

    Retired Justice Sandra Day O'Connor was appointed by President Ronald Reagan.

    Yet, she upheld Roe v. Wade.

    Justice John Paul Stevens was appointed by President Gerald Ford.

    Yet, he wrote one of the dissenting opinions in the above-referenced gun case.

    Chief Justice John Roberts was appointed by President George W Bush.

    Yet, he wrote the opinion upholding the Affordable Health Care Act ("Obamacare").

    The Supreme Court is bound to precedents and case law. Period. Yes, there are liberal and conservative interpretations but even those are limited to within the scope of case law citations.

    English Lit and Law are very similar (*): no critique is valid unless supported by the text.

    * Which is why so many legal scholars are also English Lit scholars, like my beloved Stanley Fish.
    Last edited by allegro; 01-10-2013 at 08:13 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    In Flanders' fields
    Posts
    641
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    They're impartial.
    I'm sorry, but as someone who lives in a country where seperation of the three powers goes as far as a minister of Justice not being allowed to inquire after the process of a high profile pedophelia scandal and two ministers stepping down because they recieved letters from a magistrate dealing with an inquiry into a third minister's decisions regarding a bank bail-out, the idea that the judges on a supreme court are politically appointed (being: appointed by members of another power) is... strange. Let me stick to strange.

    edit: To clarify: interpretation is part of, and it's a delicate exercise. There's a lot of imput from the interpreter. Coming from a completely different background, I know from experience that there are texts that lend themselves to be interpreted in much about any way.
    Last edited by Elke; 01-11-2013 at 02:29 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Elke View Post
    edit: To clarify: interpretation is part of, and it's a delicate exercise. There's a lot of input from the interpreter. Coming from a completely different background, I know from experience that there are texts that lend themselves to be interpreted in much about any way.
    Well, yes, and that's why we have nine U.S. Supreme Court justices. But, while opinions can definitely be subjective, U.S. Supreme Court Opinions can only be subjective so far as the case law and the precedents allow, i.e. a Justice's decision can't be "because I don't like this" or "because I don't believe in this." I suggest that you go look at one of the Opinions cited plus the dissenting Opinion(s) to see that each side makes a very careful and valid argument based on facts, legal precedents and case law, and not on personal preference or bias, and the interpretation is based on legal premise.
    Last edited by allegro; 01-11-2013 at 10:50 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Another week, another shooting
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...90910H20130110

    This time in a state with some of the most strict gun control.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    2,649
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Well you know what. It appears there's nothing that can be done. Kids get shot. Tough luck. Circle of life right?
    Those parents can make another baby.

    You said it yourself, you don't have any answers and no one else seems to have any answers. Is there even a problem?
    In the end, from where I come from, I don't have to worry about gun violence. So whenever there's a shooting in the US, it just makes for good discussion with a couple beers, while you are "sending prayers and thoughts". What a joke.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    Well you know what. It appears there's nothing that can be done. Kids get shot. Tough luck. Circle of life right?
    Those parents can make another baby.

    You said it yourself, you don't have any answers and no one else seems to have any answers. Is there even a problem?
    In the end, from where I come from, I don't have to worry about gun violence. So whenever there's a shooting in the US, it just makes for good discussion with a couple beers, while you are "sending prayers and thoughts". What a joke.
    LOL Those prayers are about as effective as the gun control.

    Giving up is lame. Simple minds want simple answers. They give up if there aren't any, but they are more likely to accept a simple bad answer than give up. I think the issue is very complex. I think we probably don't have enough info to find the proper solution. With how the US is structure, it would make sense to let the states trying their own methods of handling it. At least we have 50 different testbeds for the issue. We have a pretty bad track record for fixes on this issue. Why bottleneck yourself at the federal level where you only have 1 testbed, have to water it down so everyone agrees, make it very hard to repeal when it fails, etc.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Aurora Illinois seems to be doing something in the right direction:

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/01/...urora-in-2012/

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/1302244...ess-story.html

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Definitely! Though, I'd give it a couple years to make sure. I would also like to see all the violent crime stats (not just guns). Targeting gangs and repeat criminals seems like it would massively drop violent crime. It certainly goes along with the national stats this guy dug up:

    Gang's don't seem related to the crazy fuckers who walk into schools and public places and start shooting though. It will be difficult to find a fix there because of how infrequent they are.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Your point? I assume your bolding is an attempt to point out that there CAN be limits on the TYPE of weapon. No disagreement there! I'd note that things like an AR-15 are extremely common.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    2,649
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    The US is rooted in a culture of violence and war. Talking to you made me realize that you are indeed way over your head with this problem. The "right" is not interested in legislating or enforcing current legislation in any shape or form. The NRA is way too powerful and I suspect that Obama will do little to enforce anything Biden may come up with.

    The far right is even more paranoid with their conspiracy theory of government taking the guns away for whatever reasons they may come up with.

    My view is simple. Guns should only be used by a law enforcing agents and for hunting. That's it. An ordinary citizen should not feel the need to carry a gun.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    The US is rooted in a culture of violence and war. Talking to you made me realize that you are indeed way over your head with this problem. The "right" is not interested in legislating or enforcing current legislation in any shape or form. The NRA is way too powerful and I suspect that Obama will do little to enforce anything Biden may come up with.

    The far right is even more paranoid with their conspiracy theory of government taking the guns away for whatever reasons they may come up with.

    My view is simple. Guns should only be used by a law enforcing agents and for hunting. That's it. An ordinary citizen should not feel the need to carry a gun.
    The left and the right are all extremely fucked up. Our whole government is pretty fucked right now. I'm sure you are very well aware of that! Compared to that, guns are the least of our issue.

    Unless you are going to massively bump up law enforcement, I'd have to disagree. There just aren't enough of them to protect everyone. Hell, the Sandy shooting took the police TWENTY minutes to show up. Guns can be a great equalizer for those who are more prone to being victims. Our police are not able to protect everyone.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    The bold text points out the PRECEDENT cases, which is the basis of the SCOTUS opinion.

    See also the entire Opinion: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf (edit: Take a look at the DISSENTS, which takes up the majority of the document)

    We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.” See 4 Blackstone 148–149 (1769); 3 B. Wilson, Works of the Honourable James Wilson 79 (1804); J. Dunlap, The New-York Justice 8 (1815); C. Humphreys, A Compendium of the Common Law in Force in Kentucky 482 (1822); 1 W. Russell, A Treatise on Crimes and Indictable Misdemeanors 271–272 (1831); H. Stephen, Summary of the Criminal Law 48 (1840); E. Lewis, An Abridgment of the Criminal Law of the United States 64 (1847); F. Wharton, A Treatise on the Criminal Law of the United States 726 (1852). See also State v. Langford, 10 N. C. 381, 383–384 (1824); O’Neill v. State, 16 Ala. 65, 67 (1849); English v. State, 35 Tex. 473, 476 (1871); State v. Lanier, 71 N. C. 288, 289 (1874)

    It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.

    We turn finally to the law at issue here. As we have said, the law totally bans handgun possession in the home. It also requires that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock at all times, rendering it inoperable. As the quotations earlier in this opinion demonstrate, the inherent right of self-defense has been central to the Second Amendment right. The handgun ban amounts to a prohibition of an entire class of “arms” that is overwhelmingly chosen by American society for that lawful purpose. The prohibition extends, moreover, to the home, where the need for defense of self, family, and property is most acute. Under any of the standards of scrutiny that we have applied to enumerated constitutional rights, banning from the home “the most preferred firearm in the nation to ‘keep’ and use for protection of one’s home and family,” 478 F. 3d, at 400, would fail constitutional muster.

    Few laws in the history of our Nation have come close to the severe restriction of the District’s handgun ban. And some of those few have been struck down. In Nunn v. State, the Georgia Supreme Court struck down a prohibition on carrying pistols openly (even though it upheld a prohibition on carrying concealed weapons). See 1 Ga., at 251. In Andrews v. State, the Tennessee Supreme Court likewise held that a statute that forbade openly carrying a pistol “publicly or privately, without regard to time or place, or circumstances,” 50 Tenn., at 187, violated the state constitutional provision (which the court equated with the Second Amendment). That was so even though the statute did not restrict the carrying of long guns. Ibid. See also State v. Reid, 1 Ala. 612, 616–617 (1840) (“A statute which, under the pretence of regulating, amounts to a destruction of the right, or which requires arms to be so borne as to render them wholly useless for the purpose of defence, would be clearly unconstitutional”).

    It is no answer to say, as petitioners do, that it is permissible to ban the possession of handguns so long as the possession of other firearms (i.e., long guns) is allowed. It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon. There are many reasons that a citizen may prefer a handgun for home defense: It is easier to store in a location that is readily accessible in an emergency; it cannot easily be redirected or wrestled away by an attacker; it is easier to use for those without the upper-body strength to lift and aim a long gun; it can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police. Whatever the reason, handguns are the most popular weapon chosen by Americans for self-defense in the home, and a complete prohibition of their use is invalid.
    Pp. 55-57.

    Curious: Are you in law?
    Last edited by allegro; 01-10-2013 at 07:30 PM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    There is nothing in there that I disagree with. My point is that Stewart's interpretation about muskets and militias is very off-base compared to the people who's job it is to interpret the Constitution.


    I'm not in law. I'm an IT geek who believes in testing and releasing solid products. I'll research the hell out of anything that interests me. Politics has always been an interest. I've seen how horribly our politicians can fail us. How laws can be signed without reading them. How politicians can know nothing about a topic and produce horrible legislation (SOPA/PIPA, Assault Weapons, Patriot Act, NDAA, etc). I also enjoy learning through debate!

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    2,649
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Exactly, your police.
    Ours is doing just fine here.

    What you're saying is that there's no enough police officers to protect everyone, therefore, citizen needs to be arm in order to fill that "gap" in defending themselves from violent people or criminal. Do you see how fucked up that is?
    Is there another country in who thinks that way? I don't mean no disrespect but from your statement, I'd think you'd be living in a shithole.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    Exactly, your police.
    Ours is doing just fine here.

    What you're saying is that there's no enough police officers to protect everyone, therefore, citizen needs to be arm in order to fill that "gap" in defending themselves from violent people or criminal. Do you see how fucked up that is?
    Is there another country in who thinks that way? I don't mean no disrespect but from your statement, I'd think you'd be living in a shithole.
    Yup, there is a big difference on that end. I like being self-sufficient. I am frequently disappointed when I count on others (especially politicians). I also feel like I am a bit of a minority on that topic. We live in this weird limbo where everyone is given the responsibility but most have the expectation that someone else will take care of their problems. That just doesn't work. That is a great high-level perspective on many of the issue within the US. The US has heavy roots in self-sufficiency. There were great times when everyone was self-sufficient. Sure, people depend on local community but that's very different than the change toward federal government you see lately. Many want to preserve this. Many want to change it.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    S. Carolina
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Let me take a minute to address exactly what Stewart points were...

    "None of these [laws/restrictions] will ever be perfect. We're not looking for some magic flying solving projectile. We're looking for a series of steps from different areas, that over time can improve the situation…" "But why is it that there in no other issue in this country, with as dire public safety consequences as this, that we are unable to make even the most basic steps towards putting together a complex plan of action to slow this epidemic spread?

    "Here's the problem: technology has democratized carnage. And it's very weird to me that some gun enthusiasts won't even entertain the idea of commonsense law-enforcement-supported moves to try to reign in this violence."
    He said nothing about striking down the 2nd amendment, nor did he question the interpretation of the 2nd amendment by the Supreme Court. Measures to restrict guns, like the Brady Bill or the expired assault weapons ban, were never considered unconstitutional. Why do gun advocates, for lack of a better term, jump the gun and assume that more restrictions will alienate their constitutional rights? That's the basic definition of fear-mongering. It's using assumptions to exaggerate something that doesn't exist yet. Let a bill hit the floor of Congress, then discuss if it's unconstitutional or not. Until then, calm down.

    Stewart, in regards to the language ofthe 2nd amendment:
    "Yeah, for a well-regulated militia, not a personal arsenal free-for-all."
    Stewart wasn't talking about the militia part, he was talking about the well-regulated part. Yes, a militia does refer to individual citizens. But these arms they use must be well-regulated. Who makes these regulations? Lawmakers. How do they regulate guns? Laws.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Presideo View Post
    Why do gun advocates, for lack of a better term, jump the gun and assume that more restrictions will alienate their constitutional rights?
    It's the old "slippery slope" argument. The same is used by the pro choice movement, saying that any limitation of abortion, at all, is a slippery slope (even though limitations are CLEARLY set, and given to the States, in Roe v. Wade, but most of them have never read Roe v Wade).

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    It's the old "slippery slope" argument. The same is used by the pro choice movement, saying that any limitation of abortion, at all, is a slippery slope (even though limitations are CLEARLY set, and given to the States, in Roe v. Wade, but most of them have never read Roe v Wade).
    Well, even with clearly defined limitations, the slippery slope argument still holds. It allows for a series of small steps where the limitations are slowly nudged in the negative direction, especially when you have an unrelenting force trying to do so. How many times have we seen SOPA/PIPA type proposals now? Limitations can always be redefined.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,210
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)
    The best part of Stewarts bit is the facetious "Well if we don't succeed the first time, give up!" I agree with him there, but that's why I think it's insane to try and solve it at the federal level. With our track record of failed gun legislation.. Why bottleneck yourself at the federal level where you only have 1 testbed, have to water it down so everyone agrees, make it very hard to repeal when it fails, etc. Let us use states for 50 parallel testbeds where the laws can be more potent and more diverse.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    The best part of Stewarts bit is the facetious "Well if we don't succeed the first time, give up!" I agree with him there, but that's why I think it's insane to try and solve it at the federal level. With our track record of failed gun legislation.. Why bottleneck yourself at the federal level where you only have 1 testbed, have to water it down so everyone agrees, make it very hard to repeal when it fails, etc. Let us use states for 50 parallel testbeds where the laws can be more potent and more diverse.
    Well, there's no need for any kind of experimentation. Gun Control, throughout the rest of the developed world, has been an overwhelming success. The vast majority of those successes being laws far stricter than those in the US. As for solving things at the federal level - it's the only thing that really makes sense, seeing as people can move and trade from state to state. Local gun laws can only be so effective if you can run across the state line and buy one at Wal-Mart. Local attempts for strict control would be undone by less restrictive laws elsewhere.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    1,957
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Ex Machina View Post
    Well, there's no need for any kind of experimentation. Gun Control, throughout the rest of the developed world, has been an overwhelming success. The vast majority of those successes being laws far stricter than those in the US. As for solving things at the federal level - it's the only thing that really makes sense, seeing as people can move and trade from state to state. Local gun laws can only be so effective if you can run across the state line and buy one at Wal-Mart. Local attempts for strict control would be undone by less restrictive laws elsewhere.
    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions