Controversial Music Opinions...

[Jinsai]

Nah, I'm not saying they're the same sort of stuff. The biggest similarity that I see is that I personally dislike both groups with an equal intensity.

I really didn't care about the Dead for the longest time, and I used to think a lot of their music was annoying. Actually, a lot of their songs are still annoying to me, but whatever.

I just think it's important to note what makes them interesting, especially when we're talking about them in the same sentence as generic repetitive riff rock like AC/DC. The Grateful Dead took an incredibly unique and original approach, and their body of work is incredibly difficult to decipher as a result. More so than any other band I can think of, their legacy revolves around their live show. The studio recordings of songs are rarely considered by fans to be the definitive version, and they'll argue endlessly over which bootleg is the best... and the bootleg collection is enormous, and every one of them is different. Sure, sometimes their jam sessions turn into wanky noodling, but sometimes it produced some really amazing results. The thing is you have to sift through it to find them, and that can be a daunting (and sometimes frustrating) task, especially if you don't have someone helping you out.

I can't think of any other band that resembles that, and whether or not it's your thing, I think it deserves some acknowledgement. Musically they were an incredibly diverse group too. Even if you're not into the twangy bluesy stuff, there's some really trippy stuff in there too. I think the "drums and space" jam segments of their live shows are particularly cool.



I think most of that performance is pretty great (with some unfortunate missteps), but the segment that starts at 7:00 is particularly awesome

[BlueCalx]

Okay, I'm going to try to start a new path for this thread that takes us away from AC/DC.... Um, Taylor Swift is queen of my heart? That'll have to do. She's talented, gracious, easily likable, and can pull a hook out of nowhere on every track. She's got a good head on her shoulders, steadily growing to superstardom from being the cute teenage girl who sings about slow-dancing in the moonlight to Tim McGraw, and somehow still hasn't lost herself in the craziness. Sure, the breadth of her songwriting is mainly "I like boys but sometimes break-ups can be painful," but hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. She's honest and straightforward and very relatable in her songs, and in her personal/public life is not prone to gossip or drama. If I need something fun and catchy to listen to, without having to focus too hard, she's my go-to girl.

So yes. There's that. Also, I came to this conclusion only this year, from being snarky and dismissive of her to having a poster of her hanging up in my room. I'm... an embarrassing fanboy. But I can't help it.

Awesome post. Taylor's quite loveable, isn't she? She gets points from me for having a Scottish Fold, the best kind of cat there is. Next time you're feeling a bit blue, picture little Meredith bopping along to "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together". If your heart doesn't melt, you are Count fucking Dracula.

[BlueCalx]

I really didn't care about the Dead for the longest time, and I used to think a lot of their music was annoying. Actually, a lot of their songs are still annoying to me, but whatever.

I just think it's important to note what makes them interesting, especially when we're talking about them in the same sentence as generic repetitive riff rock like AC/DC. The Grateful Dead took an incredibly unique and original approach, and their body of work is incredibly difficult to decipher as a result. More so than any other band I can think of, their legacy revolves around their live show. The studio recordings of songs are rarely considered by fans to be the definitive version, and they'll argue endlessly over which bootleg is the best... and the bootleg collection is enormous, and every one of them is different. Sure, sometimes their jam sessions turn into wanky noodling, but sometimes it produced some really amazing results. The thing is you have to sift through it to find them, and that can be a daunting (and sometimes frustrating) task, especially if you don't have someone helping you out.

I can't think of any other band that resembles that, and whether or not it's your thing, I think it deserves some acknowledgement. Musically they were an incredibly diverse group too. Even if you're not into the twangy bluesy stuff, there's some really trippy stuff in there too. I think the "drums and space" jam segments of their live shows are particularly cool.



I think most of that performance is pretty great (with some unfortunate missteps), but the segment that starts at 7:00 is particularly awesome

A well-written defense of a band many people (me among them) have written off as not worth the effort. The thing you posted was actually pretty dope. If I'm ever housebound for a solid month with some horrible ailment, I'll go on a Grateful Dead kick.

[frankie teardrop]

Industrial music is generally defined as electronic, hard edge dance music with darker themes

no.

[Sutekh]

Yeah it really isn't... Industrial is like musique concrete with an emphasis on textures amd sounds related to modern environments and experiences... I'm still not sure why this goth techno stuff has become synonymous with the term "industrial"

[onthewall2983]

I like the Dead, but I thought Santana and the Allman Brothers were way better at jamming. Especially Santana from the beginning up to the Lotus album. The guitar playing in the Dead by comparison to those two groups always sounded a bit sloppy. One exception to that is the title track to Terrapin Station, which almost borders on prog-rock.

[aggroculture]

Yeah it really isn't... Industrial is like musique concrete with an emphasis on textures amd sounds related to modern environments and experiences... I'm still not sure why this goth techno stuff has become synonymous with the term "industrial"

Probably because it's been the most commercially successful. Also, I wouldn't say the strict dichotomy between industrial as avant-art and "goth techno" is really fair, there are plenty of bands who do both. As Skinny Puppy said "we're talking Throbbing Gristle to the dancefloor." Ministry, KMFDM, Laibach and the whole Wax Trax scene drew from both camps.

[Magtig]

I like the Dead, but I thought Santana and the Allman Brothers were way better at jamming.

Creedence brother, Creedence!

[frankie teardrop]

Probably because it's been the most commercially successful. Also, I wouldn't say the strict dichotomy between industrial as avant-art and "goth techno" is really fair, there are plenty of bands who do both. As Skinny Puppy said "we're talking Throbbing Gristle to the dancefloor." Ministry, KMFDM, Laibach and the whole Wax Trax scene drew from both camps.

i mean, that's well and good. NIN are often considered industrial as well, to the bitter chagrin of purists everywhere. i realize there's a hybrid genre there with those kind of bands. ministry/nin operating in industrial-metal turf, but i always considered skinny puppy, nitzer ebb, etc. to be EBM (electronic body music, as coined by front 242), which is what i've always pegged the dance-oriented bands as, past and present.

and while i love the 80s/early 90s crop of EBM bands, what passes off as it now just makes me despair, especially when ignorantly called industrial.

[Magtig]

Well every label goes through a bastardization process once it becomes popular. "Punk" went from The Ramones to Black Flag to Blink fucking 182 for fuck sake. Emo music even has a few good bands at its inception (Cursive comes to mind, although they were hardly the beginning).

It's sounds cliche, but they really are just labels.

[frankie teardrop]

yeah, it's an uphill battle about labeling genres, but that one has always peppered my peaches.

[Sutekh]

I would say wax trax stuff is industrial dance and NIN, some killing joke et al is industrial rock... Rock music with industrial textures and approaches. Industrial-industrial is TG, Coil

But i's worth remembering there is no governing body that defines these things

[Fixer808]

peaches.

we're spanning !

[Senateguard33]

Yeah it really isn't... Industrial is like musique concrete with an emphasis on textures amd sounds related to modern environments and experiences... I'm still not sure why this goth techno stuff has become synonymous with the term "industrial"

Isn't the goth techno usually in the EBM category?

[Jinsai]

Probably because it's been the most commercially successful. Also, I wouldn't say the strict dichotomy between industrial as avant-art and "goth techno" is really fair, there are plenty of bands who do both. As Skinny Puppy said "we're talking Throbbing Gristle to the dancefloor." Ministry, KMFDM, Laibach and the whole Wax Trax scene drew from both camps.

I don't know, I would take that Puppy quote with a grain of salt. Sure, some of their stuff has more of a groove to it, and would fall more in the "dance" related category than other material, but I don't think of Skinny Puppy as "dance music" in the slightest. Maybe that has something more to do with the fact that my favorite SP albums are Last Rights and Too Dark Park, and I don't see anything remotely dancey about those. Then again, the first bands that spring to mind when I hear the word "industrial" though are Einsturzende Neubauten and Throbbing Gristle.

[carpenoctem]

Awesome post. Taylor's quite loveable, isn't she? She gets points from me for having a Scottish Fold, the best kind of cat there is. Next time you're feeling a bit blue, picture little Meredith bopping along to "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together". If your heart doesn't melt, you are Count fucking Dracula.

lol, yeah she's forever posting pics of Meredith on Facebook. I'm a HUGE cat person, so this makes me happy, because when we get married I know I won't have to force her on the cat issue.

/creepy

[Necrodoommonkey]

Creedence brother, Creedence!

CCR seriously doesn't get enough love around here...although Fogerty's solo stuff is a bit crap.

[henryeatscereal]

CCR seriously doesn't get enough love around here...although Fogerty's solo stuff is a bit crap.

Credence it's an awesome and underrated band, "Cosmo's Factory" it's one of the greatest records of the 70's, they deserve love in my book they are in the same league as Dylan, Alman Brothers and even The Doors!

[aggroculture]

I like the music of Katy Perry.

[frankie teardrop]

can't say i agree, but i do enjoy looking at her from time to time.

[DVYDRNS]

doesnt seem to be that controversial but that new HTDA track sucks.

[BlueCalx]

doesnt seem to be that controversial but that new HTDA track sucks.

I don't hate it, but I do think it would be nice if they would try to meet their audience halfway and put out something with a hook, a melody, or a sense of energy, rather than these four minute collections of different cool noises from Trent and Atticus's laptops with Mariqueen cooing dejectedly overtop.

[Jinsai]

I don't hate it, but I do think it would be nice if they would try to meet their audience halfway and put out something with a hook, a melody, or a sense of energy, rather than these four minute collections of different cool noises from Trent and Atticus's laptops with Mariqueen cooing dejectedly overtop.

I haven't heard it yet, but that description already sounds cooler than what I was expecting.

[hobochic]

Lana del Rey, her style of performing and her music turns me on more than HDA or anything NIN has put out in years

[Fixer808]

If anybody mocks you for liking Violator, I have two words: Blue Dress.

How did I miss this? Enjoy the Silence is my fave DM song. Brilliant album.

[carpenoctem]

I don't hate it, but I do think it would be nice if they would try to meet their audience halfway and put out something with a hook, a melody, or a sense of energy, rather than these four minute collections of different cool noises from Trent and Atticus's laptops with Mariqueen cooing dejectedly overtop.

The day anyone in Camp Reznor starts trying to "meet their audience halfway" will be a sad one, indeed. I'd rather them do what they want instead of do what we think they should do (passing over the fact that NIN fans are always divided over what they want anyway). Anyway, this track is more about tension and anticipation, like waiting for the other shoe to drop, and I think it's deliberate, not because they can't write a hook anymore but because that's the mood they were going for here. Keep in mind this is only the first track of the EP (Spoiler: and, if the last.fm leak is to be believed, the first track of the LP as well), so the rest will be different I'm sure.

I do agree that it probably shouldn't have been the first single if they wanted to really hype us up, but I like it when bands release the least interesting tracks first, so when I finally get the full product I'm surprised by how much better it is.

Lana del Rey, her style of performing and her music turns me on more than HDA or anything NIN has put out in years

God, I love LDR so much. Her LP is definitely going in my top 5 this year, and that's saying something, there's been a lot of great music released in 2012.

[BlueCalx]

The day anyone in Camp Reznor starts trying to "meet their audience halfway" will be a sad one, indeed. I'd rather them do what they want instead of do what we think they should do

Erm... wasn't the ARG around Year Zero just a big handjob for the section of the fanbase that had played too much Halo? Over the years, it seems to me that Reznor's been quite good at meeting his audience halfway, hence the freebie releases, the farewell tour, the candid interviews, etc. Where people get this idea that there's this binary in music where an artist is either boldly going his own way, kicking against the pricks and fuck you if you don't like it, or a pandering pop puppet a la Britney is completely beyond me. HTDA has signed to Columbia, didn't you know? Mr. DIY himself has turned back up at the doorstep of a major label, hat in hand. That decision seems to imply a desire to market this music, tour it, and have an audience that's slightly bigger than just NIN diehards who like everything Reznor puts out and bearded sound designers wanting to get a front seat for the Cool Noises Express. That's why it confuses me that after all that, the lead single is audio chloroform.

I haven't heard the rest of An omen___. For all I know, it rocks as hard as Broken. Or, hell, it could be so packed with hooks that it puts the Max Martin end of the music business to shame. This track, though, is exactly like everything we've heard from HTDA so far - a slow, quiet meander toward sleep. You don't have much context to go on, either. What you wrote read to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that you like it in spite of itself and that you're anxiously awaiting the rest of the record to come along and blow it out of the water. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, I say.

[Magtig]

Erm... wasn't the ARG around Year Zero just a big handjob for the section of the fanbase that Trent Reznor, who had played too much Halo?

Yes, yes it was.

[carpenoctem]

Erm... wasn't the ARG around Year Zero just a big handjob for the section of the fanbase that had played too much Halo? Over the years, it seems to me that Reznor's been quite good at meeting his audience halfway, hence the freebie releases, the farewell tour, the candid interviews, etc. Where people get this idea that there's this binary in music where an artist is either boldly going his own way, kicking against the pricks and fuck you if you don't like it, or a pandering pop puppet a la Britney is completely beyond me. HTDA has signed to Columbia, didn't you know? Mr. DIY himself has turned back up at the doorstep of a major label, hat in hand.

As far as going back to a major label for the new release, I don't care one way or another; I'm not so much interested in the business end of music as the final creative result. The only time I dislike labels is when they won't let their artists release what they want because it's not marketable enough, so as long as Columbia's not like, "Okay, but could you maybe work in a Skrillex collab on this one?" then I'm cool. Actually I'm happy they have Columbia to back them on this, because that means they have the wherewithal to make and promote the new album. Plus, they'll be forced to stick to a target release date and we won't have another year of teasing and vague hints that don't lead anywhere.

The "giving us what we want" thing just sounds like somewhere, a 90's-era casual NIN fan is having a daydream about Trent on stage in front of a million screaming fans, playing Closer nine times in a row like it's Niggas In Paris.

What you wrote read to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that you like it in spite of itself and that you're anxiously awaiting the rest of the record to come along and blow it out of the water. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, I say.

I don't like the song in spite of itself, because that would basically mean I'm forcing myself to like it due to being a Trent fanboy (which, I admit, I totally am). I like it for what it is - a slightly menacing ambient pulse that favors space over hooks. Though I do agree it's no groundbreaking new direction, that's not necessarily what I'm expecting from him. And I think it'll probably be like A Drowning - the least interesting song on the EP (though still pretty good).

[BlueCalx]

In 2012, business decisions are creative decisions. Ask Amanda Palmer how much of an impact the way an artist chooses to fund a project has on the way the project comes together, and the way the project is received. That he went back to a major when he could have bankrolled it himself, signed to an indie, or used Kickstarter is a big clue as to the sort of content we'll be getting, and the way it will be promoted.

It looks as though you have this black-or-white attitude about the creative process. It seems like, to you, in order for an artist to make something truly authentic, it must be done in a vacuum, reflective only of what's going on in the creator's mind at the time. Thinking about the way the piece will be received once it's published pollutes the purity of the process, watering it down and rendering the final product bland or sanitized. Am I right-on here? I couldn't disagree more with that line of thinking. When I say 'meet the audience halfway', I don't mean "Closer II", or Skrillex brought on as co-producer, or features from Katy Perry, Dave Grohl, Snoop Dogg, anything like that. I mean that I wish the lead single was something that was meant to engage. More volume, maybe, or like I said, more melody or energy or something that makes a statement, any sort of statement other than "I need a rest". I find it to be cowardly and half-hearted. "Here's our new track, but I don't really want you to listen to it. Just put it on in the background, if you like. I'm leaving it there, bye, now. A true fan will make the effort, but it's more than OK if you don't."