Coronavirus - COVID-19

[allegro]

I read that and all I can think of is the USA show Royal Pains - - and I wonder how much worse things are because of these people.

Concierge medicine is actually growing in popularity around me, because people are so sick of Big Box medicine and how much it REALLY costs and the horrendous wait times and shitty care.

With concierge care, your doctor is not a part of a Big Box hospital group. Your doctor is on call for you. Your bill is itemized. You don’t get overcharged like with Big Box. It just LOOKS like more because of that annual fee.

My doctor isn’t concierge but belongs to a medical practice that is in a Big Box (hospital group). So the costs reflect their costs plus the hospital group costs; TWO groups with overhead.

The cost of medicine right now is way higher due to hospital group monopolies.

[allegate]

cool, appreciate the information.

[chuckrh]

Concierge medicine is actually growing in popularity around me, because people are so sick of Big Box medicine and how much it REALLY costs and the horrendous wait times and shitty care.

With concierge care, your doctor is not a part of a Big Box hospital group. Your doctor is on call for you. Your bill is itemized. You don’t get overcharged like with Big Box. It just LOOKS like more because of that annual fee.

My doctor isn’t concierge but belongs to a medical practice that is in a Big Box (hospital group). So the costs reflect their costs plus the hospital group costs; TWO groups with overhead.

The cost of medicine right now is way higher due to hospital group monopolies.

I've been doing concierge for years. The group of doctors is loosely affliliated with a hospital but their office is in their own building. Everything is basically covered for in office stuff except lab work they have to send out. That includes a yearly physical. With all that I've had to deal with, the extra attention is good. Of course, my insurance won't cover it as it's outside the norm & not as much room to grab cash from patients. It's worth it to me though. My doctor was so sick of the big box that he was going to quit being a doctor until this came up. & he's 1 of the highest rated internists in the area. My insurance goes into effect with the specialists.

[Jinsai]

Worst part is Joe Rogan summing his personal experience the way he did is just going to fuel these anti vaccine arguments. People who listen to him and want their anti vaccine stance confirmed just got it. “If I do catch it, I can take horse paste and all this other shit and I will be fine. Sunday will suck, but that’s ok.”

They can cherry pick the talking point anecdotes. This is just another way to ignore the COVID deaths from other anti vaccine talking heads

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.van...ying-covid/amp

[sweeterthan]

i hate joe rogan. i can’t understand why he’s so popular. who is listening to him.


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[Demogorgon]

Where did this whole idea come from, anyway, that a horse medication was somehow going to treat this disease? Who was the first person to look at that and say, "yup, that looks like a great plan."? I just don't get it.

[allegate]

I think it was the age-old "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" approach to a worldwide pandemic.

[Erneuert]

What has Roe Jogan done now?

[otnavuskire]

What has Roe Jogan done now?

Got COVID and treated it with horse de-wormer, amongst other things.

[Jinsai]

I think it was the age-old "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" approach to a worldwide pandemic.

I personally suspect this is the work of internet trolls laughing at being able to convince gullible people to take horse dewormer medication.

The first time I heard about Ivermectin being a cure for COVID, it was from a Facebook post by a conservative acquaintance who "knew someone who took it and it cured it in a day." Same group of people that I saw originally talking about using Zinc. You only need to trick a few morons to start a rumor going. I didn't hear about Ivermectin in the news or what it really actually was until a few days later, when people were starting to be hospitalized because they took it.

If this is a bunch of trolls from 4Chan starting a ridiculous rumor, they've gotta be laughing their asses off that Joe Rogan took it.

[BRoswell]

If this is a bunch of trolls from 4Chan starting a ridiculous rumor, they've gotta be laughing their asses off that Joe Rogan took it.

It's either that, or someone who was losing a lot of money in their ivermectin stake.

[allegro]

Where did this whole idea come from, anyway, that a horse medication was somehow going to treat this disease? Who was the first person to look at that and say, "yup, that looks like a great plan."? I just don't get it.

They scour medical journals:

https://journals.lww.com/americanthe...ment_of.7.aspx

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z

https://ann-clinmicrob.biomedcentral...41-020-00368-w


Problem is, you can’t get THAT ivermectin without a doctor or prescription.

So they go to Farm and Fleet and buy a tube of the OTC kind intended for horses. Except THAT kind isn’t meant for human consumption, is mixed with God knows what, and the DOSAGE in a tube is intended for an animal that weighs 1,000 to 2,000+ POUNDS. So they GUESS at a dosage. And get really sick.

[allegate]

On top of that it was a study that was kind of like the "vaccines cause autism" study that was eventually recalled.

Flawed ivermectin preprint highlights challenges of COVID drug studies

Throughout the pandemic, the anti-parasite drug ivermectin has attracted much attention, particularly in Latin America, as a potential way to treat COVID-19. But scientists say that recent, shocking revelations of widespread flaws in the data of a preprint study reporting that the medication greatly reduces COVID-19 deaths dampens ivermectin’s promise — and highlights the challenges of investigating drug efficacy during a pandemic.

lol, same article that @allegro posted but I think this is the one to point to.

[Erneuert]

Got COVID and treated it with horse de-wormer, amongst other things.

Oh ffs.

And what made him think that was a good idea?

[allegate]

I mean...

*gestures vaguely*

[Erneuert]

Shouldn’t he be enlightened from all his DMT trips not to do something stupid like that?

[elevenism]

They scour medical journals:


Problem is, you can’t get THAT ivermectin without a doctor or prescription.

So they go to Farm and Fleet and buy a tube of the OTC kind intended for horses. Except THAT kind isn’t meant for human consumption, is mixed with God knows what, and the DOSAGE in a tube is intended for an animal that weighs 1,000 to 2,000+ POUNDS. So they GUESS at a dosage. And get really sick.

Exactly. THAT'S what people are missing, here. Ivermectin isn't just horse dewormer. It has multiple human applications and earned the person who discovered it a Nobel prize. And, it HAS at least APPEARED to show SOME potential in reducing covid deaths.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...52297521000883
Also, it's BEEN being prescribed by some doctors already: I read that there was a 20 something fold increase in ivermectin prescriptions since the outbreak, compared to pre pandemic prescription numbers.
Joe Rogan, for instance, has access to the best healthcare in the world, I'd reckon. I doubt he bought any of HIS treatments from the feed store.
But that's not going to stop desperate/poor/uneducated people from doing so. It's actually kind of sad. They just wanna get better.
I can't help but feel as though the media has been somewhat condescending, here.
I'm assuming that the reason they're leaving out the full context, and suggesting the substance in question is ONLY an antiparasitic for horses, is intended scare the shit out of people so as to keep them from ingesting animal medicine.
It reminds me of the news graphic a month or two ago showing my county as a having a "HIGH RATE OF TRANSMISSION" during a certain week, but when I fact checked it, our average number of cases was zero.
Like I said when THAT happened: I get what they're GOING for? But a "ends justify the means" approach to the news makes me uneasy. So do flawed/biased scientific papers. The one I linked above is more promising, but IT might ALSO be horseshit, albeit, shit that's likely parasite free.

[Erneuert]

The one I linked above is more promising, but IT might ALSO be horseshit, albeit, shit that's likely parasite free.

hehehehehe

[botley]

Joe Rogan, for instance, has access to the best healthcare in the world, I'd reckon. I doubt he bought any of HIS treatments from the feed store.
But that's not going to stop desperate/poor/uneducated people from doing so. It's actually kind of sad. They just wanna get better.

While I sympathize with the plight of people too poor to afford healthcare, believe me, that read on this situation is also a reductive one. This a politicized pandemic. People are in active rebellion against the medical establishment. Against nurses and doctors. Against public health officials, in particular, for attempting to slow down the spread of this deadly virus. The people prioritizing the use of this medicine for unclear benefits at WHATEVER COST, including commandeering the courts to override their doctors' advice, and/or poisoning themselves by going the back-alley route and filling up the overflowing hospital wards even more, don't "just wanna get better". They want to WIN their little battles, against whomever they feel is responsible for their problems (which, more often than not, is conflated with filthy foreigners, heathen Jews, or abominable trans people, or whatever other nonsense conspiracy it's wrapped up in, I don't know because I couldn't care less about how JRE frames it specifically). So yeah, if the mainstream read on this medicine's largely unproven benefits for general use is dismissive, maybe it's because we don't have time for this shit when the ones touting this won't advocate for the minimum preventative measures that we know actually work.

[allegate]

I would only add to your comment about "against the medical establishment" to be "against the medical establishment until it affects their health" because they still go to the hospital when it backfires.

[elevenism]

Well, and you're not wrong in viewing it that way, either, @botley .

I just tend to think of "the least of us," you know? My first thought is of people who have no other solution.
I've SEEN poor people in East Texas treat sickness with animal medicine from the feed store because they couldn't afford to see a doctor.
I suppose I'm just a bleeding heart type.
Then, I think of people who don't know better.

I'm ALSO slightly offended by the tone adopted by some of these newscasters. Also, i feel a dull horror regarding fact that the story claiming rural Oklahoma hospitals are unable to treat the influx of :P ahem, RURAL. OKLAHOMAN. GUNSHOT VICTIMS :P continues to be propagated, despite a thorough and utter debunking. Are we to sink to the level of Orange Man and his cohorts, disseminating fake news stories, even in the face of glaring inaccuracies? Is this the appropriate path?

I think that there should be more available news like the link below, as in facts, minus partisan musings.
This is from the NIH. Give it a read and see what you think.
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelin...py/ivermectin/

Edit: also, when I mention people using animal medicine, I'm talking about things that WORK, SAFELY.
The irony of the OK hoax story is that a damn good percentage of people in rural OK are FAMILIAR with livestock and livestock drugs. As such, THEY'D know not to misuse this particular drug.

[botley]

I've SEEN poor people in East Texas treat sickness with animal medicine from the feed store because they couldn't afford to see a doctor.
I suppose I'm just a bleeding heart type.
Then, I think of people who don't know better.

I'm ALSO slightly offended by the tone adopted by some of these newscasters. Also, i feel a dull horror regarding fact that the story claiming rural Oklahoma hospitals are unable to treat the influx of :P ahem, RURAL. OKLAHOMAN. GUNSHOT VICTIMS :P continues to be propagated, despite a thorough and utter debunking. Are we to sink to the level of Orange Man and his cohorts, disseminating fake news stories, even in the face of glaring inaccuracies? Is this the appropriate path?

The irony of the OK hoax story is that a damn good percentage of people in rural OK are FAMILIAR with livestock and livestock drugs. As such, THEY'D know not to misuse this particular drug.

Of course not but that's social media. The lie that travels before truth puts its pants on, etc.

It would just be annoying that hoaxes existed, too, if only they didn't cause additional stress on an incredibly delicate and very finite essential resource like FOR EXAMPLE an overworked and overextended health care system dealing with an onslaught of highly contagious people who are dying by the thousands while their families line up outside to scream obscenities at the workers trying to leave after attempting to save their lives.

The "results inconclusive" part of that link is all I need to see when WEAR A FUCKING MASK, TAKE A FUCKING VACCINE is what we've been yelling at the top of our lungs for months and people like Joe goddamn Rogan still won't do it.

[Jinsai]

I think the thing is, as soon as you suggest "there actually is a form of this drug with the same name that may have some beneficial effect, possibly" it's ultimately just encouraging people to take horse paste. People aren't looking for the best solution, they're looking for "any fucking thing I can drink/inject that will save me from this virus that IS NOT THE VACCINE!" People were drinking bleach! Literally drinking bleach, because Trump threw that one out there.
This line in the sand goes beyond Trump now in its political affiliation; it's now evolved to being about ego preservation, and an unwillingness to admit they were wrong...

And that's something that I am increasingly finding it difficult to empathize with.

There's a free vaccine out there, and unlike horse de-wormer, it isn't going to kill you and it is free.... but to a lot of people, because of partisan looniness, paranoid thinking, ignorance, and a desperate need to have been right all along, they would rather take their chances with the horse paste. And like @botley said more or less, we do not have time for that shit.

[elevenism]

But, it ISN'T just social media.
THIS shit is still running strong.
The headline is still there. The correction isn't included in the false headlines.

AGAIN, there isn't REALLY a rural hospital in Oklahoma hurting for room for gunshot victims.

I'm an old school grimy dirty Dallas tagger/tagbanger. I've not owned a car in my adult life. I'm a city cat. Train rider. Longhair.
But I came back here. I'm a 6th generation Texan. My direct ancestors, who died in the mid 1800s are buried here, 15 miles from the OK border. Bush Jr worked for MY grandfather, here.
All of that? That's part of who I am, too.

And suddenly, for the first time in my life, I feel like they're trying to make people who live where I live look stupid, through the use of repeated lies.

This is honestly the first time in my life that I've ever felt defensive of this area.

[allegate]

I'm curious what part of

Oklahoma's ERs are so backed up with people overdosing on ivermectin that gunshot victims are having to wait to be treated, a doctor says

is incorrect.

What fix should they issue? I'm genuinely interested because you say that the hospitals aren't full so I'd like to see that data.

[elevenism]

I'm curious what part of is incorrect.

What fix should they issue? I'm genuinely interested because you say that the hospitals aren't full so I'd like to see that data.

So here's this

Basically, the source for this story was Dr. Jason McElyea. It originated in Rolling Stone and picked up steam from there. This doctor hadn't worked at the hospital he was describing in at least two months.

Said hospital officially stated that there had been 0 horse fuck overdoses on their watch. Furthermore, they said, and I paraphrase, "whoa, whoa. We've not SEEN this grim bastard in weeks! He's got us fucked up!"
I went down a long rabbit hole and found that this particular quote was the source of ALL of these stories.
Furthermore, I'll add an anecdote: living in the Texas panhandle, I see a doctor at a rural, regional OK hospital on a regular basis.
They've had a couple of covid spikes since the pandemic began, mind you. They HAVE had a (small) hospital full of covid patients, twice.
The protocol to see the doctor, then, was obviously intense.
I'm there for a couple of hours every month.
In the past 16 months, I've observed exactly 0 gunshot victims.
How often do gunshot victims show up at rural West Virginia hospitals?

Edit: this is NOT, @allegate , to be confused with the lack of ICU beds resulting from the recent Covid spike. I'd imagine THAT'S true.
What pisses ME off is the implication that so many No Man's Landers overdosed on Horse Medicine, that bullet wound patients were unable to be treated at RURAL hospitals.

[allegro]

Yeah, that Rolling Stone story is total bullshit. It’s been debunked BY THE HOSPITALS.

Weird thing about RS, btw: It’s become more conservative than liberal; so I really don’t know what their angle was with that stupid, unverified story.

G’s cousin is in McQueeney, TX, which is near San Antonio. Total Trumper, anti-vaxxer, anti-mask, “my immune system is my vaccine.”

She got Covid last week. She’s been to the ER twice. The first time, the hospital gave her something like Regeneron, and she went and bought some ivermectin.

Then she got way worse. This trip, she had X-rays and a series of CT scans to check for blood clots. She was diagnosed with viral pneumonia and sent home.

“Thoughts and prayers.”

She says “Covid really sucks.”

Um … yeah.

[thelastdisciple]

Political manipulation and desperation towards taking horse paste aside, even the manufacturer of the HUMAN ivermectin drug Stromectol, someone who would stand to gain financially is like FFS, SLOW YOUR ROLL PEOPLE!

This was from February of this year. I doubt much has changed?

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-sta...d-19-pandemic/

[botley]

Edit: this is NOT, @allegate , to be confused with the lack of ICU beds resulting from the recent Covid spike. I'd imagine THAT'S true.
What pisses ME off is the implication that so many No Man's Landers overdosed on Horse Medicine, that bullet wound patients were unable to be treated at RURAL hospitals.

Yeah, but if something is too bizarre to be true (or as I saw one tweet put it, "too American to be real") then it usually is. People are gullible and a wild quote like that is click bait city. Now the full ICU bed situation is definitely real — for most of today all 11 counties around Austin were 100% full, according someone who DOES work in that system.

The people picketing hospitals though? Anti-vax, anti-mask, open rebellion against reason? That's happening up HERE. In my home town, TORONTO, CANADA. It's not in rube yokel dirt fucker panhandle dust bowl country any more, it's in the Peaceable Kingdom, the True North Strong & Free(dumb). Like I keep saying: stupidity is the real pandemic. That shit is spreading EVERYWHERE.

[allegro]

Political manipulation and desperation towards taking horse paste aside, even the manufacturer of the HUMAN ivermectin drug Stromectol, someone who would stand to gain financially is like FFS, SLOW YOUR ROLL PEOPLE!

This was from February of this year. I doubt much has changed?

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-sta...d-19-pandemic/

And if that wasn’t bad enough, check THIS out:

WIN!!!