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Thread: Persecution of Religions

  1. #91
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    *sigh*

    Which still doesn't address the fact that the largest number of hate crimes in the world and in the U.S. have been committed against Jews, NOT because of their religion and - in the U.S., anyway - NOT committed BY other religions.

    So the original poster's misguided premise sparked a multi-page discussion but it was based on an incorrect premise, which the mainstream media keeps repeating but even the F.B.I. has debunked:

    The main culprit is worse.

    It's just plain old ethnic hatred and nationalism.



    Here's an article from the Washington Post:

    Hitler hated Judaism. But he loathed Christianity, too.

    “In Hitler’s eyes Christianity was a religion fit only for slaves,” wrote Alan Bullock “Hitler, A Study in Tyranny,” a seminal biography. “Its teaching, he declared, was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle of the fittest.”

    The Führer’s skepticism and devious behavior toward organized religion began innocently enough — in weekly Bible classes.

    By 1942, Hitler vowed, according to Bullock, to “root out and destroy the influence of the Christian Churches,” describing them as “the evil that is gnawing our vitals.”

    “I can’t at present give them the answer they’ve been asking for,” Hitler said. “The time will come when I’ll settle my account with them. They’ll hear from me all right.”

    But first, he had to finish off the Jews.
    Here's a link to the Anne Frank House:

    Antisemitism: an age-old phenomenon

    Hitler did not invent the hatred of Jews. Jews in Europe had been victims of discrimination and persecution since the Middle Ages, often for religious reasons. Christians saw the Jewish faith as an aberration that had to be quashed. Jews were sometimes forced to convert or they were not allowed to practice certain professions.In the nineteenth century, religion played a less important role. It was replaced by theories about the differences between races and peoples. The idea that Jews belonged to a different people than the Germans, for instance, caught on. Even Jews who had converted to Christianity were still 'different' because of their bloodline.

    Hitler is introduced to antisemitism

    The origin of Hitler's hatred of Jews is not clear. In Mein Kampf, he described his development into an antisemite as the result of a long, personal struggle. Supposedly, his aversion to everything Jewish came to fruition when he was living and working as a painter in Vienna (1908-1913). Most historians believe that Hitler came up with this explanation in hindsight. He would have used it to assure people who were not yet convinced of his ideas that they would eventually see the light.One way or another, it is clear that Hitler came into contact with antisemitic ideas at an early age. To what extent he shared them at that point, is not certain. If he was prejudiced against Jews while living in Vienna, his prejudice had not yet crystallised into a clear worldview. After all, one of the most loyal buyers of his paintings in Vienna was a Jew, Samuel Morgenstern.

    German nationalism and antisemitism

    What we do know is that two Austrian politicians greatly influenced Hitler's thinking. The first, Georg Ritter von Schönerer (1842-1921), was a German nationalist. He believed that the German-speaking regions of Austria-Hungary should be added to the German empire. He also felt that Jews could never be fully-fledged German citizens. From the second, the Viennese mayor Karl Lueger (1844-1910), Hitler learned how antisemitism and social reforms could be successful. In Mein Kampf, Hitler praised Lueger as 'the greatest German mayor of all times'. When Hitler came to power in 1933, he put similar ideas into practice.

    Jews as the scapegoats for the lost war

    The German defeat was hard to swallow for many Germans, and for Hitler, too. In nationalist and right-wing conservative circles, the ‘stab-in-the-back legend’ became popular. According to this myth, Germany did not lose the war on the battlefield, but through betrayal at the home front. The Jews, Social Democrats, and Communists were held responsible. The prejudices about the role of the Jews in the war were false. An investigation carried out by the German Government proved as much. Over one hundred thousand German and Austrian Jews had fought for their fatherland. Otto Frank, who had fought in the Battle of the Somme in 1916, was just one of them.

    Radicalisation of Hitler’s antisemitism

    Against the backdrop of revolution and violence, Hitler's antisemitism was becoming increasingly radical. It is noteworthy that he said he did not support uncontrolled 'emotional' pogroms (outbursts of anti-Jewish violence). Instead, he argued for an ‘antisemitism of the mind'. It had to be legal and would ultimately lead to the 'removal' of the Jews .As early as August 1920, Hitler compared the Jews to germs. He stated that diseases cannot be controlled unless you destroy their causes. The influence of the Jews would never disappear without removing its cause, the Jew, from our midst, he said. These radical ideas paved the way for the mass murder of the Jews in the 1940s.
    Last edited by allegro; 05-09-2019 at 05:54 PM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Are movies equal to ancient mass religions?
    Depends on how you feel about religion, I guess. Either way, you're twisting a message.

    To be clear, I'm not a religious person, but I can also recognize the good it can do. If someone needs a little bit of religion to act as a moral compass, good for them for trying to better themselves. I know plenty of religious people that aren't bigoted, racist, or any other terrible thing. I know some on the other side as well, and those people suck. They would probably still suck without religion.

  3. #93
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    By the way, as an interesting aside, here is a Vanity Fair article from September of 1990, which includes the following:

    Donald Trump appears to take aspects of his German background seriously. John Walter works for the Trump Organization, and when he visits Donald in his office, Ivana told a friend, he clicks his heels and says, “Heil Hitler,” possibly as a family joke.

    Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler’s collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade. Hitler’s speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist.

    “Did your cousin John give you the Hitler speeches?” I asked Trump.

    Trump hesitated. “Who told you that?”

    “I don’t remember,” I said.

    “Actually, it was my friend Marty Davis from Paramount who gave me a copy of Mein Kampf, and he’s a Jew.” (“I did give him a book about Hitler,” Marty Davis said. “But it was My New Order, Hitler’s speeches, not Mein Kampf. I thought he would find it interesting. I am his friend, but I’m not Jewish.”)

    Later, Trump returned to this subject. “If I had these speeches, and I am not saying that I do, I would never read them.”

    Is Ivana trying to convince her friends and lawyer that Trump is a crypto-Nazi? Trump is no reader or history buff. Perhaps his possession of Hitler’s speeches merely indicates an interest in Hitler’s genius at propaganda. The Führer often described his defeats at Stalingrad and in North Africa as great victories. Trump continues to endow his diminishing world with significance as well. “There’s nobody that has the cash flow that I have,” he told The Wall Street Journal long after he knew better. “I want to be king of cash.”

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archive_Reports View Post
    Depends on how you feel about religion, I guess. Either way, you're twisting a message.
    Sure, and I get what you're saying, but it's a faulty comparison. The major religions of the world are all-encompassing belief systems which claim to explain the whole make up of the universe, and they give their believers an extensive set of values and principles to live their entire lives by. A movie is...a movie. The level of political power and mass influence is not even remotely comparable on any level.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    So, when people take bad things from religion, it has nothing to do with religion, but when people get good things out of it, it's entirely because of the power of religion?
    Religions OFFER good things. It's their purpose.

    Let's look for example at the idea of Jihad (I'm not a Muslim btw). Jihad means struggle. It refers to the spiritual struggle, the struggle against your own selfish inclinations, in order to become a Godly, righteous human being. And Islam offers the tools to fight that spiritual jihad: prayer and worship, study of wisdom, and instruction in right living. But there are those who have a character that is warped, and bring that warped character with them into Islam. They are easily convinced that Jihad refers to a physical warfare against infidels. And they go out and practice a heretical version of Islam.
    Last edited by Jaguar; 05-09-2019 at 10:09 PM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archive_Reports View Post
    If someone needs a little bit of religion to act as a moral compass, good for them for trying to better themselves.
    If a person finds comfort in religion, that's fine. If a person needs religion to act as a moral compass, then their morals are kind of fucked to begin with. Plus, religion has been used to justify terrible, immoral things for thousands of years. You can say that it's just people using religion the "wrong way", but a lot of those terrible, immoral things were embedded into those religions from the start.
    Last edited by BRoswell; 05-09-2019 at 11:29 PM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Are movies equal to ancient mass religions?
    I'd argue that massively overhyped franchise movies are, like Star Wars and the Marvelverse. TV perhaps even moreso (Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Star Trek, etc). There are also niche movies that are quite literally described as 'cult'. Jediism is now a faith practised today (albeit one with no structure... yet).

    Then there are book series like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, the latter of which may as well be a full-blown religion with the impact it had on the entertainment industry.

    The cult of celebrity has been around for thousands of years, exacerbated now by tabloids and celeb magazines. Worship of idols like musicians, sports professionals, actors, and even nobodies famous for nothing but having money.
    The cult of clickbait and outrage is getting stronger, driven on by the Internet breaking boundaries with platforms like Twitter allowing anyone to express their opinion. The more outrageous the opinion, the more outrageous the video, the more clicks they get.

    Many people even treat the news as a religion, believing anything they're told. Just look at the political situation in the world today. People are driven by hard bias.

    To be honest, any form of media can be seen as a religion.

    "God is in the TV", indeed.

  8. #98
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    I'm not calling an absolute here when it comes to anti-semitism, but @Cat Mom makes a good point that it's less of a religious war from an opposing ideology than an example of a minority being assaulted.

    Then again, anti-semitism is a confusing entity to unpack as a singular thing. You have, on one obvious front, the white supremecist/neo-nazis, and really, maybe we shouldn't consider nazis and white supremacists as separate things; it unnecessarily obfuscates things with a meaningless distinction.
    This IS still, as far as a brand identity, aligned with Christianity. At least historically it was, and that's pinned forever to the identity, if only as a rallying point.

    Then there's the muddy area where we get caught up in the distinction between Israel as a country where people live, or religious destiny, or oppressive movement; all depending on where you stand on this. Then there's the muddying element where it seems like every conspiracy theory I hear revolves somehow about "Jews doing nefarious stuff with the world's money," which is of course bullshit, but you gotta wonder who's seeding those ideas.

    And then there is the elephant in the room, where the largest obvious divide is a land-struggle between theocracies, and to claim religion doesn't have a dog in that fight is, well... it's a common claim and that just makes it all more confusing.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Then there's the muddy area where we get caught up in the distinction between Israel as a country where people live, or religious destiny, or oppressive movement; all depending on where you stand on this. Then there's the muddying element where it seems like every conspiracy theory I hear revolves somehow about "Jews doing nefarious stuff with the world's money," which is of course bullshit, but you gotta wonder who's seeding those ideas.
    Like the Right and “George Soros (THE RICH JEW) is paying all the LIBERALS to go against TRUMP!” ?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Like the Right and “George Soros (THE RICH JEW) is paying all the LIBERALS to go against TRUMP!” ?
    That's definitely a manifestation of it. But then we look at how the alt-right has been openly courting aforementioned groups... it's a card they can play while the neocons can roll their eyes and play coy when they're called on for encouraging it.

  11. #101
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    In 1985, I saw Claude Lanzmann's "Shoah" at the Detroit Institute of Arts upon its release, although I admit that I couldn't make it through all 9.5 hours (shown over two days), which made me feel bad considering the subject matter.

    Please watch this video, below, from Siskel and Ebert.

    There are scenes in this movie that I will NEVER forget, where citizens indicate that KNEW what was going on, and they did nothing BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CARE.

    One scene I will NEVER forget: a Polish woman said she didn't care that Jews were being killed "Because the 'Jewesses' are stealing our husbands."

    These kinds of beliefs are no different than thinking all Mexicans are rapist drug-dealing criminals, all Greeks commit sodomy or fuck their sheep, all Polish are dumb, all Russians are evil drunks.

    This is the "dark side of human nature" that Gene Siskel speaks about.

    Last edited by allegro; 05-10-2019 at 01:12 PM.

  12. #102
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    @Jinsai , and of course, this; not because of his religion, but because he was loaning money and charging interest.


  13. #103
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    yes, but wasn't the depiction of Shylock sold to an almost entirely Christian audience?

  14. #104
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    Yes, they just happened to be Christians, but they were also white Anglo Saxons; Shakespeare was telling them that they were assholes.

    That was MY thesis, anyway, proven by about 900 academic research sources.

    It was a CULTURAL reflection.

    Just like how WASPs wouldn't allow Jews into their country clubs and the upper class for umpteen years, no matter HOW wealthy the Jews were ... NOT because of the "Protestant" thing but because of the White Anglo Saxon thing. Because they also wouldn't let in rich negro Christians.

    Reading books like Edith Wharton's "House of Mirth" and Henry James' "Portrait of a Lady," holy shit, the rampant anti-Semitism, EVEN FROM THESE AUTHORS, is shockingly awful. It's not based on their Christianity; it's based on their upper-class exceptionalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    That's definitely a manifestation of it. But then we look at how the alt-right has been openly courting aforementioned groups... it's a card they can play while the neocons can roll their eyes and play coy when they're called on for encouraging it.
    The left has gone all kinds of stupid directions, too.

    Case in point: People on the left called out Rep. Ilhan Omar for using anti Semitic tropes, including Chelsea Clinton. Later, Clinton and Omar report that they have a very pleasant and educational conversation about anti Semitism, about Islamic concerns, etc., and they agree to work together on common causes.

    Then, a white nationalist, citing Donald Trump as "a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose," shoots and kills a bunch of people in a Mosque in Christchurch New Zealand. The shooter's manifesto complains about things like "immigration and multiculturalism and decries the 'decaying' culture of the white, European, Western world."

    Chelsea Clinton was invited to a memorial service for the victims of the Christchurch shooting.

    At the memorial, a very pregnant Chelsea Clinton is confronted by an Islamic progressive "activist" who claims that Chelsea Clinton is personally responsible for the shooting in Christchurch.

    Last edited by allegro; 05-10-2019 at 02:02 PM.

  15. #105
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    yes, the left is getting stupid here too, and like a lot of these other issues and side-points we're addressing, it's partisan reactionary nonsense. What they put Omar through was just playing into the hands of people desperate to deepen a divide for a political win, and these dipshits gave it to them out of fear that they would upset their own base.

    God I hate politics. I promise, if we vote Trump out, I'll just shut the fuck up about all of it and go back smiling to my cave.

  16. #106
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    Heh, I'll be on my boatcave.

  17. #107
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    Persecution of Religions

    The reactionary posts in this thread are because the original posters own words in the thread topic post. It’s full of opinion and double speak. They didn't just say I'm concerned about religious persecution. They said:
    Even those who don't advocate violence get caught up in anti-religious rhetoric.
    You are equating non violent, non religious people with terrorists. They’re not the same.

    Clinton and Obama
    k.

    when did religion become such a wickedness? When did the world declare war on it? When did tolerance go out the window?
    Religion has always been wicked. It's meant to control people so naturally, those who don't believe will reject it. Tolerance is still pretty wide spread despite increasing violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If our religion doesn't govern our lives, it's pretty impotent.
    If your religion governs YOUR life, that's fine but the collective "we" ("our" in your post) doesn't need your religion to govern themselves. Religion is supposed to be personal. If it makes you a better person, good for you. But that is where it should end. It shouldn't be your religion’s goal to infiltrate our politics, our schools, or my body for your god to feel valid. Our country is founded on that principal but is frequently ignored because "in god we trust". My state just signed an anti-abortion law that can criminalize a woman for having a miscarriage. This is religious overreach. Science and medicine and history don't matter because some abstract idea in the bible.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    It shouldn't be your religion’s goal to infiltrate our politics, our schools, or my body for your god to feel valid. Our country is founded on that principal but is frequently ignored because "in god we trust". My state just signed an anti-abortion law that can criminalize a woman for having a miscarriage. This is religious overreach. Science and medicine and history don't matter because some abstract idea in the bible.
    Technically, “In God We Trust” wasn’t added until the 1950s due to fear of Communism, and had nothing to do with our founding fathers. But I totally agree with the rest of the above post.

    I come from the Olden Days of online discussion, Bulletin Boards. When an original post that was filled with goofy additional characters (it looks like the guy is thinking he needs to use vi editor [“w” = “write” and “wq” means “write quit”]) had conflicting info, we remembered that first posts in threads are intended to spark interesting - not combative - discussion, and we clarified the original poster’s actual intent of his direction of the thread. The Original Poster, in this instance, appeared to have originally intended post a thread about anti Semitism (since he’s Jewish, it’s even in his profile) and his fear of attacks, but he backed off being specific to Jews and tried to broaden it to be more, I dunno, appealing. He only muddied his waters and made some think he was Jerry Falwell. (Which isn’t possible since he’s a practicing, socially-liberal Jew.). The Original Poster posed no obvious threat. His post was provocative, but not particularly incendiary. I have 34 years of online experience; I see all of his posts as being genuine, caring posts.

    Not liking religion is okay. Attacking INDIVIDUALS who practice the religion, in person or online, isn’t attacking the ideals of religion. Having a respectful discussion about why there has been such a huge increase in anti Semitism or bombing of black churches (there is verifiable data) should be possible. Forgiving a new Member for an inartful first post in a thread should be possible.

    We live in a P.C. world where we have to be careful that hateful rhetoric can push mentally unstable people over the edge. It’s just the way it is.

    There are things that cannot be said or posted ON THIS BOARD because unstable people practice NIN as a religion and Reznor is their God; Reznor has to keep his children out of photos and protect his wife from constant harassment from both female AND MALE stalkers who worship him beyond what is healthy.
    Last edited by allegro; 05-11-2019 at 06:32 PM.

  19. #109
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    For your consideration (re: intentions) https://www.echoingthesound.org/comm...149#post456149

    Key words: Dennis Prager. Stop trying to cover and excuse for this guy while painting those of us in opposition as villains. We’re not.

    So many red flags here. Many of you have accurately covered them. I thank you for doing so and couldn’t agree with you more.

  20. #110
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    Reading back over all this, it kind of bugs me that this thread has morphed into a debate about the value and merit of organized religion.

    I deeply sympathize with the initial post in this thread, which was posted just four days after the synagogue shooting in Poway (note that Jaguar also lives in SoCal). It's a scary thing to be subjected to that kind of violent terrorism, and I think it's perfectly understandable for someone in the aftermath of that to ask "Why is this happening to us? What's the root of all this?" A lot of my students are Muslim and some of them still talk about the mosque bombing that happened here back in 2017 and how it still makes them feel nervous and scared every time they go to worship, because they feel like "What if today is the day?" I think non-religious people like myself may struggle a bit to fully empathize with that experience because we don't attend places of worship and maybe don't understand the feeling of being part of a group that is in the cross-hairs like that. For me personally, the best I can relate to it is by thinking about how I feel when I'm at school and wondering if the day will ever come that we have a shooter on campus. But even that's not the same thing, because people on college campuses are not being specifically targeted for their group identity in the same way that Muslims and Jews are specifically targeted for their race and religions. For them, their mere existence as a group of people is what makes them a target.

    So it seems kind of distasteful to respond to someone in that situation by launching into an extended attack on the very notion of organized religion (something I myself somewhat participated in with that one big post I made a page or so back, which in hindsight seems dumb and in poor taste). This thread quickly turned into an indictment of religion itself, which almost seems like a kind of victim blaming. If one of my students was telling me about feeling nervous every time she goes to her Mosque, I think it would be pretty insensitive and uncaring for me to respond by talking about how awful religion is. I may personally have extremely mixed feelings about the role religion plays in our society, but this probably isn't the most appropriate moment to launch into that discussion. Sometimes you just gotta stand strong with people who are being attacked, even if you don't entirely agree with them on everything.

    [edit: which is not to say that there haven't been a lot of really great posts in this thread, to be clear]
    Last edited by Mantra; 05-11-2019 at 02:55 PM.

  21. #111
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    How many times do we need to cover this (and it HAS BEEN COVERED multiple times here)? Organized religion isn’t being attacked. The original post is entirely different than his subsequent posts in this thread. @sweeterthan broke down some of the more problematic points just 3 posts above. Stop making this something it isn’t.
    Last edited by Swykk; 05-12-2019 at 09:02 AM.

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    Religion is supposed to be personal. If it makes you a better person, good for you. But that is where it should end. It shouldn't be your religion’s goal to infiltrate our politics, our schools, or my body for your god to feel valid.
    There is a giant misunderstanding when it comes to "preaching the Gospel". The person or persons have to first have an interest in what you're "teaching". No one is truly interested in zealotry.

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    Religion is supposed to be personal. If it makes you a better person, good for you. But that is where it should end. It shouldn't be your religion’s goal to infiltrate our politics, our schools, or my body for your god to feel valid. Our country is founded on that principal but is frequently ignored because "in god we trust". My state just signed an anti-abortion law that can criminalize a woman for having a miscarriage. This is religious overreach. Science and medicine and history don't matter because some abstract idea in the bible.
    Your assertion that any bill passed in this country would criminalize a miscarriage shows how far your ridiculous bias goes.

    Religion has never been personal. This claim is made by anti-theists to try to regulate religion out of the public square, to make it impotent. My Judaism informs my social policies, such a care for the poor, the sick, and the impovrish. It means I support religious freedom. It means I support the civil rights of different ethnicities, sexes, LGBT, religions, national origins, age, etc. It means that I'm an activist against violence and sexism against women not only here in my own country, but internationally, as well as the slave trade. It also means I care about the environment -- the effects of over population, such as mankind's contribution to climate change, the impending water shortage and food shortage, mass extinctions, etc. All of this is my religion in the public square.

    Going on, because I'm a Jew, more than any other group I get singled out for Christian proselytizing activities. And at times it's irritating. But not enormously so. I'm actually much more bothered by people using profanity, because profanity is aggressive rudeness. Christians, however misled in their beliefs, are not being aggressive. They wish me no harm when they evangelize. In fact, they are in their own way being loving, trying to save me from hell, according to their religious beliefs. So what if they try to convert me???? It's not like they are forcing me. I can ignore them. I can walk away. I can argue back. I can respond in all sorts of different ways. The point is, they aren't persecuting me.

    Modern democracies mean religious freedom, and freedom of speech. Get a thicker skin and be a little tolerant of the intolerant. After all, you are pretty doggone intolerant, and we tolerate you.
    Last edited by Jaguar; 05-14-2019 at 08:03 PM.

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Your assertion that any bill passed in this country would criminalize a miscarriage shows how far your ridiculous bias goes.
    Oh?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...or-an-abortion

    Anyways, it is awful any of this is happening.

    Most recently:
    Last edited by thelastdisciple; 05-14-2019 at 10:01 PM.

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I'm actually much more bothered by people using profanity, because profanity is aggressive rudeness.
    Sorry for swearing so fucking much.

  26. #116
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    Technically (in law, all new legislation is later tested and modified by actual case law), none of the proposed or actual new abortion legislation prosecutes women; only the doctors are prosecuted.

    HOWEVER, that’s up until the legislation is tested. The new laws are vague, so vague that they open the doors to an investigation into whether or not a woman’s miscarriage was self-induced and whether she, herself, acted as “doctor” (and could therefore be prosecuted).

    All it takes is one new case to test the new law and the law is then modified. (Note that all criminal laws are modified by case law.)

    The new abortion laws aren’t strictly based on Christian beliefs; they’re also heavily based on the right trying to maintain control of the white birth rate. Don’t be fooled by all this Jesus talk of morality in saving all the unborn babies. It’s BULLSHIT.

    These people don’t want to save Central American children, they don’t give a rat’s ass about the 85,000 little babies and children who this Administration helped STARVE TO DEATH in Yemen (the number is rising), they support the death penalty, and they support the deaths that come along with the 2nd Amendment. They don’t give one single shit about child support, deadbeat dads, males who refuse to use condoms and not only impregnate females but spread sexually transmitted infections.

    This is all about increasing the number of white babies, so Latinos won’t become the majority. Because Latinos are Catholic, they are religious, they don’t typically practice birth control, and they are having a lot of babies. This keeps these white nationalist Anglo Saxon Protestants up all night. This is also about maintenance of an agenda that attracts votes.
    Last edited by allegro; 05-15-2019 at 12:57 AM.

  27. #117
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    This is an interesting story about the origins of the George Soros conspiracy which you hear from alt-right circles a lot

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...rban-netanyahu

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Your assertion that any bill passed in this country would criminalize a miscarriage shows how far your ridiculous bias goes.

    Religion has never been personal. This claim is made by anti-theists to try to regulate religion out of the public square, to make it impotent. My Judaism informs my social policies, such a care for the poor, the sick, and the impovrish. It means I support religious freedom. It means I support the civil rights of different ethnicities, sexes, LGBT, religions, national origins, age, etc. It means that I'm an activist against violence and sexism against women not only here in my own country, but internationally, as well as the slave trade. It also means I care about the environment -- the effects of over population, such as mankind's contribution to climate change, the impending water shortage and food shortage, mass extinctions, etc. All of this is my religion in the public square.

    Going on, because I'm a Jew, more than any other group I get singled out for Christian proselytizing activities. And at times it's irritating. But not enormously so. I'm actually much more bothered by people using profanity, because profanity is aggressive rudeness. Christians, however misled in their beliefs, are not being aggressive. They wish me no harm when they evangelize. In fact, they are in their own way being loving, trying to save me from hell, according to their religious beliefs. So what if they try to convert me???? It's not like they are forcing me. I can ignore them. I can walk away. I can argue back. I can respond in all sorts of different ways. The point is, they aren't persecuting me.

    Modern democracies mean religious freedom, and freedom of speech. Get a thicker skin and be a little tolerant of the intolerant. After all, you are pretty doggone intolerant, and we tolerate you.
    You do an awfully good job of building up yourself and your religion, while trying to tear down another religion and those that seemingly have none or don't care. Your Judaism does not make you special; if you believe in God, we are all His chosen children. We're also just dumb humans. The Bible is pretty explicit about judging others' beliefs (I know, not "your" Bible) and wasting time trying to understand the true nature of God.

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    You try really hard to build yourself up using your religion as justification for awful behavior, while trying to tear down another religion and those that seemingly have none or don't care. Your Judaism does not make you special; if you believe in God, we are all His chosen children. We're also just dumb humans. The Bible is pretty explicit about judging others' beliefs (I know, not "your" Bible) and wasting time trying to understand the true nature of God.
    Did some editing. Hope you don’t mind.

  30. #120
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    Persecution of Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Your assertion that any bill passed in this country would criminalize a miscarriage shows how far your ridiculous bias goes.
    Is this a response? are you arguing a point? What am i ridiculously biased about? My state gave personhood to fetuses. Women could be charged with murder for making mistakes that they should not even be judged for. If you don't understand what these laws mean, you are definitely part of the problem. If you are the humanist you claim to be you would be prochoice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Religion has never been personal. This claim is made by anti-theists to try to regulate religion out of the public square, to make it impotent. My Judaism informs my social policies, such a care for the poor, the sick, and the impovrish. It means I support religious freedom. It means I support the civil rights of different ethnicities, sexes, LGBT, religions, national origins, age, etc. It means that I'm an activist against violence and sexism against women not only here in my own country, but internationally, as well as the slave trade. It also means I care about the environment -- the effects of over population, such as mankind's contribution to climate change, the impending water shortage and food shortage, mass extinctions, etc. All of this is my religion in the public square.

    Going on, because I'm a Jew, more than any other group I get singled out for Christian proselytizing activities. And at times it's irritating. But not enormously so. I'm actually much more bothered by people using profanity, because profanity is aggressive rudeness. Christians, however misled in their beliefs, are not being aggressive. They wish me no harm when they evangelize. In fact, they are in their own way being loving, trying to save me from hell, according to their religious beliefs. So what if they try to convert me???? It's not like they are forcing me. I can ignore them. I can walk away. I can argue back. I can respond in all sorts of different ways. The point is, they aren't persecuting me.

    Modern democracies mean religious freedom, and freedom of speech. Get a thicker skin and be a little tolerant of the intolerant. After all, you are pretty doggone intolerant, and we tolerate you.
    This thread has gone all kinds of places but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere meaningful. Originally i was going to merge the topic post into the general headlines thread because it seemed more of a comment but i left it after it started getting responses from members. A post was reported for being off topic. At first i agreed but then i re-read your words and understood what sparked these seemingly off topic responses. I pointed this out and instead of trying to clarify for the sake of discussion, you say I'm biased and intolerant. "Get a thicker skin" is your only response to anyone not courting your persecution complex. Maybe you should take your own advice before starting a discussion topic that you're not prepared to actually discuss.

    Also way off topic but: if you think cursing is rude, you're in the wrong fucking place. this is a fucking nine inch nails board.

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