Vinyl Rerelease 2019 (With Teeth)

[gorast]

I thought it was just me! I was doing straight A/B testing, switching between DE and my CD rip, and I couldn't tell you which was which, on pricey headphones. I'm glad you don't have to drop three figures to get it on vinyl anymore, but I'm struggling to hear the differences in the remaster, even though I can see on the spectrum analyzer that there are differences. But there are so many people who are like, "I'm hearing things I've never heard before!"

I know this is unlikely given the fanbase, but it could be that a ton of people had relatively poor-quality copies of the songs before, and replacing them with fresh, high-quality remasters exposed a clarity and warmth to the songs that wasn’t there before in their old, shitty files. I know this is the case for me, at least - I have NO IDEA where my old digital copy of With Teeth came from, but I do know that, separate from the remaster, the step up in sound quality for the direct-from-NIN.com download is huge.

That’s probably all bullshit but it’s the first thing I thought of.

[katara]

One big difference I noticed is that the outro of YKWYA seems a lot louder. It actually has less dynamic range. Feels pretty flat compared to the original. Less impact.

Most songs have a little more punch to the drums. More compression and a touch more bass. Oddly, Home DE has less bass added, so it feels like it was mastered differently than the rest of the DE tracks.

While there's honestly very little difference overall (that I can hear), I prefer the original. YKWYA isn't overblown there. It also came on CD and has bonus tracks like RWIB v2, which is more than the DE offers.

[Leviathant]

I mean, my real want is a Deviations for With Teeth. Give me that Bleedthrough nonsense, no matter what it's like.

[Tom]

Yup, I never quite clicked with WT, but really enjoy the instrumentals, so a WT Deviations would be great.

[sonic_discord]

I'd prefer a Deviations WITH vocals, even if that means the majority of the new/previously unreleased content is instrumental and there are gaps between vocal tracks. It's too hard for me to pay attention for the entire length of The Fragile Deviations and while it's interesting to hear the whole thing as an instrumental, I think the occasional track with vocals would help.

[katara]

I'd prefer a Deviations WITH vocals, even if that means the majority of the new/previously unreleased content is instrumental and there are gaps between vocal tracks. It's too hard for me to pay attention for the entire length of The Fragile Deviations and while it's interesting to hear the whole thing as an instrumental, I think the occasional track with vocals would help.

Yes, I agree. The concept feels half-baked in many ways. Just removing the vocals, tweaking a couple of things here and there isn't really enough. The best parts of The Fragile Deviations were the new songs, although it was frustrating that not a single one of them was complete with Trent's voice.

With Teeth instrumental sounds only moderately interesting. I'd like to hear new or unreleased music, and alt takes of every track, not just a select few! If [W_T] Deviations happens, it should basically be the Bleedthrough album as @Leviathant suggested above.

If a Year Zero Deviations is ever released, I'd expect it to be full-on ARG, with audio snippets and hidden stuff all over, more like a sound collage than an album.

[tony.parente]

Yes, I agree. The concept feels half-baked in many ways. Just removing the vocals, tweaking a couple of things here and there isn't really enough. The best parts of The Fragile Deviations were the new songs, although it was frustrating that not a single one of them was complete with Trent's voice.

With Teeth instrumental sounds only moderately interesting. I'd like to hear new or unreleased music, and alt takes of every track, not just a select few! If [W_T] Deviations happens, it should basically be the Bleedthrough album as @Leviathant suggested above.

If a Year Zero Deviations is ever released, I'd expect it to be full-on ARG, with audio snippets and hidden stuff all over, more like a sound collage than an album.

Not to be a dick on purpose and don’t take this as tony shitting on deviations AGAIN but I think the intent was to go the EA route for deviations. Release a full priced add on with all the cut vocals for full price in a few years. Really stretch out what should have been a regular $120 fragile deluxe into a $40 definitive edition, an $80 deviations and a $60 more extra content release.

[jmtd]

I thought it was just me! I was doing straight A/B testing

I’m glad someone attempted this. The last thing I want to be is a killjoy so when a surprise like this comes out and the immediate responses are so enthusiastic, however skeptical I might be I don’t want to dampen the initial excitement. I haven’t listened yet at all but it’s useful to hear some results from some kind of disciplined comparison. I’ve never got around to ABXing the last round of definitive reissues either, and my main observation from non scientific comparisons was they were mainly louder.

The last remasters from another artist which really made me sit up and take notice were New Order’s early albums from a few years ago.

[Jon]

I know this is unlikely given the fanbase, but it could be that a ton of people had relatively poor-quality copies of the songs before, and replacing them with fresh, high-quality remasters exposed a clarity and warmth to the songs that wasn’t there before in their old, shitty files.

I was thinking more along the lines of better headphones or something else improved in the audio chain (hardware).

I can personally hear layers I didn't quite notice before, but that's due to everything being "louder" as already pointed out. Your attention is drawn to a certain sound or layer moreso than before. I will also admit, WT is probably my least favorite NIN album so maybe I'm just not as intimately familiar with the in's-and-out's.

[Erneuert]

I’m glad someone attempted this. The last thing I want to be is a killjoy so when a surprise like this comes out and the immediate responses are so enthusiastic, however skeptical I might be I don’t want to dampen the initial excitement. I haven’t listened yet at all but it’s useful to hear some results from some kind of disciplined comparison. I’ve never got around to ABXing the last round of definitive reissues either, and my main observation from non scientific comparisons was they were mainly louder.

The last remasters from another artist which really made me sit up and take notice were New Order’s early albums from a few years ago.

Those New Order remasters were all over the shop though, remember? Lots of missing stuff, Sunrise from Low-Life remaster had an audio dropout. Bad vinyl transfers. They ended up re-releasing them with supposed “fixed” CDs, but they were still rife with problems. Rhino really fucked those up.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....ssues-recalled

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...rewups.186020/

[laststepdown]

I know this is unlikely given the fanbase, but it could be that a ton of people had relatively poor-quality copies of the songs before, and replacing them with fresh, high-quality remasters exposed a clarity and warmth to the songs that wasn’t there before in their old, shitty files. I know this is the case for me, at least - I have NO IDEA where my old digital copy of With Teeth came from, but I do know that, separate from the remaster, the step up in sound quality for the direct-from-NIN.com download is huge.

That’s probably all bullshit but it’s the first thing I thought of.

I agree with this statement. My first 100 or so listens to WT were in 5.1 and I really didn't tell much of a difference with the digital DE. I've never had this album in anything under 320kbps mp3. Also been a fan since PHM-my first listen to that was on my neighbor's cd, my first copy was a dubbed cassette, and my preferred listen is the non-remastered vinyl. I got both the vinyl and 5.1 disc of WT on release day. It's the first vinyl I've ever bought new for myself. Honestly, I'd open the DE and listen to it before the OG WT. My 5.1 dvd player isn't hooked up anymore, I just don't have the room, and Trent stopped putting out 5.1 mixes so WT is just this glory day for myself of music + tech + nin. ETS had a ton of 5.1 mixes by fans and whatnot at that point. I still have most if not all of the ETS 5.1's floating around somewhere - PHM, broken, TF, and later even YZ had a 5.1 mix done by someone on the old forum. I just came to terms realizing quality meant something and that my ears and I deserved better. Upgrading my terrible lossy mp3 library. Buying my first tube amp. My first manual transmision car. There's just some things you can't fake in the automotion.

Maybe it's like OG Beatles remasters. You have something special with the old mix. The new mix is great, too, and will be around forever. Those of us that really cared about our initial listen do seem to have issues finding the differences out of the woodwork or whatever.

[Jon]

Those New Order remasters were all over the shop though, remember? Lots of missing stuff, Sunrise from Low-Life remaster had an audio dropout. Bad vinyl transfers. They ended up re-releasing them with supposed “fixed” CDs, but they were still rife with problems. Rhino really fucked those up.

Small aside: was this ever fixed? I have the 2005 2-CD Singles release, and it sounds like shit.

[Erneuert]

Small aside: was this ever fixed? I have the 2005 2-CD Singles release, and it sounds like shit.

They attempted to, and re-released them, but ultimately there were still errors on them that were never rectified. All this frustration, in turn, resulted in members of the NewOrderOnline community to create their own “Recycle” project that was extremely ambitious and included lossless rips of pretty much everything ever made available, right down to the most obscure remix or edit. Plus meticulously scanned and recreated fan artwork to show the record company how it should have been handled:

http://forums.neworderonline.com/def...4385#post27368

[trollmanen]

I thought it was just me! I was doing straight A/B testing, switching between DE and my CD rip, and I couldn't tell you which was which, on pricey headphones. I'm glad you don't have to drop three figures to get it on vinyl anymore, but I'm struggling to hear the differences in the remaster, even though I can see on the spectrum analyzer that there are differences. But there are so many people who are like, "I'm hearing things I've never heard before!"

I feel like other than a little more bass, I don't really hear a difference either, and I wasn't really expecting to. Given that the album is from 2005, I don't think there's much that he would do differently now that he couldn't do then. To me, the most striking differences in the DE versions is Broken, which sonically is just in your face in the way it was always meant to be. The Fragile was also one that wasn't heavily compressed in its original version, so there was room to give it more impact. I think With Teeth shows that the rest of these aren't going to be a huge departure from the original versions. Given that I have originals of all the NIN catalog on vinyl, the big selling point for me on these is the liner notes booklets that come with these, which are really great.

[PhoenixML]

Just with new headphones I bought last year, I felt any albums was a new experience.

[jmtd]

Those New Order remasters were all over the shop though, remember? Lots of missing stuff, Sunrise from Low-Life remaster had an audio dropout. Bad vinyl transfers. They ended up re-releasing them with supposed “fixed” CDs, but they were still rife with problems. Rhino really fucked those up.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....ssues-recalled

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...rewups.186020/

I didn’t mean those ones, I mean the digital reissues in 2015

[imail724]

WT now listed on Amazon. Not up for sale yet, but if the German Amazon is accurate it should be for sale early January.

[Sarah K]

WT now listed on Amazon. Not up for sale yet, but if the German Amazon is accurate it should be for sale early January.

If you click on formats and editions, it lists January 10.

[allegate]

Yep, those were pulled ages ago. ninjaw has an archive here:

https://jheberg.net/captcha/apple-mu...s-by-ninjaw-2/

is there a version of this link that doesn't try to hijack my browser?

[Erneuert]

I didn’t mean those ones, I mean the digital reissues in 2015

Oh, my bad.

[Jon]

is there a version of this link that doesn't try to hijack my browser?

It appears I no longer have them in original 256 m4a with all the cover art. You can find 320 MP3 versions pretty easily, but they have been "tampered" with. The mp3's were captured via iPhone > DAW.

Sorry about that (even though it's not my link).

[jmtd]

I’m fairly sure I’ve got the originals. I’ll take a look when I’m near a computer.

[afors]

Just got my With Teeth LP through in the mail (UK). Packaging + LP sleeve corner completely crushed. I'm having deja vu.

[dtuck90]

Just got my With Teeth LP through in the mail (UK). Packaging + LP sleeve corner completely crushed. I'm having deja vu.

Did you get a shipping notice? I haven’t yet but that may be because I ordered Bird Box as well

[afors]

Did you get a shipping notice? I haven’t yet but that may be because I ordered Bird Box as well

Yes about 4 days ago. Despite paying extra for delivery, it was sent 2nd class. Looks like it sat at the bottom of a Royal Mail bag with other heavy stuff on top of it.
It's 2017 vinyl season again... meh! I'd have paid more for a courier delivery or 1st class on next day. No option though.
NIN is the ONLY vinyl I have had issues with, with shipping.

[Ascender]

Just got my With Teeth LP through in the mail (UK). Packaging + LP sleeve corner completely crushed. I'm having deja vu.

Not sure why it can be so difficult?

That's been a week since With Teeth and Bird Box were ordered and no sign of either shipping. Postage in the UK is about £13.50 for those two, so I'd be pretty angry if they turn up damaged.

[NIN64]

Did anyone else order both vinyls the moment they were on sale, but still not receive a shipping notice?

[Toadflax]

Did anyone else order both vinyls the moment they were on sale, but still not receive a shipping notice?

Yes (well, same day at least), but I also ordered two shirts, which may be why other orders got sent out first.

[gorast]

Here's a scan of the With Teeth download card for anyone who wants it.

[zaps30]

I've got the original. If I see it at my local store in the future, I may grab it. They got all of the other releases after they had been released online. If I knew that, I wouldn't have bought them from the NIN store and avoided the headache.