The Trilogy's End (speculation)

[tcrudolph]

Any thoughts on the, uhh, discount codes we received for the shipping issues last year? Mine expires June 6, and I was hoping to use it toward the next batch of resissues and new merch, etc. A little disappointed if I can't since I've been saving it for that. Or have they just stopped working in general since the store changed hands a second time?

Excited for the new EP and not shocked by the delay, but happy they want to break expectations and looking forward to it even more.

[thefragile_jake]

I honestly don't mind waiting till June, there's not a lot of summer releases by bands I love in the pipeline currently ... so this gives me something to look forward to during a busy April and May release schedule for me.

[Haysey_Draws]

I can wait, i still have a back log of music to buy and a new TesseracT album next month which is sounding awesome!

Come June i'll have Comic-con, the BFI Anime Fest, my birthday, NIN at the BFH AND the new EP...awesome!

[ultimatebdp]

I'm probably being too optimistic, but what if EP3 turns out to be a full album??? He doesn't want to be predictable and "It’s not what we expected it to be."

[sonic_discord]

I'm probably being too optimistic, but what if EP3 turns out to be a full album??? He doesn't want to be predictable and "It’s not what we expected it to be."

I'd love that to be true, but from the sound of his explanation in that interview yesterday, I think they probably just scrapped what they began with and started over and that's why it's taking longer.

[Toadflax]

^^ Also, I talked about this on the podcast, but one thing that's felt a bit off to me is that each EP has had stuff that's felt kind of separated from the conversation. We've learned that She's Gone Away was written for Twin Peaks, Less Than seems to be a response to the Trump era, and there's lots of speculation about This Isn't The Place being about Bowie. If all of that is true (which, granted, the last two may not be), then it sort of spreads the narrative of the EPs kind of thin, no? Is this ~15 songs about a specific story, or is this 7-10 songs about a specific story with some other stuff peppered in they happened to be writing at the time? It's sort of like how Satellite and Everything were written before Hesitation Marks was conceived, and Satellite feels lyrically like it doesn't belong on the album, while Everything feels sonically like it doesn't belong.

[BRoswell]

^^ Also, I talked about this on the podcast, but one thing that's felt a bit off to me is that each EP has had stuff that's felt kind of separated from the conversation. We've learned that She's Gone Away was written for Twin Peaks, Less Than seems to be a response to the Trump era, and there's lots of speculation about This Isn't The Place being about Bowie. If all of that is true (which, granted, the last two may not be), then it sort of spreads the narrative of the EPs kind of thin, no? Is this ~15 songs about a specific story, or is this 7-10 songs about a specific story with some other stuff peppered in they happened to be writing at the time? It's sort of like how Satellite and Everything were written before Hesitation Marks was conceived, and Satellite feels lyrically like it doesn't belong on the album, while Everything feels sonically like it doesn't belong.

Based on Trent & Atticus' statements about the trilogy, the narrative has always been very loose, which I think has allowed them to go on a couple tangents. While they may be drawing inspiration from sources outside the narrative (Twin Peaks/Bowie's death/the current social and political climate), I still think those tangents have their connections to the overall narrative.

[Toadflax]

Based on Trent & Atticus' statements about the trilogy, the narrative has always been very loose, which I think has allowed them to go on a couple tangents. While they may be drawing inspiration from sources outside the narrative (Twin Peaks/Bowie's death/the current social and political climate), I still think those tangents have their connections to the overall narrative.

Yeah, that makes sense, and that's usually the shape of a NIN album- a specific through-line with plenty of tangents along the way. I guess I was just thrown off with NTAE seeming like it was hinting at a very specific story, the expectation being that each subsequent EP would narrow the narrative rather than make it even more broad and unspecific.

[FernandoDante]

Based on Trent & Atticus' statements about the trilogy, the narrative has always been very loose, which I think has allowed them to go on a couple tangents. While they may be drawing inspiration from sources outside the narrative (Twin Peaks/Bowie's death/the current social and political climate), I still think those tangents have their connections to the overall narrative.

aka People went way too crazy with their theories and shit, there's barely a plot here lol

[tremolo]

^^ Also, I talked about this on the podcast, but one thing that's felt a bit off to me is that each EP has had stuff that's felt kind of separated from the conversation. We've learned that She's Gone Away was written for Twin Peaks, Less Than seems to be a response to the Trump era, and there's lots of speculation about This Isn't The Place being about Bowie. If all of that is true (which, granted, the last two may not be), then it sort of spreads the narrative of the EPs kind of thin, no? Is this ~15 songs about a specific story, or is this 7-10 songs about a specific story with some other stuff peppered in they happened to be writing at the time? It's sort of like how Satellite and Everything were written before Hesitation Marks was conceived, and Satellite feels lyrically like it doesn't belong on the album, while Everything feels sonically like it doesn't belong.

Songs can have different interpretations, though, that’s the fun part of it. You can omit that info and still apply those lyrics to the unfolding story.

But that’s just how I choose to see it, words can have different dimensions depending on the context. We have bits and pieces, nothing concrete yet, hopefully the 3rd ep will provide what we need to make sense out of all of this.

[sonic_discord]

... It's sort of like how Satellite and Everything were written before Hesitation Marks was conceived, and Satellite feels lyrically like it doesn't belong on the album, while Everything feels sonically like it doesn't belong.

^^ That's a really great way of explaining that.

[Toadflax]

It's funny that EP3 sounded "predictable" considering how different NTAE and AV are from each other. When NTAE came out, I thought, okay cool, we're getting a trilogy of EP's about some gruesome murders carried out by someone with multiple personalities, and each EP will give us more clues into what exactly happened. Also, it'll sound gritty and ugly and inaccessible. Then AV shows up and it's all electronic sounds and YZ references and only some very high level connections to NTAE (not being able to wake up, the fake world vs. the real world, etc). What the hell could follow those two EPs in a way that sounds predictable? I guess maybe just something that sounds like both of them at once (i.e. the way Dear World, sounds like it could be on AV and Not Anymore sounds like it could be on NTAE)?

[BRoswell]

To be honest, when it comes to the narrative, I keep coming back to the first lyrics in The Wretched: "Just a reflection. Just a glimpse. Just a little reminder." It's essentially a narrative that peeks into other narratives, specifically the narratives of The Downward Spiral and Year Zero. It's almost as if he's checking out his own alternate realities. I don't know if that's by design, but that's how it feels.

[tremolo]

To be honest, when it comes to the narrative, I keep coming back to the first lyrics in The Wretched: "Just a reflection. Just a glimpse. Just a little reminder." It's essentially a narrative that peeks into other narratives, specifically the narratives of The Downward Spiral and Year Zero. It's almost as if he's checking out his own alternate realities. I don't know if that's by design, but that's how it feels.

Good observation!

I think that this “character” moving through alternate realities is trent himself, blurring the line between reality and fiction, hence all the references to previous works (in nin and ouside nin).

There is no way he planned it this way from the beginning, but it seem’s he’s found lots of ties in his body of work to come up with something this elaborate.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Not every album has to have a direct storyline and narrative and hidden meaning. Sometimes its just cool music.

[sonic_discord]

People DEFINITELY went too crazy with the ARG that doesn't exist.

[katara]

the ARG that doesn't exist.

There may not be a hugely extensive ARG but we know 42E is involved and there are hints all over the place to suggest that the new material links heavily into Year Zero.

[cheddamash]

People DEFINITELY went too crazy with the ARG that doesn't exist.

There may not be a hugely extensive ARG but we know 42E is involved and there are hints all over the place to suggest that the new material links heavily into Year Zero.

Don't forget Trent posting the back cover of AV on instagram saying, "REMEMBER WHEN RECORDS HAD BACK COVERS? NO? MAYBE THIS ONE IS IMPORTANT."

There's plenty of hints at something bigger. Whether this will become a full blown, YZ style ARG is yet to be seen. Even if not, this is still way more immersive and involved than the average band's latest record and most other NIN records for that matter. Think about it, what other band goes through this much effort to tell a story. The vast majority of records get released as an all inclusive little package. The band will drop an album, announce a tour, and repeat a few years later. Here we are still discussing the story 8 months since we've read the latest chapter. I think TR has spoiled us.

[sonic_discord]

There may not be a hugely extensive ARG but we know 42E is involved and there are hints all over the place to suggest that the new material links heavily into Year Zero.

I am aware that 42E is credited in the PC with "World Integration and Execution," but I don't think it amounted to much. There are some references to the Year Zero ARG, yes, I'll give you that.

Don't forget Trent posting the back cover of AV on instagram saying, "REMEMBER WHEN RECORDS HAD BACK COVERS? NO? MAYBE THIS ONE IS IMPORTANT."
There's plenty of hints at something bigger. Whether this will become a full blown, YZ style ARG is yet to be seen.

Yes, I remember that too. BUT it's been 8 months since he said that and no one has figured out WHY it was important. MAYBE the 3rd EP will reveal/explain why, but I'm beginning to think that if there WAS a plan for it to tie into EP3, it may have been abandoned in favor of the less predictable direction they've decided to take things. Who knows, we'll see. I'm sure it'll be awesome either way. I just know that I've read a lot of posts here where people are REALLY reaching in their attempts to make sense of this "something bigger."

Even if not, this is still way more immersive and involved than the average band's latest record and most other NIN records for that matter. Think about it, what other band goes through this much effort to tell a story. The vast majority of records get released as an all inclusive little package. The band will drop an album, announce a tour, and repeat a few years later. Here we are still discussing the story 8 months since we've read the latest chapter. I think TR has spoiled us.

I agree with you there for sure.

[mauro995]

Do you remember Bowie's album Outside? It was a conceptual album that told a story in a non-linear way. The songs were hints of things that happened, but they were like some pieces of a big puzzle and the story was some kind of mistery. I feel like Trent is trying to do something similar with these EPs. I agree that with what we have so far you can't call this an ARG but there is definitely a narrative in this project, and the hidden lyrics, the artwork and all of this stuff are part of it.

[eversonpoe]

what if we fucked up and because we didn't figure it out trent is never going to tell us why the back cover of AV was important or why the artwork for NTAE is a black & white version of the artwork for still or if there actually is deeper meaning or an ARG?

[Dr Channard]

what if we fucked up and because we didn't figure it out trent is never going to tell us why the back cover of AV was important or why the artwork for NTAE is a black & white version of the artwork for still or if there actually is deeper meaning or an ARG?

Not saying is his best play. People spinning their wheels trying to connect all kinds of dots... if there is some kind of grand puzzle in play maybe we just don't have the right pieces yet. Maybe the third ep will be the key. Or, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Either way, the mystery of it all is kind of cool, I hope he never tells and let's us devote life-wrecking amounts of time in effort to unlocking its secrets.

[versusreality]

I'm just glad we've had such an extensive catalog of music from Trent the past few years, and that trend will continue this year. I remember the days of 5 years between albums, or feeling that it was "over" after Fragile/AATCB and then later the Wave Goodbye tour. waiting another 3 months at most? not a big deal at all. incredibly grateful.

[witte]

I'm just glad we've had such an extensive catalog of music from Trent the past few years, and that trend will continue this year. I remember the days of 5 years between albums, or feeling that it was "over" after Fragile/AATCB and then later the Wave Goodbye tour. waiting another 3 months at most? not a big deal at all. incredibly grateful.

open discusion: for me still the matter 'quantity versus quality'. still the feeling 'quality has lost because of the quantity'

[versusreality]

open discusion: for me still the matter 'quantity versus quality'. still the feeling 'quality has lost because of the quantity'

fair point. I would argue that his film scores are better than the recent NIN output. but, that's a matter of preference on my part. I happen to lean more towards ambient, atmospheric music these days and his film scores are just that. this is not a knock on NIN's music over the past 5 years, just an observation. there are times when I need that aggression, so songs like Not Anymore are perfect for that.

one thing I think we can all (possibly) agree on: Trent's production skills have gotten better over the years (specifically starting with Ghosts). this is probably an obvious statement. but man, his stuff is just so well produced. (always was, but I feel it's been taken to new levels ).

[witte]

Arrangements and productions:....even his bad songs sound good.


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[Pbgut]

Very excited we have even a vague release date for June. I believe they said awhile back that if they had to do a score, it would increase the wait time, and it looks like that's what happened. This has been my favorite run of NIN releases since the Fragile days, so I hope the 3rd one doesn't disappoint!

[mexicoler]

i'm starting to think that even if he wasn't planning to, trent just might make up an arg for the next release so people here would be happy

[gamecat235]

But for all this effort, there is a lot of continued world building going on for this to amount to just a “oh that stuff? It was kind of just an homage to the YZ era”. I mean, the physical components, the involvement of 42E, the return to the world that spawned the YZ ARG, he’s already played and won this game before. It doesn’t make sense to just tease with echoes of it.

Now... all that said? Is it possible that there just isn’t enough information to put the puzzle together yet? Or that the concept was dropped along the way? Absolutely. But to just come out and say that there isn’t a new ARG based on evidence? That seems shortsighted. There’s too much in the way of breadcrumbs, but so far the structure, much like the artwork in the last PC, is only wireframes.

Do I hope like mad that something is there? Sure. I mean, the closing of TBW, the video of Burning Bright, and hell, the weird recursive thematic elements that bring HTDA into the mix made us all look a bit closer... but I think you have to be a hell of a cynic to just say “all that? It’s nothing more than the usual effort that goes into the aesthetic of a release”.

I’m content to revisit, rethink, and reevaluate for as long as needed, but nothing has said “nope, nothing to see here” for me yet.

[afors]

But for all this effort, there is a lot of continued world building going on for this to amount to just a “oh that stuff? It was kind of just an homage to the YZ era”. I mean, the physical components, the involvement of 42E, the return to the world that spawned the YZ ARG, he’s already played and won this game before. It doesn’t make sense to just tease with echoes of it.

Now... all that said? Is it possible that there just isn’t enough information to put the puzzle together yet? Or that the concept was dropped along the way? Absolutely. But to just come out and say that there isn’t a new ARG based on evidence? That seems shortsighted. There’s too much in the way of breadcrumbs, but so far the structure, much like the artwork in the last PC, is only wireframes.

Do I hope like mad that something is there? Sure. I mean, the closing of TBW, the video of Burning Bright, and hell, the weird recursive thematic elements that bring HTDA into the mix made us all look a bit closer... but I think you have to be a hell of a cynic to just say “all that? It’s nothing more than the usual effort that goes into the aesthetic of a release”.

I’m content to revisit, rethink, and reevaluate for as long as needed, but nothing has said “nope, nothing to see here” for me yet.

"Are you ever concerned that the hunt for clues overshadows the music?"
"Certainly with Year Zero it did. We went crazy with that album, building a world and telling a story that was mainly meant to provide context for the music. And what happened was that far more attention was paid to what the world was and how that got revealed than was paid to the music. If anyone actually bothered to fucking listen, Year Zero was a good fucking album. I’m not saying every album should be something that invites people down a rabbit hole. I’m just saying I care about context." TR

Couple that with the whole Vinyl statement and paying attention to his music, I'd say ARG is not happening. He's just messing with us enough to tweak our interest and pay attention to the releases. I'm not saying that there isn't a connected message in each of the releases.