Likes: 
Faceplams: If nothing else, let this be a reminder of how Disney can buy/intimidate people into giving their premium franchise pieces glowing reviews.
Throbbing Member
If nothing else, let this be a reminder of how Disney can buy/intimidate people into giving their premium franchise pieces glowing reviews.
BADGERS
Spoiler: . Also, since we are supposed to give up hope on Kylo Ren.... Which I still find incredibly stupid and toxic.... Are we just sentencing the Skywalker line to extinction???
It's about a family abandoning their child. Especially striking given that it really is Luke's fault, and given how persistent Luke was in trying to redeem his father
I don't think that the conclusion we want here, is it???
Last edited by Wretchedest; 12-15-2017 at 02:06 PM.
Behold the morning star
I gotta say, I feel bad that the movie is getting trashed by fans, a 57% audience score on rotten tomatoes while it sits certified fresh from critics.
she/her/hers
rian johnson has a very unique style and flow in his films. i have seen brick well over a dozen times (four of them in the theater), the brothers bloom around 10, and looper a few times. i am a devoted rian johnson fan because of his unique touch. he brought that to star wars in a way i didn't think possible. i don't know if it's something i can properly describe because, while often eloquent, i'm not a film critic by any stretch. i just know that, to me, a rian johnson fan, it really felt like he directed it.Originally Posted by dlb
I might be taking you too literally on that but how can you say that about a director with only three other movies in the can which are fairly different in themselves and especially to Star Wars? No bad feelings though, but maybe I missed something. Couldn't really see his handwriting and I haven't recognized one so far by Johnson.
BADGERS
As it sits with me I'm realizing
Spoiler: . They really blew their load on the throne room scene. That should have been one of the last scenes of the trilogy, or even one of the last subplots, with Ren and Return fighting their way out of an imperial ship before it explodes. Ren had to turn to light to make this trilogy great. And as much of disposing of sboke and all the questions associated was a brilliant idea, we are left with very little to look forward to in Episode 9
Stubby Member
As a fan of Rian Johnson's previous work, almost without exception, oh this was a punch in the gut for me.
This had a lot of redeeming qualities as a stand alone film, but man it took a hot steaming dump on the entire franchise and everything that had come before it. On Lucas, on the OT cast, the prequels, even TFA.
It ambitiously did all this, but managed to accomplish nothing in the process outside of some decent fleeting dialogue and some good acting performances.
We have no clue on the direction of IX, no firm answers to anything structural to the story, and even the few answers it sort of provided were extremely vague, and can essentially be retconned on a whim moving forward if they need it to serve the story.
In that sense this movie was even more cowardly than TFA, and was a masturbatory effort from someone who supposed "love" for the franchise was overpowered by his ego to do something "different" but not do any of the heavy lifting to show any kind of real sustained long term vision.
I always encourage filmmakers to create waves in the sandbox they have signed up to play in, but remember it's not the name of the back of jersey but the logo on the front that matters. Johnson decided not even to play in the one he apparently grew up loving. The sheer audacity to think he could create an entirely new sandbox in 2 hours, or to simply decide "look there actually is no sandbox anymore" in the middle of a trilogy is maddening.
As mentioned it's not without merit, and it did even come close at times before straying away at the last second each and every time, but I will be haunted for a long time by the fact someone who is a talented writer/director, who obviously loves film, who supposedly grew up loving Star Wars could make a film like this with so many perplexingly disloyal choices. I can't get TLJ out of my head and remarkably, this is not a good thing. It's utterly depressingly to find out that one of your favorite directors is that narcissistic.
I wanted a Star Wars movie, and he gave us a Rian Johnson film instead. I wish I could enjoy that more but I just can't.
Active Member
O sheesh.
This movie was awesome.
BADGERS
Ironically, a movie thematically about hubris
Active Member
TLJ had some of the most epic scenes in Star Wars history, but TFA was overall a better movie. In any case, I liked it a lot, and gonna watch it again tomorrow.
Stubby Member
I thought The Last Jedi was excellent. I liked it better than The Force Awakens. There were a few things that were anticlimactic and could have been handled better, but overall this film is well worth a trip to the theater. The strongest part of The Force Awakens and what kept me interested were the main characters, and seeing them stepping up to the forefront and drive the story instead of relying on a wave of nostalgia and nods to previous movies (not to say those elements aren't there, but it's in smaller doses) was refreshing. I was concerned after Rogue One's unapologetic pandering to Star Wars fans' check lists that would have made a Member Berry blush that we'd get The Empire Strikes Back 2017 beat for beat, but instead things were taken in new and interesting directions. It was a welcomed change, and I'm looking forward to seeing it again.
Active Member
Where is Rabbit? I want to know what he has to say.
Behold the morning star
Dont bring him into this please
Active Member
Ok, for those that have seen TLJ, would you say it's better or worse than TFA?
BADGERS
It's better, by a lot. One of it's plotlines is hot fucking garbage, the rest is great. I'm just mad at the parts that hold it back from greatness.
One or two other things stick out as painfully bad. You'll understand when you see it, even if you like it, why it is the most controversial star wars film
Active Member
Spoiler: I'm assuming you're referring to the casino subplot. Am I right? I liked the movie overall, but I did not enjoy that whole story-line and the scene where they ride those horse-like animals felt right out of the prequel trilogy in a very bad way. They could have cut that whole subplot out or reduced it to a breif scene or two, in my opinion. I DID really liked the scene with Yoda (although his acting – if you can call it that – seemed just a tad off, more in line with the character he pretends to be when Luke first encounters him on Dagobah before learning his true identity). I also really liked pretty much all of the scenes with Luke and Poe, and the throne room scene with Rey and Kylo. Another nit-picky thing for me was that they seemed to be making up new "force powers" that previously had no precedent in Star Wars before, like Luke "projecting" himself like a hologram. I currently can't decide whether I liked it more or less than TFA. I need to digest more and perhaps see it again before making that judgement.
Throbbing Member
The last third of the movie was fantastic. Up until then it was really disappointing. This movie has amazing moments (Kylo and Rey interactions throughout, Luke and Kylo fight) and absolutely terrible moments (flying Leia was really fucking jumping the shark for Star Wars universe, entire Benicio Del Toro character subplot, new general Leia whatever her name was). It was extremely long and it felt like it. If they trimmed the movie down, paced it better, get rid of the stupid moments and uninteresting characters, it could have been amazing movie. But it wasn't. It was okay, but far from excellent.
Spoiler: Also Luke's death was completely unnecessary and although I get the whole theme of the movie was "everything old must die (except for flying Leia)" I'm at the point where I don't really give a shit about ep. 9, because really the only interesting character left is Kylo, and that's not enough to carry the movie for me.
Last edited by telee.kom; 12-16-2017 at 03:48 AM.
Active Member
To give you an alternate answer from the one you already got: it's worse. And now that I sleeped on it, it's worse by a lot - still an awesome movie to sit through.
- A garbage subplot is just one of the many issues with this movie. That subplot also introduces a new, garbage character, who later defies everything the Rebels stand for. Remember Rogue One? How a couple of brave soldiers did everything they could to help the Rebel's cause? Yeah? Well, Rian Johnson has a message to you buddy: fuck you.
- One of the main plots, which is happening - not on screen all the time of course - throughout 85% of the movie is absolutely ridiculous. That is some B-movie level of tension creating. I don't know Rian Johnson, and he did some of the most amazing SW scenes I have ever seen in this movie, but he also wrote and directed that ridiculously shit idea.
- There is one scene where many people say TLJ "jumoped the shark". Man, I disagree. I think it was awesome. But then Rian forgot he did that in the first 30 minutes and it lead NOWHERE except creating plotholes. There are many scenes in the movie after that, where you should absolutely ask yourself "wait, if that happened earlier, then why [said character] not doing jackshit now?"
- The humor. Man, I laughed a lot. Man, I know SW was always a bit silly. But man, that is some blind excuse for this movie, where it went over the top. You think BB-8 giving the thumbs up in episode VII was too much? Well, this episode has some theater level over the top comedy in store for you. Once again, I must have some trash taste in humor because I audibly laughed at all of them, but even then I knew some of them were extremely cheap and not fit the scenes at all. If you are going with a kid though, then it's a plus.
- Unevenly paced. Not terrible, like Rogue One's first half, where characters only changed when they read the next page of the script and it said "now you behave like this for no apparent reason other than we are running out of time", but still bad. You absolutely have to just watch the first hour on autopilot. Do not ask any "whys" or "hows". The next 1,5 hours will be awesome, so stay put.
- Rian Johnson apparently loathes TFA. Maybe not, but one thing was clear as day: he deliberately retconned many stuff from TFA in a rather amateur or even childish way. I don't mind if trilogies vastly differ in tone, but it was quite fucking annoying, when part of TLJ were straight up radiated some TFA hate, like "look guys, fuck those ideas, I'm gonna piss all over them hahaha!!!" - said by the same man who gave us all these bullshit above. Some people will tell you that the way Rian defied some movie tropes is a genius move, but my opinion is that they were extremely cheap and a fan service that is satisfying for like 8 hours. TFA - as a whole - was a fan service that still gives me chills, and even though I'm watching TLJ again today, I'd gladly switch it to TFA.
And the list could go on, but I was already on the edge of spoilers. As a movie, TLJ has nothing on TFA. The latter was consistent from start to finish and every second mattered; hell, TFA's biggest problem is that it got no chill at all. In contrast, TLJ feels like it's a best of compilation from a 22 episodes long Star Wars TV series stuffed into 2,5 hours - and some of the episodes must've royally sucked if those were the best scenes they could milk from them.
Last edited by Volband; 12-16-2017 at 04:08 AM.
Active Member
Spoiler: I still like Poe a lot. One thing this movie did great is not being all that black and white. On one hand, Poe's bravery was over the top and he kept saving the day with his heroics and everyone liked him. On the other hand, he made a dozen people killed and later did the equivalent of treason. I think Poe learned a lot of valuable lessons in this movie and he is set up to be an amazing character in Episode IX. I have hope in J.J.
Now, I still like Rey too, but I'm a bit confused about her right now so I need some more time to buffer the events involving her.
Active Member
Well (and not yet having seen TLJ), this trilogy is about Rey, Poe, Finn, Kylo, etc. Luke, Han and Leia are there to pass the torch.
That said, this movie reminds me of the responce to SPECTRE--people seemed to either love or strongly dislike it.
Professional Wrestler
Really enjoyed this film. I had my gripes, as did everybody..way too joke-y for me. I thought the movie was great...not amazing..but great. 7/10.
BADGERS
Spoiler: Rey is ultra simple. I liked her in VII but in this movie they hand waved a lot of depth by giving her no flaws. I like that her parents were no one.
Active Member
Going to see this on Monday with some trepidation. Agree with my husband that we’d have preferred it if the film was loved by fans and hated by critics. Managed to avoid actual spoilers so far though
BADGERS
I actually hated that moment from the get go, and when they didn't do anything more with it it was even more upsetting.
Spoiler: they should have killed Leia right then and there. It would have been a powerful a moment. Arandom act of war that she wasn't too special to survive. This entire franchises future is so ambiguous right now, because they left Leia for XI. They should have given us some closure....
Professional Wrestler
I have a theory about the "Jumping the shark" scene:
Spoiler: I would NOT be surprised if in Episode 9 they reveal that it was not Leia using the force herself to float back to the ship, but Kylo saving her. When The Force Awakens released, I saw it twice opening day, (and have probably seen it 20 times since) ever since the 2nd viewing I've believed that it wasn't Kylo that activated the lightsaber that killed Han, but Han activated it... Kylo "knew what he had to do" to attempt to end the eternal struggle within him self to become dark..but he "didn't have the strength to do it" So Han, knowing even though it would not help the rebels, it would help his son, activated it for him. Cut to TLJ, Kylo clearly hesitated on firing on the bridge.. He WANTS to be evil, but cannot sacrifice his family.
Will I be upset if what i predicted isn't the way they go? Eh, it'd be disappointing as it seems perfect.
will I let that ruin it? Not at all.
BADGERS
That would be a neat save. We are pretty far away from many of the best possible outcomes for IX. Who the fuck knows what that'll be like
Active Member
Just got home from my second watching. I feel like TLJ is the biggest smoke-screen episode in the franchise. It is ACTUALLY hot garbage under the not even so fancy surface. TFA was a great movie based on a recycled story; TLJ is a painfully mediocre movie based on a mostly recycled story. I am extremely happy that J.J. is returning for the last episode, because Rian absolutely lost the plot and there is no excuse for it.
Attack of the Clones is still my most hated episode, but at least it makes sense and has a place. I'll try to write more later, but I am very sad right now. On the second watch, even some of my favorite scenes were ruined. Like when Spoiler: the Rebel pilots are torpedoed to death in the hangar at the beginning. Yesterday, I thought goddaaaaaamn, this is going to be a dark movie, isn't it? And today I saw that in that scene Spoiler: BB-8 (who jumped a shark at least twice in this episode, he did much bigger bullshits than leia) was being blasted to the wall, lost his head, but recovered it. Rian made a scene which was supposed to be about the horror of war and how being the "good guys" means jackshit, because they don't have plot armors, they don't always die like a hero, sometimes they are brutally massacred, so he made that fucking scene into a cartoony comic-relief, taking away any legitimacy and substance. Bravo, Mr. Rian! I really hope the news are true that you get your own Star Wars trilogy, because I can't wait to waste money on it.
Ahhhh....
she/her/hers
my friend Ted has a pretty solid theory:
Spoiler: The story this trilogy is (was) clearly telling is now officially well and truly fucked now that it cannot have Leia in the last part. I worried that was the case and now I am sure of it.
The clear intended structure was Han Movie-> Luke Movie->Leia Movie. The Force and Leia was the gun placed on the mantel in Jedi; her big scene saving herself from dying in the vacuum of space here was Johnson and the franchise putting bullets in the gun with a flourish. She leads the forces of light; her son leads the forces of darkness and they have never had a scene together, while both of the men in her life have gone to confront him and then passed. The entire subtext of this trilogy is the legends of past generation atoning for their mistakes and trying to do right and pass the torch to their successors--we've seen Han and Luke's mistakes. Leia's mistakes have been implied, but not explored yet.
As a writer, I see all the blocks locking in place--these two movies now make manifest a delightfully tidy structure and great forward strategy, suggesting a lovely and evocative climax with Leia front and center.
That was clearly the story they wanted to tell. And it looks like it would have been a great one.
And now they can't finish it.
Active Member
To be fair, it is a great watch at first and it has its moments. Only when you sit down discussing it is when you realize that you were kinda robbed from many things.
Attack of the Clones is just straight out boring for example.
This is nothing new. Think about video game reviews for example.
Also, what if Episode IX gets stellar review as well? We will still don't know if it's some form of bribery and it is actually as lackluster as EPVIII, or if it's a great movie for real.
How about they blew any fucking load on the Spoiler: island scenes? The extreme potential Rian missed there is so infuriating... I know, it wasn't him to wrote the story of VII, but man, don't act like a child and "lel what should i write here?? XDDD", try to maker something out of it for fucks sake. And there are soooo many other stuff he just casually ignored or messed up.... for no good reason at all.
I also liked her acting. I don't get people who say she is a bad actor. She was amazing in that scene when she tried to Spoiler: snatch the lightsaber from kylo but he reacted in time. That look from her was soooo fucking genuine and real it made me smile. But yeah, Rian goofed her character big time; see my rant about the island scenes.
Edit number 57: @Wretchedest why do you like TLJ a lot more than TFA? I am really curious because it seems to me that you - like me, and many others - too are onto the bullshit of episode VIII, yet for some reason you think it's better than TFA. So yeah, I'm curious.
Last edited by Volband; 12-16-2017 at 12:57 PM.
Active Member
^^^that makes me feel better actually, thank you, because I honestly just want a fun and exciting adventure, I’m not down for micro analysis
Active Member
Man, the funny thing is, I actually disagree with many haters. A lot of those people's biggest complain is that they had an exact idea in mind about the story or certain character and Rian said "fuck you, it's my story". So yeah, as bad as Rian did in the movie, he actually pulled many brave stuff off, so I'm 50-50 on the guy. I can't feel sympathy for the people who are sad that they fanfic did not come alive.
Another strength of the movie is that it feels weird; it challenges you a bit. Rogue One was as complex as a fucking stone, but TLJ has actual layers to it and you can't quite put your finger on what's gonna happen next.
Also, while TLJ screws over some of the characters you might hope to have a good role in it, it actually does well with the rest. It's like 50-50. Again, Rogue One's characters were stupid and one-dimensional, but TLJ tries to make many characters as complex as it gets. Whether it succeeds or not is a debate, one you can join if you want after watching the movie.
I also liked the non-funny fan-service in the movie. I think those scenes were great.
And of course, every fight is cool, but that's almost excepted now. I mean, the only reason to watch Rogue One is to fastforward to the last 40 minutes, so imagine that quality with an actual story and characters.
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