General Police Misconduct aka Murdering Black People

[tony.parente]

Haaaaaaahahaha

Well, at least they're weeding out the wackos. That's really good.

I understand these officers are on edge, working 13+ hour days for god knows how long for the most part not wanting to be there while they're facing angry protesters/rioters/looters etc. I understand that sometimes you have enough douchebags putting their phones in your face that you're going to eventually say something that you're not supposed to, but what he did WASN'T ok.

[allegro]

NYT piece, Key factor in police shootings, 'reasonable fear'

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/23..._r=0&referrer=

Interesting:

David Klinger, also a former police officer and a professor and criminologist at the University of Missouri-St. Louis, has interviewed in depth about 300 officers who fired weapons in confrontations with suspects. A blow to the head by itself would not justify a shooting, he said, but other factors also could be at work.

“Sometimes you make a straight-up mistake,” Mr. Klinger said. “ ‘He punched me, so I shot him.’ Punching and shooting don’t go together unless you’re much bigger than me or you have martial arts training.”

“Let the physical evidence tell us what happened,” said Pat Diaz, a former South Florida homicide detective who investigated more than 100 police shootings and now works as a court-certified expert witness. “How badly injured was the police officer? Was he dazed? Was Michael Brown on drugs? Let’s see what’s really going on here.”

“He may have been pulling the trigger out of pure adrenaline, because he was in fear,” Mr. Diaz said. “If the cop has no injuries, then it’s clear-cut and hard to say he should have been shot. It’s all going to be told by the physical evidence.”

Similarly, said Mr. Kobilinsky of John Jay, “If a felon is fleeing and is known to be unarmed and poses no danger of bodily harm to either a police officer or civilians in the area, then the officer will no doubt have legal issues if he uses deadly force to subdue that person.”

[Deepvoid]

Another officer involved in manning security in Ferguson suspended.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/mis...html?hpt=hp_t1

[allegro]

Another officer involved in manning security in Ferguson suspended.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/mis...html?hpt=hp_t1

Yeah we were just laughing about that 2 posts up.

[Dra508]

Ferguson Police Report Raises More Questions Than It Answers
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5701131.html

Ferguson PD don't seem to be helping themselves. I read so many quotes from folks saying that a lot of this could have been avoided had the PD just provided more information in a timely manner.

I heard this interview with the Philadelphia Police Chief on the radio the other day which it gave some good insight as to what is suppose to happen relative to deadly force. http://www.npr.org/2014/08/20/341958...s-use-of-force


One thing this police chief mentioned was the benefit of foot patrol over cops being in cars. I totally agree with this. Little Lilly white me knew exactly who the day time beat cop was in my neighborhood in Manhattan growing up. Big Dude with giant brass buttons on his coat. He knew the neighborhood. I don't know how realistic that is in this suburban world, but this chief was quoting stats on reduction in crime in areas he had established regular foot patrol.

As for looting, that happens in many situations, not just racial. Hurricane aftermath, power black outs, futbol....

[Satyr]

Related to the militarization of police.

http://www.10news.com/news/cal-state...ossible-gunman

[tony.parente]

As for looting, that happens in many situations, not just racial. Hurricane aftermath, power black outs, futbol....

Yeah the ferg just happens to be a mostly black area surrounded by other mostly black areas. All colors loot and riot.

[Swykk]

It's good you've seemingly changed your stance through the course of this thread, Tony. This isn't the kinds of things you were saying and agreeing with earlier or especially on Facebook. I'm legitimately pleased to see it, no sarcasm.

"So two cops were doing their job" and "just for LOLs" in reference to Officer GoFuckYourself? I'll take these new reactions over those any day. Well done.

[tony.parente]

It's good you've seemingly changed your stance through the course if this thread, Tony. This isn't the kinds of things you were saying and agreeing with earlier or especially on Facebook. I'm legitimately pleased to see it, no sarcasm.

"So two cops were doing their job" and "just for LOLs" in reference to Officer GoFuckYourself? I'll take these new reactions over those any day. Well done.

I have the same opinions on the matter that I always have. Period.

[Sarah K]

I'm almost positive that he was being serious.

[DigitalChaos]

Yeahhhh....you can't do that. Also in regards to that psychopath cop who was pointing his automatic rifle at protesters saying he was going to kill them, I was talking to a few police friends of mine who are working down there and he's not just suspended...he's fired.

yessssss yesssssss
it's shit like this that makes me happy to give money to the ACLU.

[DigitalChaos]

I'd like to take the time to point out the 1st and 4th amendment activists that frequently get a bad name for "making trouble" and tend to be lumped in with open carry activists. I'm talking about the people who intentionally record cops in hopes of being approached by them and then refuse to answer any questions unless the cop can provide RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime). Sometimes they go through border checkpoints and sobriety checkpoints for the same.

You can find a lot of videos of them over at http://www.reddit.com/r/amifreetogo , among other places.

What do you guys think of them? I've seen the majority of them have a positive impact. They educate quite a large number of police departments, even if it means going to court over it. They actively seek out known areas where photographers were told to stop recording in public, etc.

[Swykk]

I was 100% serious. I even said so ("no sarcasm").

Am I still upset at some of the "sources" he was throwing links up to elsewhere? Yeah. And he absolutely has changed his stance which is great. Again, for real, zero snark. Writing me off as just a cop hating nutjob is a mistake too (evidence is plentiful to prove I'm not, I just want a change in how we hire and monitor police).
But I'll take this as progress. And it is.

[tony.parente]

https://www.gofundme.com/OfficerWilsonFundraiser
To those wanting to help support officer Wilson the best you can, I've donated $50.

[Sarah K]

lol...

Or, you can... you know, donate to help the victim's family. Just a thought!

http://www.gofundme.com/justiceformikebrown

[tony.parente]

I'm glad there is an option for both sides, thanks @Sarah K !

[skip niklas]

Hey, look, check this out!!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/mis...ded/index.html

I saw that yesterday. Apparently the lecture is two years old and this guy has been doing all kinds of alternative media appearances since, as recently as a radio show last month. I'll try and find the link to the lecture in it's entirety, but a few websites and groups on social media have been digging into his claims and he seems to be lying about quite a few of his credentials. I wonder if he'll go work for a "contractor" now that he's lost his day job.

Edit: That didn't take me long.

[tony.parente]

I saw that yesterday. Apparently the lecture is two years old and this guy has been doing all kinds of alternative media appearances since, as recently as a radio show last month. I'll try and find the link to the lecture in it's entirety, but a few websites and groups on social media have been digging into his claims and he seems to be lying about quite a few of his credentials. I wonder if he'll go work for a "contractor" now that he's lost his day job.

Edit: That didn't take me long.

Dudes like that give the military and cops a bad name. WTF

[tony.parente]

Oh, and here is our interesting read of the day. It gives a bit of insight into a police officers mindset of what happens during scenarios such is this one.

http://www.policeone.com/use-of-forc...cops-response/


And another bit of reading, on the flip side sort of.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...0054&ir=Impact

One organization is working to not only honor the achievements and legacy of the late Michael Brown

Yeah his legacy being finishing highschool, strong armed robbery, assault and attempted murder of a police officer.

Missouri statute on robbery in the second degree (strong armed robbery) Chapter 569
Robbery, Arson, Burglary and Related Offenses
Section 569.030
Robbery in the second degree.
569.030. 1. A person commits the crime of robbery in the second degree when he forcibly steals property.
2. Robbery in the second degree is a class B felony.
Source: http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5690000030.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Select section from the missouri statute on assault on an officer
Chapter 565
Offenses Against the Person
Section 565.082
Assault of a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer in the second degree, definition, penalty.
565.082. 1. A person commits the crime of assault of a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer in the second degree if such person:
(1) Knowingly causes or attempts to cause physical injury to a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer by means of a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument;
Source: http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5650000082.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MURDER, ATTEMPTED
In order for a person to be found guilty of attempted murder the government must prove:
First, acting deliberately and intentionally or recklessly with extreme disregard for human life, the person attempted to kill someone; and the person did something that was a substantial step toward committing the crime. [Mere preparation is not a substantial step toward committing a crime.
Source: http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m052.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Missouri Statute on the use of lethal force by an officer
Law enforcement officer's use of force in making an arrest. 563.046. 1. A law enforcement officer need not retreat or desist from efforts to effect the arrest, or from efforts to prevent the escape from custody, of a person he reasonably believes to have committed an offense because of resistance or threatened resistance of the arrestee. In addition to the use of physical force authorized under other sections of this chapter, he is, subject to the provisions of subsections 2 and 3, justified in the use of such physical force as he reasonably believes is immediately necessary to effect the arrest or to prevent the escape from custody.
2. The use of any physical force in making an arrest is not justified under this section unless the arrest is lawful or the law enforcement officer reasonably believes the arrest is lawful.
3. A law enforcement officer in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody is justified in using deadly force only
(1) When such is authorized under other sections of this chapter; or
(2) When he reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested
(a) Has committed or attempted to commit a felony; or
(b) Is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon; or
(c) May otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.
4. The defendant shall have the burden of injecting the issue of justification under this section.
Source: http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5630000046.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mur·der
noun \ˈmər-dər\
1
: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/murder
------------------------------------------------------------------------
un·law·ful
adjective \ˌən-ˈlȯ-fəl\ : not allowed by the law
1: not lawful : illegal
Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unlawful
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
fel·on
noun \ˈfe-lən\
: a criminal who has committed a serious crime (called a felony)
Full Definition of FELON
1
: one who has committed a felony
Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/felon

TL;DR
If Mike assaulted the officer and reached for his gun the shooting was justified by law, Darren Wilson won't be charged with murder and it's safe to say if he wasn't killed he could have been charged with strong armed robbery, assault on an officer, resisting arrest and attempted murder. Thats just off the top of my head.

[skip niklas]

40 minutes into the lecture and I can say this is from earlier this year, not 2 years ago, as he references the Bundy Ranch standoff. He's a bigot but he's dropping some knowledge if you want to hear it.

[Sarah K]

He's a bigot but he's dropping some knowledge if you want to hear it.

No. Just fucking no.

That's like when people start a sentence with "I'm not racist, but"...

[tony.parente]

No. Just fucking no.

That's like when people start a sentence with "I'm not racist, but"...

I don't like that ass goblin one bit, and I refused to watch anything past what I've seen already because I have no interest in hearing that douche talk any more than I have to...but just because someone has hateful beliefs ie racism or whatever doesn't mean everything that comes out of their mouth not associated with said hateful beliefs is incorrect or without merit.

[Sarah K]

Yes it does. He obvious does not live in reality. People who believe that shit should not be taken seriously in any context.

[tony.parente]

Yes it does. He obvious does not live in reality. People who believe that shit should not be taken seriously in any context.

If I said 2 + 2 = 4 and hitler says 2 + 2 = 4 hitler isn't wrong just because he was an anti semetic psychopath.

[Sarah K]

But it does mean that he isn't worthy of anyone listening to anything that he says, no matter the subject matter.

[tony.parente]

But it does mean that he isn't worthy of anyone listening to anything that he says, no matter the subject matter.

I feel like i'd be nitpicking at this point, but you're right in that context.

Fuck Hitler AND math by the way.

[skip niklas]

Like I said, "if you want to hear it". You can throw the baby out with the bathwater if you'd like. This guy has been around, and though he may be a prejudiced dickhead, he still knows what he's talking about when he's discussing facts and not opinions.

[allegro]

40 minutes into the lecture and I can say this is from earlier this year, not 2 years ago, as he references the Bundy Ranch standoff. He's a bigot but he's dropping some knowledge if you want to hear it.

"I have highest security clearance and I have a target on my back because I know too much" and "I wouldn't work for Obama because he's undocumented" makes him sound like he's full of caca though.

[Leviathant]

This guy has been around, and though he may be a prejudiced dickhead, he still knows what he's talking about when he's discussing facts and not opinions.

Facts like the president is an undocumented immigrant?

[DigitalChaos]

Yes it does. He obvious does not live in reality. People who believe that shit should not be taken seriously in any context.

Unless, of course, you posses critical thinking skills and are capable of filtering information on your own. There is a lot of valuable info to be gained from listening to people you disagree with or even who hold demonstrably false beliefs.

Hell, those infowars idiots probably posses views that are much worse, but their coverage on ferguson has given some additional information on the ground. I just cringe every time they try to sell you their survival iodine at the end of every video. That and their obnoxious intro logo thing that has, at this point, produced a negative pavlovian response for me.

example: