Likes: 
Faceplams: I live about 40 minutes away from Ferguson, but my office is a good 25 minute drive. I think what's all the more disturbing is that Friday night before the shooting I was hanging out in Ferguson at a comic book shop.
Active Member
I live about 40 minutes away from Ferguson, but my office is a good 25 minute drive. I think what's all the more disturbing is that Friday night before the shooting I was hanging out in Ferguson at a comic book shop.
Bite me
Tribalism? Really? I think it leans heavily toward people in this forum who haven't read the discussion or the links. They read Facebook or see stuff on TV or they read the comments sections online, then come in here and assume we're that stupid. We aren't. If they can't take the time to read the links and the articles, why should we bother with them? But, yes, keeping it civil and intelligent is goal number one.Originally Posted by DigitalChaos
In some ways, Rand Paul drives me nuts; in other ways, he's okay. He ain't the 3rd party guy that's gonna make that change, though.
Last edited by allegro; 08-21-2014 at 05:57 PM.
Active Member
It's the tribalism from where Satyr's arguments come from. The belief that this is all about Black vs White and that someone needs to win that battle. The reality is so much more complex.
As for Rand Paul, he used to really piss me off. After Ferguson, I am seriously re-evaluating that. I've always voted 3rd party but I could see voting for him as a GOP candidate. He would push both the Democrats and Republicans MUCH more left on social topics. This is a huge benefit and an opportunity I haven't seen. We are talking moving decades into the future compared to the pace of the last 2 decades. We might finally see some action on all the topics that stir up national debate.
Anyway, election season is soon and I'm looking forward to what unfolds.
Active Member
This topic is examined in much more detail here. There is some great analysis of public data. There are also a lot of rhetorical topics rebutted.
http://tremblethedevil.com/?p=3523
"If the War on Drugs didn’t directly precipitate the destruction of the African-American family, why did the decline in married black women triple during the first decade of the War? And why did welfare spending spike in lockstep with our prison population right as it started?"
We need to AT LEAST level the playing field. And we should do that by removing the barriers that have been created (drug war, etc), not by trying to "help" people through resource redistribution (welfare, etc).
Trollhunter
Oh man. That's fucking rich, @allegro .
As for Satyr. That'll make two racists blocked this week. It's a shame it's 2014 and that mentality still exists.
Throbbing Member
Would the lack of comprehension of what going on relevant to this thread?
I'm overwhelmed by the amount of B.S. that the majority of people keep spewing about whats going on at Ferguson within my college campus/work here in Missouri.
I honestly thought people are more self aware of the things they say and process information.
It's sad to see people believing in the hype and horrible news coverage without indicating a well informed opinion. Maybe the news is to blame?
Long ago I've come to the conclusion that not many people use their common sense and just reiterate what they hear on the news and what they read on facebook and other social mediums?
I honestly don't understand why.
Is it because they don't care and find self-importance by trying to stay relevant by repeating the crap they read/hear?
To say on topic; here is an interesting interview with a perspective that I found informative:
Active Member
Yup. Social media is basically the biggest "water cooler" or break room now. People want to have something to talk about. It's frequently in the form of current events, sports, etc. Everyone wants to have an opinion. They take the quickest route possible to achieving an opinion. It's one of the biggest problems with a properly functioning democracy. Thank the fucking spaghetti monster that our legal system digs into topics very deeply. I wish we had a similar depth of process in all of Congress.
and holy fuck that video. I can't believe CNN didn't cut away from their bickering after 5min of it.
Captain Rustleboots
Still waiting for you to back up your statement that I'm racist, you blocked me because you couldn't. Because im not.
Quiet Member
I've got one simple question....If Michael Brown was white and the cop was black...would this be national news?
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
Are white men regularly getting gunned down by black cops?
Quiet Member
I'm quite sure it's never happened before.
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
If it happens with the regularity that young black men are shot by white cops, then sure... We can have that discussion.
Until then, no. Troll harder.
Quiet Member
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58...-salt.html.csp
Or wait....It does....You just don't care because it was a black cop shooting a white kid.
Captain Rustleboots
Disregard sorry
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
In this case, the officer was wearing a body camera, and the entire incident was captured. The correct story will come out one way or another.
As far as I'm aware, the officer's name in that case has yet to be released. We don't know who he is.
And again:
Last edited by Sarah K; 08-22-2014 at 08:40 AM.
Bite me
If the local community held a protest about it, and then the local PD brought out SWAT TEAMS TO HANDLE THE PROTESTERS AND STARTED ARRESTING JOURNALISTS, yes. Absolutely.
This only got to be THIS huge when Ferguson police pulled out their fucking SWAT teams during peaceful local protests. Which was total overkill. Had the Ferguson PD handled this differently, this probably would have floated away like a turd. People get shot and killed by police all the time and it don't make even the local news. It was the SWAT teams and the PD's treatment of journalists that brought all the attention, not the actual shooting.
HENCE THE POINT OF THIS THREAD.
The point of this thread is multi-faceted: the militarization of police after September 11th; that police have a set of standards regarding when to use lethal force; that the police do not have the unilateral and unencumbered power to infringe on journalists' 1st Amendment rights; that small town police don't need fucking SWAT teams; that releasing information to the public as soon as possible probably avoids all of this crap; that if the Ferguson PD thought it was important enough to release the store footage under FOIA, it is equally important to release all other information under FOIA; that the police can't point loaded assault weapons at protesters and threaten to kill them; that is still very serious racial tension in this country, and some police departments ain't making it any better; that CNN and other news outlets are often totally full of shit, throwing gasoline on the fire.
We've chosen not to focus on race because we know racial inequity exists; that's a no-brainer. If you'd like to start a White Power thread, feel free to do so. In the meantime, this thread has been focused on the bolded points, above.
The Salt Lake City case is JUST AS IMPORTANT as this Brown case. They are all about this SAME THING WE ARE DISCUSSING IN THIS THREAD.
Last edited by allegro; 08-22-2014 at 10:09 AM.
Bite me
He posted a link to this: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58...-salt.html.csp
Which was a really good point, the guy holding this sign:
Bite me
Don Lemon is a terrible interviewer, TERRIBLE. he loves to hear himself talk.
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
There is also an interview with the chief of police there who said that they aren't seeing the problems that Ferguson is because they're aren't sending their officers out in riot gear for peaceful protests.
Bite me
Here is a link to the 1033 Program FAQ page:
http://www.dispositionservices.dla.m...ogramfaqs.aspx
When and why was the program created?
Answer: In the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Years 1990 and 1991, Congress authorized the transfer of excess DOD personal property to federal and state agencies for use in counter-drug activities. Congress later passed the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1997; this act allows all law enforcement agencies to acquire property for bona fide law enforcement purposes that assist in their arrest and apprehension mission. Preference is given to counter-drug and counter-terrorism requests.
Who runs the program?
Answer: The program came under the Defense Logistics Agency’s jurisdiction in October 1995. The Law Enforcement Support Office (LESO), located at DLA Disposition Services Headquarters in Battle Creek, Michigan, oversees the program.
What controls does the program have?
Answer: For states to participate in the program, they must each set up a business relationship with DLA through a Memorandum of Agreement (MOA). Each participating state’s governor is required to appoint a State Coordinator to ensure the program is used correctly by the participating law enforcement agencies. The State Coordinators are expected to maintain property accountability records and to investigate any alleged misuse of property, and in certain cases, to report violations of the Memorandum of Agreement to DLA. State Coordinators are aggressive in suspending law enforcement agencies who abuse the program.
Additionally, DLA has a compliance review program. The program’s objective is to have the LESO staff visit each state coordinator and assist him or her in ensuring that property accountability records are properly maintained, minimizing the potential for fraud, waste and abuse.
Who participates in the program?
Answer: Over 8,000 federal and state law enforcement agencies from all 50 states and the U.S. territories participate in the program. A law enforcement agency is a government agency whose primary function is the enforcement of applicable federal, state and local laws and whose compensated law enforcement officers have the powers of arrest and apprehension.
How does the program work?
Answer: Once law enforcement agencies have been approved to participate in the 1033 Program by the State Coordinator and the Law Enforcement Support Office (LESO), the law enforcement agencies appoint officials to visit their local DLA Disposition Services Site. They will screen property and place requests for specific items by submitting requisitions on the Enterprise Business Portal RTDWeb page. The item must have a justification and be approved by both the State Coordinator and the LESO Staff. Law enforcement agencies that receive approval for property must cover all transportation and/or shipping costs.
Who determines what material is available to law enforcement agencies?
Answer: DLA has final authority to determine the type, quantity and location of excess military property suitable for use in law enforcement activities.
What other organizations have access to DoD's excess material?
Answer: DLA, specifically its DLA Disposition Services, has responsibility for Department of Defense property disposal. There are several stages in the property disposal process. Reutilization and transfer comprise the first stage. Reutilization involves the military services and other DoD components and organizations receiving access to excess property either by public law or DoD policy-the Law Enforcement Support program is part of reutilization. Transfers occur when federal civilian agencies receive excess property.
The second stage is the donation stage, where excess property that is determined to be surplus to the military’s needs is provided to organizations, such as state and local governments as well as homeless shelters, under the General Services Administration’s donation programs. The final stage consists of surplus property sales to the general public.
What are some ways in which law enforcement agencies use the equipment they acquire?
Answer: Law enforcement agencies use the equipment in a variety of ways. For instance, four-wheel drive vehicles are used to interrupt drug harvesting, haul away marijuana, patrol streets and conduct surveillance. The 1033 Program also helps with the agencies’ general equipment needs, such as file cabinets, copiers, and fax machines that they need but perhaps are unable to afford.
What does “original acquisition value” mean?
Answer: Original acquisition value refers to the amount the military services paid for the property.
Why is Hazardous Material not authorized for transfer from the DLA Disposition Services Field Activity?
Answer: LESO handles this on a case-by-case basis. Hazardous Materials require special handling, licensing, and transportation.
Last edited by allegro; 08-22-2014 at 11:06 AM.
Active Member
I remember the story of the Albuquerque homeless man that was shot and killed by several police officers.
He was white.
I agree that the Ferguson story is more than just a race issue.
There seem to be a lot of trigger happy officers out there.
Quiet Member
There also seem to be a lot of internet armchair quarterbacks out there. Perhaps we can not riot and throw Molotov cocktails at the police until all the facts are out?
I have a hard time agreeing with the demilitarization of police when the store that this asshole robbed before he got shot was looted by a bunch of violent lunatics for no reason other than to seemingly get back at the store for being robbed by said asshole.
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
When the police are throwing tear gas and shooting people with rubber bullets for literally no reason, and threatening to kill them, I'm pretty sure they know what the outcome of that is going to be. I don't agree with the violent protesting or rioting at all. Not even a little bit. I understand the frustrations, though. There are always going to be a small percentage of people who take things too far. It doesn't matter what the topic is.
Bite me
Nobody agrees with looting. But looting happens after every hurricane and this SWAT shit don't happen.
Honestly, the National Guard should have taken over control from the Ferguson PD almost immediately. Because the Ferguson PD is too white and too green.
I saw a photo of 2 Crips and a Blood joining forces to protect a store from looters.
In that Kewli interview, he says the PD bullets started FIRST, then the crowd reacted.
We aren't going to discuss race, but I'll touch on it a little, here, because I'm old:
Race riots defy logic. They're built on emotion, anger. Dr. King attempted to calm that anger in the 60s. Blacks have no such leader, now. Obama is not that leader. During the Detroit riots, stores were looted and burned, destroyed. I was confused as a child; why did they burn their own neighborhood? Why did they burn the stores they went to? Many blacks then were as confused as this child was, as confused as you are now. But emotion and anger is not based on logic. Oppression leads to a seething anger; Dr. King was on the side of calm pacifism. Malcolm X demanded change at any cost. The real answer is probably somewhere in the middle. Dunno.
But let's have some perpective, here:
Detroit, 1967:
" The result was 43 dead, 1,189 injured, over 7,200 arrests, and more than 2,000 buildings destroyed. The scale of the riot was surpassed only by the New York City draft riots, during the U.S. Civil War, and the 1992 Los Angeles riots. The riot was prominently featured in the news media, with live television coverage, extensive newspaper reporting, and extensive stories in Time and Life magazines. The Detroit Free Press won a Pulitzer Prize for its coverage."
(Wikipedia)
We also had Rodney King in 1992
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
Last edited by allegro; 08-23-2014 at 07:29 AM.
Bite me
Hey, look, check this out!!
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/mis...ded/index.html
Administrator
Ho-lee shit.
Captain Rustleboots
Yeahhhh....you can't do that. Also in regards to that psychopath cop who was pointing his automatic rifle at protesters saying he was going to kill them, I was talking to a few police friends of mine who are working down there and he's not just suspended...he's fired.
Bite me
Lol, officer gofuckyourself?
Captain Rustleboots
No, former Officer Gofuckyourself. I hear if you go to the local mcdonalds he'll ask you if you want mfuckingfries with that.
lawl
Bite me
Haaaaaaahahaha
Well, at least they're weeding out the wackos. That's really good.
Last edited by allegro; 08-22-2014 at 11:55 PM.
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