Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[m15a]

First there was the grumpy dark angry synth pop phase....1988..1990

However It would be more accurate to call Nine inch Nails between 1992-1994 a Noise act, rather than an Industrial act.

I like that comment Bowie made about Trent being a noise sculptor like an artist. The musicology on Downward Spiral and Broken too is Jackson Pollock in musical form. All over the place with layers.
This has made me realise NIN was essentially a noise act...the term seems more apt than Industrial.

The Fragile seemed less focused on Noise manipulation..i dont even think The Fragile could be defined in a genre.
But i think Downward Spiral can.

Trent dropped this all together in 2005 and went minimal.

Can you give examples of noise music acts like Broken/TDS? I haven't heard much of the genre, but what I've heard is only vaguely (or rarely) similar.

I guess don't really get the Jackson Pollock analogy either though. Maybe my frame of reference is different though.

[seasonsinthesky]

First there was the grumpy dark angry synth pop phase....1988..1990

However It would be more accurate to call Nine inch Nails between 1992-1994 a Noise act, rather than an Industrial act.

I like that comment Bowie made about Trent being a noise sculptor like an artist. The musicology on Downward Spiral and Broken too is Jackson Pollock in musical form. All over the place with layers.
This has made me realise NIN was essentially a noise act...the term seems more apt than Industrial.

The Fragile seemed less focused on Noise manipulation..i dont even think The Fragile could be defined in a genre.
But i think Downward Spiral can.

Trent dropped this all together in 2005 and went minimal.

You haven't listened to noise much. Let me know when you find the unreleased b-side that sounds anything like Pulse Demon. The buildup of white noise in "Mr. Self Destruct" and its use in the background of "Hurt" doesn't meet the criteria.

You're certainly right, though, that NIN have never played industrial. The term is "industrial rock." And it applies exactly perfectly to Broken and TDS.

I see a lot of people try to keep NIN out of the industrial rock canon (either by dropping the word "rock" or calling them something else that is inapplicable, like "noise") because it lumps NIN in with other artists these people consider 'lesser' than NIN: Ministry, KMFDM, whatever. Those people are idiots.

[Jon]

@Hazekiah those are considered EPs because remix albums are considered EPs by RIAA (and I think UK charts), which is dumb but hey. I would also consider them albums following the basic album rules

Or compilations, correct? I honestly have no idea. I don't know what they would consider something like Radiohead's TKOL RMX 1234567, which fits the criteria of a compilation. It couldn't possibly be a 2-disc maxi single.

More on NIN topic, wouldn't that technically make Futher Down The Spiral and Head Like A Hole (US) a compilation album?

[sheepdean]

Or compilations, correct? I honestly have no idea. I don't know what they would consider something like Radiohead's TKOL RMX 1234567, which fits the criteria of a compilation. It couldn't possibly be a 2-disc maxi single.

More on NIN topic, wouldn't that technically make Futher Down The Spiral and Head Like A Hole (US) a compilation album?

No, that's a maxi single!

Which is given both EP and single tags.

RIAA is dumb at time

[elevenism]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't more or less most albums about forty minutes before CDs came in and suddenly people developed a sense of "Well it can hold about eighty minutes, so we should make about eighty minutes"? That seems to have died off a lot (and in my own albeit limited experience it seems like a lot of albums from 90's and early 2000's are vastly longer than those from most other time periods).

The Slip's totally an album. In Rainbows by Radiohead is only 42 minutes and no one seems to argue about that. Ziggy Stardust is 38 minutes and is considered to be one of the all-time best albums by anyone ever. I don't really get it. Personally I kind of hate how many things are ridiculously fucking long, often unnecessarily so. I'd take a great 40 minute album where every song lands and is fantastic over something twice that length with a ton of filler or throwaway material that just blends into beige stretches of same-y songs.

i noticed this when going through my collection
there are rush albums with four songs, and a lot of the old bowie records are short too.
you are absolutely right about the rise of filler material.
i like all killer and no filler. Wham bam thank you mam.
It's part of why broken is so incredible. it's an intense "burst of shit"

[xcore]

At this point, ETS is one of the strongest reasons NIN is still somewhat alive.

remix.nin.com is another one.

[simonn]

remix.nin.com is another one.

Didn't even know it was still active, but I spy a fair amount of HM-based remixes that I'll have to acquaint myself with over the next few weeks....excellent news...

[xcore]

Didn't even know it was still active, but I spy a fair amount of HM-based remixes that I'll have to acquaint myself with over the next few weeks....excellent news...

Hesitation Marks remixes would be appreciated.

[shagg_187]

I still visit ninremixes.com from time to time. So many good mixes there!

[kel]

pino's rhythmic head bobbing makes me want to punch something.

[Ryan]

pino's rhythmic head bobbing makes me want to punch something.

Same here.

It reminds me of the looney toons vulture for some reason.

[Ryan]

lol ^


So, I think I've listened to The Social Network soundtrack all the way through 0 times and TGWTDT once. I don't think I've listened to the Gone Girl soundtrack at all.

For some reason the soundtrack stuff just hasn't appealed to me / I haven't cared to listen.

[Kulerage]

Here are mine:

The Slip is underrated
Year Zero and Pretty Hate Machine are all tied with Hesitation Marks as my least favorite NIN album (In This Twilight is amazing however)
The Fragile Right is just as good as The Fragile Left
I don't really like Gave Up and Wish.

[pinata89]

So, I think I've listened to The Social Network soundtrack all the way through 0 times and TGWTDT once. I don't think I've listened to the Gone Girl soundtrack at all.

For some reason the soundtrack stuff just hasn't appealed to me / I haven't cared to listen.

I kind of agree. I whole-heartedly try to give it a chance, and some of it is really good. But it's hard to take it as seriously as a proper NIN release.

[BRoswell]

I think I've actually listened to Trent and Atticus' score material more than Nine Inch Nails in the past couple years. Don't get me wrong, I love Nine Inch Nails, but I think they've been doing their most interesting work as of late with their scores. I've said it before, but I really think Trent should put Nine Inch Nails to rest and embrace being a film composer.

[thefragile_jake]

I think I've actually listened to Trent and Atticus' score material more than Nine Inch Nails in the past couple years. Don't get me wrong, I love Nine Inch Nails, but I think they've been doing their most interesting work as of late with their scores. I've said it before, but I really think Trent should put Nine Inch Nails to rest and embrace being a film composer.

To each their own of course, but man...I've been pretty bored with everything the duo has done soundtrack wise post-The Social Network. For some reason, that's the one that has the most going on to keep me intrigued.

I think if Trent just decides to take more interesting risks with Nine Inch Nails, he can keep it healthy.

[BRoswell]

I still like The Social Network score, but I think there's a lot more diversity on Dragon Tattoo and Gone Girl, which is probably why I listen to them more often than The Social Network.

I'm just not sure what else Trent can really do with Nine Inch Nails at this point. I've enjoyed what he's put out in recent years, but I would be perfectly fine if he never put out another Nine Inch Nails record and focused on other projects.

[WorzelG]

Does it have to be one or the other or something? I think he's getting the balance just right

[SM Rollinger]

I don't think NIN pays the bills quite like these score gigs as of late. Which is too bad.

[TheBang]

Is that true? I wouldn't think of score writing as being a particularly high-paying gig.

Edit: Sounds like TRAR could be commanding a couple hundred thousand per film.

[Krazy]

Since it's been a hot topic recently: couldn't give two shits for more The Fragile era stuff. We've got the original double album, live CD/DVD, Still, etc. etc. That well has been dried up- if there's anything left 15+ years later than chances are it wasn't good to begin with.

[BRoswell]

Since it's been a hot topic recently: couldn't give two shits for more The Fragile era stuff. We've got the original double album, live CD/DVD, Still, etc. etc. That well has been dried up- if there's anything left 15+ years later than chances are it wasn't good to begin with.

I certainly enjoyed the bonus stuff that Trent released along with the alternate instrumental versions, but none of it particularly blew my mind. I'd like to hear more, but I'm not expecting anything amazing.

[onthewall2983]

pino's rhythmic head bobbing makes me want to punch something.

Being a big Who fan I can relate. Great bassist otherwise though.

[Dr Channard]

I don't think NIN pays the bills quite like these score gigs as of late. Which is too bad.

I’ve wondered about that myself. It would be interesting to know what are the up to date sales figures for Hesitation Marks. Wiki gives almost 3 year old figures stating that “As of December 2013, the album had sold 187,000 copies.” If you use that figure and estimate conservatively at $9.00 an album it comes out to $1,683,000 in album sales. If around the album nin does 120 live shows, estimating conservatively 2,000 people per show at $40.00 a ticket, you’d come to $9,600,000. Plus there would be some additional income from other miscellaneous merchandise. Of course money comes out in album/tour production costs, venue fees, paying the band and stage crew, and so forth. How much all that amounts to I have no guess other than a lot.

It seems likely that there would still be a good living to be made from nin albums and touring, but not likely that anyone would be getting filthy rich off it at this point.

So at the end of the day, if Trent makes more money from involvement with apple and film scores, yet he still continues with nin, that’s great. It must mean that nails is still important to him and that he’s doing it because he wants to.

[TheBang]

If around the album nin does 120 live shows, estimating conservatively 2,000 people per show at $40.00 a ticket, you’d come to $9,600,000.

Are you kidding? The arenas and amphitheaters are generally around 10,000-20,000 for concert capacity, and tickets usually go for $100+ these days.

That said, we actually have a gross revenue number for one date on the European tour that you can see here:

http://www.metalsucks.net/2014/07/17...on-earn-shows/

Oh, I just found numbers for Tension:
That 32 show tour had an average gross of $464,516 per night, for a total gross of $14.4 million.
http://www.pollstarpro.com/files/cha...ricanTours.pdf

Edit: This is fun. NIN/Soundgarden grossed $339,286 per night over 27 shows, for a total gross of $9.5 million.
http://www.pollstarpro.com/files/cha...ricanTours.pdf

NIN/JA did $362,500 per night over 24 shows, for $8.7 million total.
http://www.pollstarpro.com/SpecialFe...ricanTours.pdf

Lights in the Sky did $214,815 per night over 54 shows, for a $11.6 million total.
http://www.pollstarpro.com/SpecialFe...ricanTours.pdf

Live With Teeth 2006 (Winter and Summer legs) did $188,333 per night for 60 shows, for $11.3 million total
http://www.pollstarpro.com/specialfe...00%20Tours.pdf

[Dr Channard]

Are you kidding?...

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to come off like my figures were the real thing, just conservative guesstimates, very-very conservative (I probably did way lowball some numbers there). Sorry about any confusion. But thanks for the links, that is quite interesting to see, and proves maybe there is still a little bit of locomotion left in the nin gravy train after all.

[Kulerage]

I do not like We're In This Together, Only, Letting You, Head Down and Came Back Haunted all for a specific reason. They are all fucking great songs, but do not sound like they belong on their respective albums. WITT, Only and CBH don't really fit into ANY album for that matter, and Letting You and Head Down sound a bit like Year Zero outtakes, so hearing Year Zero's sound on The Slip is distracting to me.

[buckaroo]

I do not like We're In This Together, Only, Letting You, Head Down and Came Back Haunted all for a specific reason. They are all fucking great songs, but do not sound like they belong on their respective albums. WITT, Only and CBH don't really fit into ANY album for that matter, and Letting You and Head Down sound a bit like Year Zero outtakes, so hearing Year Zero's sound on The Slip is distracting to me.

I agree about CBH. I felt that it was the most misleading single. Even though that is not one of the best tracks on HM, it "sounds" the best. Before the album was released I really felt like it was going to be a continuation of TDS in terms of overall feel. That song feels that way to me. It has a bit of that sound and structure with the sort of out of tune horn sounds, keyboard melodies and the extended looping outro. The rest of the album does not give me that feeling at all.

The rest of the examples I don't really agree.

[Kulerage]

I agree about CBH. I felt that it was the most misleading single. Even though that is not one of the best tracks on HM, it "sounds" the best. Before the album was released I really felt like it was going to be a continuation of TDS in terms of overall feel. That song feels that way to me. It has a bit of that sound and structure with the sort of out of tune horn sounds, keyboard melodies and the extended looping outro. The rest of the album does not give me that feeling at all.

The rest of the examples I don't really agree.

Your disagreement with the rest makes sense, since stuff like this is very subjective. And HM as a whole was pretty misleading.

[Dryalex12]

I feel like I'm Looking Forward is the best song on the right side, probably the most underrated song on The Fragile

Also every time I listen to Satellite, all I can think of is Trent dancing in that sideways, snake-like movement, with a disco ball up, and right before the chorus, he does a twirl and a nice clap