Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[Kyle]

I'm not sure if a guy whose been sober for over a decade is the best person to sell beer.

Is it any different than athletes promoting McDonald's?

[sheepdean]

Is it any different than athletes promoting McDonald's?

McDonald's isn't inherently going to cause a relapse in an athlete and isn't bad for you outright

[tony.parente]

I'm not sure if a guy whose been sober for over a decade is the best person to sell beer.

If Trent marketed alcohol he should make a wine and call it A Violet Fluid.
Thats more of a random comment. To keep it on track..um...


Discipline was the beginning of the end for me.

[r_z]

Sure, the script was schmaltzy, but Trent sounded honest, and that's what matters in the end.

You know, I get where you're comign from, but I won't argue over the sincerity someone put into making a commercial. It's a fucking commercial, not some piece of music you put onto your device and listen to.

I'm aware we're on a NIN board and therefore having to fight about even the tiniest doubts concerning Reznors words/actions/etc. comes with the territory. As does having people interpreting his words the way you did and not like, say, "I'm endorsing this, because it will pay a good amount, therefore I'll use my music and voice to lure in the NIN army...".

I don't know man. When I became a fan it felt like a breath of fresh air having an artist saying insightful things in interviews, while not shying away from pointing out "the truth" about music, artists and collegues. After all this time I spent with the band, the man behind it and his music though, it dawned on me how "the truth" often times was just a narrative invented to sell whatever album got released that year. I have no doubt about his desire to produce music and his drive to make something great. What became irritating though to me has been the way he's promoting his art. Some may call it reasonable and while I agree from a commercial standpoint, I find it rather disturbing from the fans-view (it's hard for me to get my point across since I'm not a native speaker, tbh).

Also, I'm beginning to doubt he has anything left to say. The TDS anniversary headfuck called in to sell HM didn't really feel sincere to me...

[r_z]

It's a fucking commercial, not some piece of music you put onto your device and listen to.

Not that I wouldn't be suprised if some of you crazies would actually go to great lengths to do such a thing with the Beats commercial.

[m15a]

I don't know man. When I became a fan it felt like a breath of fresh air having an artist saying insightful things in interviews, while not shying away from pointing out "the truth" about music, artists and collegues. After all this time I spent with the band, the man behind it and his music though, it dawned on me how "the truth" often times was just a narrative invented to sell whatever album got released that year. I have no doubt about his desire to produce music and his drive to make something great. What became irritating though to me has been the way he's promoting his art. Some may call it reasonable and while I agree from a commercial standpoint, I find it rather disturbing from the fans-view (it's hard for me to get my point across since I'm not a native speaker, tbh).

Can you give some examples of irritating ways he's promoting his art? Preferably with links/quotes.

From what you're saying and other critical things posted on here, I wonder if people are judging Trent more harshly because they at some point thought so highly of him. Like, you said that he felt "like a breath of fresh air" and then you realized he was actually pretty regular and you sort of resent that he "made" you think he was different.

I dunno . . . all these discussions about whether Trent is a hypocrit(e) bother me not because think Trent can do no wrong but because . . who cares? To me, it seems like all those discussions are about celebrity and image. I don't care whether Trent is a good celebrity. I'm not going to claim I'm immune to his celebrity status or whatever. I think it's pretty cool when he shares some of my views but I hope part of me remembers he's just some guy that makes music I really like.

I feel like Trent's image is more a result of the media and the fans than anything he actually says anyway. Like, a lot of the "promises" Trent supposedly makes are just random statements he made that have been repeated so often with a certain interpretation attached that they've been taken as truth. That's why I ask people to give links to articles if they can - I know it's a hassle, but if you're going to call someone a liar, you should probably be prepared to back that up with proof.

[WorzelG]

It was quite entertaining when Trent did the Call of Duty theme (which i really liked) and had spent so much time slagging off big corporations and how they ruin games etc but then had some backtracking to do as in the below
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/...y-black-ops-2/

I thought he did it because he was doing the new NIN album and wanted to bring some easy money in but he can't say that of course!

[ophelia_]

Can you give some examples of irritating ways he's promoting his art? Preferably with links/quotes.

Well, he released Seed 8 exclusively for Beats Music - http://www.ninwiki.com/Remix_2014_EP

Trent spoke highly about Spotify when it first came out and he wasn't involved in that process at all, besides being a user of it's service, so it makes sense to me that he would get involved with something similar if he could. He obviously liked the product, and Beats seems to have evolved from Spotify.

Re: his involvement in beats, I doubt he really had as much influence as they would like us to believe he did. But that said, it looks great to me, even without Trents endorsement and I'll definitely check it out when it becomes available in Aus.

[MrSlfDstruct]

I was listening to Down In It, and I forgot how awkward it is to listen to that with someone else in the car when the fucking nursery rhyme starts playing.

[Ryan]

kindalikeacloudiwasupwayupintheskyandiwasfeelingso mefeelingsyouwouldn'tbelievesometimesidon'tbelieve inmyselfandidecidediwasnevercomingdownjustthenatin ylittledotcaughtmyeyeanditwasjustabouttoosmalltose ebutiwatcheditwaytoolongitwaspullingmedowniwasupab oveitnowimdowninitsowhatwhatdoesitmatternowiwasswi mminginthehatenowicrawlonthegroundandeverythingine verlikedaboutyouiskindaseepingintomeitrytolaughabo utitnowbutisn'titfunnyhoweverythingworksoutiguesst hejoke'sonmeshesaidiwasupaboveitnowi'mdownin itiusedtohavesomethinginsidenowjusthisholeit'sopen wideiusedtowantitalliusedtobesomebodyi'llcrossmyhe artandhopetodaybuttheneedlesalreadyinmyeyeandallth eworld'sweightisonmybackandidon'tevenknowwhywhatiu sedtothinkwasmeisjustafadingmemoryilookedhimrighti ntheeyeandsaidgoodbyeRAINRAINGOAWAYCOEAGAINSOMEOTH ERDAYRAINRAINGOAWAYCOMEAGAINSOMEOTHERDAY

;'(

[Halo Infinity]

I'm not sure if a guy whose been sober for over a decade is the best person to sell beer.

Flippant post is flippant: *The Only Time starts playing.* Trent Reznor: There's stuff that you really should or shouldn't do. Drinking responsibly is one of them. Do so, so that this won't be the only time you really feel alive.

[howdidislipinto]

I don't see a difference between Trent using NIN-related material to promote Beats than Trent using NIN-related material (websites, mailing lists) to promote HTDA/the TRAR scores. He's creatively involved in all of them, and anytime we paid for any of them corporations made money. Why does one seem acceptable and not the other? As long as TR is creatively involved, none of them seem skeevy to me.

That time NIN advertised Delta on TV earlier this year was kinda gross though.

[treyalmanza]

I think that NIN sounded the best with Jerome Dillon on drums. Sorry.

[ethan829]

I think that NIN sounded the best with Jerome Dillon on drums. Sorry.

Josh Freese 4 lyfe <3

[Charmingly Miserable]

Josh Freese 4 lyfe <3

I honestly think that Josh lives about a mike from me.

Josh is great (seeing him play the Wretched was a holy fuck moment for me), but I have such a girl crush on Ilan, so.....

[Halo Infinity]

I really am bad at this thread, but this opinion sort of feels controversial. I will actually admit that it's sometimes much better to introduce potentially new Nine Inch Nails fans to Pretty Hate Machine, With Teeth, Hesitation Marks, or even The Fragile despite how long it is. Whether I like it or not... sometimes it didn't seem like a good idea to have some people jump right into Broken and The Downward Spiral depending on their tastes. As a matter of fact, even Pretty Hate Machine sometimes wasn't a good choice when it came to introducing NIN to other people that were interested in listening to his albums for the very first time. Even And All That Could Have Been (Still) seemed to be among the better choices, depending on who I was sharing NIN's music with.

[ethan829]

I really am bad at this thread, but this opinion sort of feels controversial. I will actually admit that it's sometimes much better to introduce potentially new Nine Inch Nails fans to Pretty Hate Machine, With Teeth, Hesitation Marks, or even The Fragile despite how long it is. Whether I like it or not... sometimes it didn't seem like a good idea to have some people jump right into Broken and The Downward Spiral depending on their tastes. As a matter of fact, even Pretty Hate Machine sometimes wasn't a good choice when it came to introducing NIN to other people that were interested in listening to his albums for the very first time. Even And All That Could Have Been (Still) seemed to be among the better choices, depending on who I was sharing NIN's music with.

I think Hesitation Marks is probably the most "accessible" NIN album. There are plenty of reasonably catchy, radio-friendly, drumbeat-focused songs (I don't mean that as a criticism, I love HM) that are easy to get into without delving into the complexities of TDS.

[Halo Infinity]

I doubt that I'm alone here, and perhaps this isn't as controversial as I think it is, but doesn't Year Zero still put up a really good fight against Hesitation Marks?

I can admit that I can understand other fans saying that it's the best album since The Fragile, but even if that were so, Year Zero is pretty close, or even just as good depending on which songs you listen to, along with your overall preferences. (But of course, that's also just me.) That question still occurred to me yet again as I listened to Year Zero right after listening to Hesitation Marks.

[jessamineny]

Year Zero is my second-favorite NIN album, only behind The Fragile.

[implanted_microchip]

Year Zero as an album and as an ARG both is a master-piece level thing, TR seems to be and has every right to be incredibly proud of that album, it completely and totally switched gears for NIN way beyond anything I'd expect. He went from songs like All the Love In the World and You Know What You Are? to songs like Me, I'm Not, The Great Destroyer, In This Twilight, etc. It's just a really phenomenal album and whenever I listen to it I'm always impressed at how much you can tell he didn't hold anything back; he said over and over how With Teeth was kept as minimal as possible, but to me NIN is at its best when Trent is just doing whatever he really feels like and gives himself a broad canvas to work with, and Year Zero really captures that sense of a grand scale that things like The Fragile have.

I do think I prefer HM more overall, but really I'd say they nearly tie in a lot of aspects, but they're so different and go for completely different things and shoot into wildly separate directions from each other, so to compare them is really, really hard.

I'd go as far as to say that to try and compare YZ to any other NIN album is a difficult and almost pointless thing to do; it does things no one ever thought NIN would, it goes into territories Trent had never seemed interested in exploring, it has a sound and feel and lyrical theme that is just from another planet compared to the rest of NIN before and since. I think it's an amazing oddity amongst the discography and is over-looked by most fans but really deserves a lot more love and appreciation than it got, and I think that's simply because it appeals to a different crowd than a lot of NIN fans; if you love NIN for the personal, introspective quality of it, let's face it, it's not for you.

[Charmingly Miserable]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: YZ is my least favorite album. Individually, the songs are great. But collectively, I just can't do the whole album.

[Ryan]

I will like Year Zero more when Trent finally plays My Violent Heart and Zero-Sum live.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

YZ still feels (musically) like an album ahead of its time to me, and I wonder how we'll look back on it in 2022. NIN fans may be all too familiar with it by then, but if music goes in a different direction it could seem dated or just really unique.

[Charmingly Miserable]

Survivalism is still so much fun to see live. In my top 10 NIN live songs. Plus, seeing Sharlotte giving attitude on that song at ACL made it even better.

[botley]

Year Zero as an album and as an ARG both is a master-piece level thing, TR seems to be and has every right to be incredibly proud of that album, it completely and totally switched gears for NIN way beyond anything I'd expect.

I agree that it was a success in that it confounded many people's expectations, and warped the shape of what this band could do in terms of its identity. To someone that paid attention to nin.com in 2004, however, it wasn't out of left field at all. This sci-fi bend in the music was absolutely part of TR's master plan for the band, hatched shortly after he got sober. It was a natural extension onwards from the quasi-mysticism of newfound self empowerment expressed in the lyrics of the songs from With Teeth and its outtakes.

He went from songs like All the Love In the World and You Know What You Are? to songs like Me, I'm Not, The Great Destroyer, In This Twilight, etc. It's just a really phenomenal album and whenever I listen to it I'm always impressed at how much you can tell he didn't hold anything back; he said over and over how With Teeth was kept as minimal as possible, but to me NIN is at its best when Trent is just doing whatever he really feels like and gives himself a broad canvas to work with, and Year Zero really captures that sense of a grand scale that things like The Fragile have.

Ingeniously, he accomplished this via songs that also sat well atop the groundwork laid by With Teeth's minimal grooves, songs like BOTE & Survivalism; they absolutely fit the WT approach of arrangements for a small-sized band with a bed of noise underneath. It's the same minimal groove approach for much of the rest of the album, too, just done with more non-rock sounding textures like software synth patches, real horns, melodic percussion, and VST programming. That was how everything started to be arranged with the four-man lineups in 2009 & 2014 — like the WT band all learned how to play real synths, instead of just hitting things with pedals plugged in at 11.

I'd go as far as to say that to try and compare YZ to any other NIN album is a difficult and almost pointless thing to do; it does things no one ever thought NIN would, it goes into territories Trent had never seemed interested in exploring, it has a sound and feel and lyrical theme that is just from another planet compared to the rest of NIN before and since. I think it's an amazing oddity amongst the discography and is over-looked by most fans but really deserves a lot more love and appreciation than it got, and I think that's simply because it appeals to a different crowd than a lot of NIN fans; if you love NIN for the personal, introspective quality of it, let's face it, it's not for you.

Disagree with this "vast departure" narrative given what I posted above, but that's just my assessment of how TR writes music. I do agree that the departure in style on the lyrics turns some people off.

[implanted_microchip]

@botley : you definitely make a lot of good points and from a technical side you're probably right (I'm not going to pretend I fully know everything on this subject in the least, at least half the people on here are more qualified to speak about that than me). But thematically and just sound-wise it feels radically different, even when I've introduced NIN to people, that's the album that shocks them the most. It just has this very different, very unique and out of this world sound to it compared to the rest of NIN, I mean a lot of aspects of it have certainly influenced later albums, but aside from Satellite I can't name any song since YZ that sounds like YZ. There's a few HTDA songs that remind me of it lyrically and sound-wise, but then again that's not NIN (seriously when I first heard Speaking in Tongues and heard the line "All my arms with stretch across the sky" I was so convinced we were going to get YZ 2, it wasn't even funny; BBB even feels like an extension of songs like Survivalism lyrically).

The way it was made and the sounds used make it stand distinctly enough apart from the rest to me that I can't personally say it sounds like With Teeth, which as a whole is far more the "NIN as a rock band" mindset than almost any other album (I'd probably say more than any other period, really; The Slip would be second in line and that has Corona Radiata). Rather than big guitars and pounding drums and minimal-sounding production, most of YZ sounds big and is full of noise and synths and has that industrial vibe but channeled into a lot of electronic sound, and I think it's really unique because of that. It feels like an awesome experiment to me where Trent decided to go all out in one direction and see how far he could make it (I mean c'mon, The Great Destroyer breakdown? I don't know what to compare that to from NIN).

I definitely see your points though and it makes more since (also I wasn't around nin.com in '04, so I have no idea on that subject), but I still feel like it's radically separate from the albums before it and even then separate from the albums since. There aren't any Ghosts tracks or The Slip tracks that remind me of it at all (I know Letting You is basically another YZ story, but sound-wise it's worlds apart).

[botley]

The whole psychodrama of YZ is a play on the word Presence. Where is the music present among this tuned noise? Where is the narrator present during each song in this world we've established? Where is the humanity present in this bleak yet very possible future scenario? Where is our conscience present among it — are we passive participators or active contributors? In only a few other places among the rest of the NIN catalogue does TR pose those questions — mostly on With Teeth (there is no You there is only Me, right where It belongs).

[Charmingly Miserable]

Man, we got In This Twilight/Zero Sum (outro) for the show closer in 08 or so in the US.
Did you guys not get that in Australia?
I REALLY don't like hurt as the last song...it's so fucking depressing you know? I was thrilled to get In This Twilight.

Agree. ITT > Hurt for the last song.

[timdotexe]

Agree. ITT > Hurt for the last song.

I wouldn't be upset if i went to show where Hurt wasn't played, even though i love it.

I hope they play Terrible Lie forever though, i never tire of hearing that live

[Halo Infinity]

Around 8 months later after Hesitation Marks, and I still didn't find Everything that surprising at all, even if I was just a little bit surprised, which also had ironically surprised me as I was already exposed to some Option 30 and Slam Bamboo. I never really got the reaction from it, and it even sounds like something that could've easily fit into With Teeth.

Hesitation Marks seriously should have been scrapped and never talked about. It's really, really bad - same stupid drum machine beginning in every damned song.

And while I'm late to this, at least it's true to this thread as it should. However, this really surprised me as I thought that just about any With Teeth lover would've ate it up. This really is a first to me, along with some of your opinions of With Teeth. (Which I actually like, as I've sometimes seen With Teeth as a bit of an underdog of the post-Fragile part of the discography. NIN fans generally seem to appreciate it a lot more than they did back in 2005-2007 as well.)

-Edit-

This one would probably take the cake.

I actually wouldn't mind a happy Nine Inch Nails album with some relaxed vibes here or there. I also think that heavy and happy can also work really well too.