Game of Thrones - Spoilers

[howdidislipinto]

How didn't the show depict what it really was? In my opinion they managed to portray a rape, and blatantly so. Anything more obvious and in your face would have just been out of character - considering who we're dealing with and their history. This was probably one of my biggest WTF scenes so far in the show.

Sorry, I was saying the show DID depict it as what it was, and I was glad it did so. As opposed to scenes in books and movies where a female is coerced/forced but then the lines blur when she's shown to "enjoy" it. Some people are using the books to say, "It wasn't rape, it was just slightly icky!" (Not in this specific case, but others.) I'd rather see rape be depicted as what it is, like it was in this episode, than another disturbing "debatable" scene where people have room to deny/delude themselves on what really happened.

[hobochic]

Sorry, I was saying the show DID depict it as what it was, and I was glad it did so. As opposed to scenes in books and movies where a female is coerced/forced but then the lines blur when she's shown to "enjoy" it. Some people are using the books to say, "It wasn't rape, it was just slightly icky!" (Not in this specific case, but others.) I'd rather see rape be depicted as what it is, like it was in this episode, than another disturbing "debatable" scene where people have room to deny/delude themselves on what really happened.

Gotcha, I read your post from the other angle.

[littlemonkey613]

Sorry, I was saying the show DID depict it as what it was, and I was glad it did so. As opposed to scenes in books and movies where a female is coerced/forced but then the lines blur when she's shown to "enjoy" it. Some people are using the books to say, "It wasn't rape, it was just slightly icky!" (Not in this specific case, but others.) I'd rather see rape be depicted as what it is, like it was in this episode, than another disturbing "debatable" scene where people have room to deny/delude themselves on what really happened.

I would rather there actually be a debate about how pressuring someone even if they "consent later" is 100% wrong b/c that is something that happens all the time also and we need to deal with it as a society. There are really important distinctions between the sexual dynamics between Cersei and the people in her life. For instance, what Jaime did to her on the show was what Robert did to her their entire marriage. Jaime would never do to Cersei what he did in the scene (though he is not above pressuring her until he turns her on and she gets aggressive). The distinction is not one of morally in terms of our view of Jaime, but how the situation effects Cersei and her relationship with Jaime compared to other men in her life.

Also youll be sad to find that there is a debate happening about whether it was rape on the show anyways. O___O mind blowing right?

Anyways its not so much that I am being a book purist in terms of plot and action as wanting the nature of the main characters to be preserved at least. I would rather have them just took the scene out and inserted one completely different that was in character. Jaime's actions and lines were the most out of character lazy shit shit ever and its less interesting. They aren't just changing things they are making them simpler and dumber for an HBO audience, and they have a horrible habit of consistently dumbing down female characterizations and gender politics more than anything. I should have known when they made Cersei all like "fuck uu jaimeee for losing a hand and being tortured omg u suck" "babe what" in their reunion scene.

The scene didnt depict what actuallyhappened, it just depicted something that more audience members would call rape, while still igniting the debate you want it to avoid. Im not saying the difference between the book and show scene is that in the book scene Jaime's actions are justifiable. Im saying the differences have a great bearing on the characterizations. I have no problem calling book Jaime a rapist by my standards (I know a lot of book fans disagree but fuck people who condone sexual pressure). Im just really sad about what they are doing with characterization b/c its just not as good.

But LOL actually maybe I am jumping the gun and that scene wont even change the arcs that much since Alex Graves and the actor that plays Jaime don't even think they made a rape scene -_______________-

[ophelia_]

Personally I didn't even think of that as a rape scene until everyone on the interwebs got their knickers in a knot about it after.

Can't help but feel that it would have been much more aggressive/violent if it was intended to come across as rape.

[orestes]

The fact that people aren't calling Jaimie's actions on the show as rape is troubling and speaks loudly of a greater misunderstanding of sexual assault and violence in society. How much more aggressive did Jaimie's actions need to be? Did he need to physically assault Cersei before dragging and pinning her down to the floor so viewers could easily call out his actions as rape?

Like I said earlier, the scene was awkward enough in the books, what with them having sex next to Joffrey's corpse, but I'm just baffled as to why they altered it from the book. All this character building over the past season has gone to shit for both characters. I mean, Jaimie lost a fucking hand because he was trying to defend Brienne's honor, not to mention being witness to Aerys II Targaryen's numerous rapes of Rhaella as a Kingsguard. Are we supposed to sympathize with Cersei now--what a lazy trope the writers used--or does the fact that Cersei is a spiteful bitch negate such feelings? I have a feeling that this will be just glossed over next week, with no side effects for either character.

sidenote: can we stop with the Suffering Olympics? Yes, there's lot of bad stuff that happens in this world, often for no justifiable reason, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't take offense or start quantifying which acts are more horrendous than others.

[Conan The Barbarian]

I feel like this page took a tumblr turn.

[theimage13]

Personally I didn't even think of that as a rape scene until everyone on the interwebs got their knickers in a knot about it after.

Can't help but feel that it would have been much more aggressive/violent if it was intended to come across as rape.

Yes, because clearly non-consensual sex is only actually rape if there's a gun involved....

He physically forced her and used his strength to overcome her...if that's not the definition of violence (and, tossing sex into the mix, rape), then what is?

[playwithfire]

She said no.

[Fixer808]

What a bastard...

[howdidislipinto]

Like I said earlier, the scene was awkward enough in the books, what with them having sex next to Joffrey's corpse, but I'm just baffled as to why they altered it from the book. All this character building over the past season has gone to shit for both characters. I mean, Jaimie lost a fucking hand because he was trying to defend Brienne's honor, not to mention being witness to Aerys II Targaryen's numerous rapes of Rhaella as a Kingsguard. Are we supposed to sympathize with Cersei now--what a lazy trope the writers used--or does the fact that Cersei is a spiteful bitch negate such feelings? I have a feeling that this will be just glossed over next week, with no side effects for either character.

I agree with your other points, I just want to say that I think this is exactly why the scene works. Rapists aren't cartoon villains. They're normal people. I don't think it goes against the character they've established for Jaime to do this. I think it's scarily spot-on and very close to real life. Jaime could've been a saint till now and a saint from now on and I still don't think the scene would have been out of character.

As for Cersei, honestly, I don't think they did it to make her sympathetic... or at least I hope fucking not, because ugh.

[Space Suicide]

LOL. Love it.

[slave2thewage]

WTF did I just watch?

I screeched when Tommen said "Ser Pounce"? Maybe we'll get a beet ban.

[orestes]

Holy shit, that ending! I think we might have seen glimpses of Winds of Winter tonight.

[slave2thewage]

People are running around calling Margaery a "rapist" now. Fucking SJWs.

[orestes]

Just picking up a lesson or two from Lady Olenna. Me thinks Tommen got his first case of blue balls tonight.

Meereen: I'm glad they fleshed out the conquest because there was a big jump in time in the books that left much unexplained.

[slave2thewage]

You think they'd have known better than to have a reprise of THAT scene in Meereen.

[orestes]

Reply under spoiler tag- which scene?

[slave2thewage]

Spoiler: Dany as White Savior

[Baphomette]

I can't... My brain... WHAT

Spoiler: Did anyone else think Fortress of Solitude?

[slave2thewage]

I was thinking more Spoiler: Minas Morgul in the frozen wastes.

Edit: HBO Viewer's Guide has thrown light on the ending - Spoiler: NIGHT'S KING, AAAAGH.

[littlemonkey613]

God I love littlefinger

[thelastdisciple]

Finally some Spoiler: White Walker scenes, so cool....bring it!

[ambergris]

I've pretty much convinced myself that last week's episode was the worst GoT episode so far. That sort-of rape scene, that Gilly-to-Moletown scene, those last 5 minutes of Daenerys that might as well have been left out... Yesterday's episode was almost there to undo the damage that had been done, no mention of the rape by Cersei (Maybe we should assume that their sex always was this way), Sam now thinking about bringing Gilly back, and Daenerys at the beginning of the episode, and not as some kind of obligatory-showdown-at-the-end-of-the-episode. I assume there are lots of book 4/5 stories already underway? The Margaery/Tommen scene was REALLY good I thought, the final scene as well. By the way, the whole assassination of Joffrey plan, that must have been forged when Littlefinger negotiated the Tyrell/Lannister alliance before the Battle at the Blackwater Bay? Did they divide the kingdom between Tyrell-South and Littlefinger-North? I mean, Margaery wants to be "THE queen" and Littlefinger wants "everything". Everything about this episode made so much sense.

[Canuckle]

Still too many story-lines going on at once to make these episodes feel cohesive... the directors are doing the best they can at trying to keep it all in but they may have been faced with an impossible task.

Getting one scene a week really degrades some of the urgency or emotion in these story arcs.

All in all, this week made up for what felt like a very filler previous episode. Also, I'm on board the confusion train with the Jamie/Cersi relationship.

[Space Suicide]

Blu-Ray Season 3 LE Lannister slipcase bitch!

[orestes]

So I wonder if Craster knew he was creating new recruits for the Great Other with each male birth? *hypothetical question*

Also, fuck you, Karl!

[littlemonkey613]

Also, I'm on board the confusion train with the Jamie/Cersi relationship.

They really fucked it up. I have no idea what they are going for.

[Conan The Barbarian]

Ill tell you what, I am kinda glad that the walkers dont eat the children.

[orestes]

Episode titles for the remainder of the season:

4.5- First of His Name
4.6- The Laws of Gods and Men
4.7- Mockingbird
4.8- The Mountain and the Viper
4.9- The Watchers on the Wall
4.10- The Children

[gorast]

Given the end of last episode, I'm very scared about that last title.