Game of Thrones - Spoilers

[orestes]

Okay, this isn't bad.

[thevoid99]

Emilia's reggae song is a hoot. I love it.

[littlemonkey613]

I think it's too early to condemn the scene, it really depends on whether Sansa has evolved to a point where the her treatment actually has consequences for her enemies. I hope that's going to be the case within this season. Only if it doesn't, then the scene was the kind of gratuious sexual violence of which it is being accused.
Feminist critiques are, in this case, a bit beside the point. I guess one can have two opinions: Does one watch the show because it is such a gritty, cold reflection of medieval times (a bit of an adult fairy tale), or because one regards it as a parallel to our present time? In the former case, a feminist critique is ahistorical, there simply was no feminist thinking in the medieval age. In the latter case, one could complain about the scene though, for the reasons already mentioned.

I simply think most on this board are over simplifying the issue. It is not about whether rape is portrayed but how it is portrayed in your universe.

We live within this context . Therefore rape and sexual assault within fiction should be treated with extra care, more than the other forms of violence that are depicted.

The show has consistently refused to explore the issue of how widespread rape actually is within it's universe, only deciding to keep in shock value scenes, or writing and filming a rape scene without even realizing what they are doing. ( I still can't believe).

In Sansa's case it is obvious to me it will effect her character and become a primary motivation for her, but like I said her motives were already in line and will remain consistent, therefore this scene was more about the development of Theon and Ramsay. It is insulting because she is the lead character of the 3 and there's something nasty to me about making that kind of change to a character's story.

So they refuse to explore how sexual violence effects the psychology of many of the big female players (Cersei, Dany etc.) but they absolutely have to keep this plot point that happened to another character.

If the show were invested even an ounce in depicting the actual realism of this hypothetical universe they would explore what years of rape did to Cersei, they would have explored Dany's physical/psychological trauma from "having sex" with Drogo every night regardless of what she wanted, they would have not made Shae fall in love with Tyrion and instead explored the actual risks associated with being a prostitute and how dangerous her situation was while also exploring how Tyrion is delusional and completely objectified her as a body while sometimes deluding himself into thinking he gave a rat's ass about her, and more importantly they would deal with the issue with the nuance it deserves with an understanding that seems more educated on the subject than a douche bag frat boy (a main core of the audience and so you see my problem).

They don't know shit about it and they don't give a fuck. I find arguments about them trying to depict things realistically silly as fuck tbh.

The outrage does not stem just from that scene but of a continual lack of care when it comes to something so important, and ironically as they would argue, integral to the story they are telling.

Im also very frustrated because a better story could have easily been told. They could have had Sansa slowly start to realize what Ramsay was doing to other women and therefore approached the issue of sexual assault in a way they refuse to (through actual reflection and analyses of a context) I believe the audience is in dire need of this. The story would have easily panned out they way they wanted and it would have been less insulting to Sansa's arc. But no they had to have that scene. There was no way they weren't going to do it. Because they are D and D and when it comes to this they are Dumb and Dumber. It was honestly just what I expected from them.

[Harry Seaward]

Maybe in the universe they live in, rape isn't as emotionally damaging to a person as it is in present day American colleges.

Also, I don't see any problem with using a character's rape scene to further the story and evolution of two separate male characters.

[Baphomette]

They could have had Sansa slowly start to realize what Ramsay was doing to other women and therefore approached the issue of sexual assault in a way they refuse to (through actual reflection and analyses of a context) I believe the audience is in dire need of this. The story would have easily panned out they way they wanted and it would have been less insulting to Sansa's arc. But no they had to have that scene. There was no way they weren't going to do it. Because they are D and D and when it comes to this they are Dumb and Dumber. It was honestly just what I expected from them.

10 hours per season. XXX number of characters and storylines. What you're proposing (Sansa slowly realizing) is unrealistic for this particular show.

[telee.kom]

We live within this context .

This 1 in 5 number has been debunked so many times I'm in awe that people still cite this. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...ent-30-percent

[Jinsai]

and there go the possibilities for a "Theon redemption arc" in the tv show...

They could have had Sansa slowly start to realize what Ramsay was doing to other women and therefore approached the issue of sexual assault in a way they refuse to (through actual reflection and analyses of a context) I believe the audience is in dire need of this.

What I don't understand is why it's ok if it happens to "other women" but not Sansa.

[Baphomette]

I loved this episode.

[Nyx]

and there go the possibilities for a "Theon redemption arc" in the tv show...



What I don't understand is why it's ok if it happens to "other women" but not Sansa.

I think it's mostly because a big deal has been made out of keeping her virginal throughout the seasons (she kept being rescued from rape and Tyrion didn't even attempt it). I believe people see her, on some irrational level, as "ruined" now, their fantasy of her remaining a virgin until she gives herself to some beautiful kind prince has been shattered. While I think that's fucked up on an entirely different level, I can't think of any other explanation. I thought Dany/Drogo thing was much more disturbing and disgusting since he rapes her until she gets Stockholm syndrome and then all of a sudden we're supposed to buy it as some big love story (and people generally did). Now THAT is sick.

As far as this episode goes....I hope it doesn't mean we'll be losing Cersei :/

[koz-ivan]

Okay, this isn't bad.

that was genius. really well done.

---

last night's episode was pretty good, Ghost can make any episode better.

I'm not sure I really understand the lancel / littlefinger / high septon / lady olena connection(s), I had assumed lancel confessed all his sins well in advance of this episode, alas that didn't seem to be the case.

Dorne is still a mess. I can only imagine that writer's meeting, "well bron sings and there's boobs" "and that's all?" "yeah" "brilliant!"

[slave2thewage]

TV!Myrcella needs a good slap.

RIP any chance of "fat pink mast".

I'm very worried for Shireen.

[orestes]

Bookmarking this thread in anticipation of a scene coming up for Cersei.

[Baphomette]

I'm not sure I really understand the lancel / littlefinger / high septon / lady olena connection(s), I had assumed lancel confessed all his sins well in advance of this episode, alas that didn't seem to be the case.

Cersei and Lancel thought they were the only ones who knew about their affair (and the murder of Robert). They didn't have a clue Littlefinger was aware of both because he kept his mouth shut 'til last night when he dropped the info in Olenna's lap. And I think Lancel had already confessed but no action could be taken against Cersei until a non-sparrow made an accusation. Or something like that.

[ambergris]

I'm still not sure which "young boy" Littlefinger was speaking of (Age-wise only Robin Arryn makes sense? But why... Though, I guess it could also mean Tommen.). However, nice to see the conspiracy to kill Joffrey spelled out so clearly. I wonder if it had already been planned when Littlefinger arranged the Joffrey/Margaery marriage. (Apparently, Littlefinger likes to arrange marriages for sadists and then arrange for their deaths later.)
Dorne is still a total mess. It would have been more consequential to let Bronn die, even if audiences love him. Now, the poisoning was just a pretext for showing some boobs. I understand they needed to find a reason for Jaime to leave the capital while Cersei's plans collapse, but maybe a ...little... more finesse was needed. But at least the three final ingredients to the season's finale have been added (Will Shireen be sacrified? What will King's Landing look like with the High Sparrow on top? What happens now that Tyrion and Daenerys have met?)
Edit: I've long though that the final confrontation between Fire and Ice will become a sort of apocalyptic event with the Gods choosing their champions. In this regard, the New Gods were always very passive. It was about time they chose their champion. But who DID build that old altar?

[Baphomette]

I'm still not sure which "young boy" Littlefinger was speaking of

He was talking about Oliver (the whore) and Lancel.

Now, the poisoning was just a pretext for showing some boobs.

It was SO much more than that! Tyene was in control the entire time, used her sexuality as a weapon (Nym does that in the books) and brought Bronn to his knees. Now, he's indebted to her for saving his life. I absolutely LOVED that scene.

[Sallos]

Maybe in the universe they live in, rape isn't as emotionally damaging to a person as it is in present day American colleges.

Also, I don't see any problem with using a character's rape scene to further the story and evolution of two separate male characters.

in GoT universe is common practice, in US colleges some people wish it were.

[Archive_Reports]

http://tafkarfanfic.tumblr.com/post/...-a-statistical

[telee.kom]

Why are you guys trying to apply modern logic to a story from "medieval" times? That's like watching a series about Thirty Years' War and say it is problematic, because there are too few women commanders. You are wishing that the story would be kinder to women, I get it, but that's not the world you are watching. There's nothing problematic about it, it is a fictional story, these things did not happened, but it is a universe where certain rules apply. One of these rules is, it is a violent and cruel world. And if you don't like it, why the fuck are you watching it and complaining about it?

[Sallos]

Why are you guys trying to apply modern logic to a story from "medieval" times? That's like watching a series about Thirty Years' War and say it is problematic, because there are too few women commanders. You are wishing that the story would be kinder to women, I get it, but that's not the world you are watching. There's nothing problematic about it, it is a fictional story, these things did not happened, but it is a universe where certain rules apply. One of these rules is, it is a violent and cruel world. And if you don't like it, why the fuck are you watching it and complaining about it?

Complaining is all they have left. Like there were people signing petitions to bring back Ned Stark, thats how delusional it gets. I also had a friend that said he was going to stop watching it (he still does) after Oberyn died because all his favorites characters were dying.

Speaking of rape, Beecher from OZ turned out to be a pretty bad ass character, one could actually say that his abuse payed off. Wonder if there was any controversy back then....

Also one thing this show has some terrific titties casting, i mean i have yet to see a pair of titties that dissapoint me, being a tits man also helps i guess, and they're all natural as far as i can tell.

[koz-ivan]

Cersei and Lancel thought they were the only ones who knew about their affair (and the murder of Robert). They didn't have a clue Littlefinger was aware of both because he kept his mouth shut 'til last night when he dropped the info in Olenna's lap. And I think Lancel had already confessed but no action could be taken against Cersei until a non-sparrow made an accusation. Or something like that.

perhaps lancel confessed his sins early on, and was then somehow prompted to confess Cersei's sins by Littlefinger & Olena, or even perhaps the High Sparrow was playing a very long game with her knowing all along that they had the goods on her, that Cersei managed to implicate others first was a bonus.

either way, this is a scene that doesn't really benefit from the show's condensing things. I'd of liked to have seen the littlefinger / olena / lancel conversation play out.

[Baphomette]

Spoiler: The Battle at Hardhome is the most amazing thing I've seen on TV in, like, EVER.

[blackholesun]

That was fucking amazing. Absolutely wonderful television...

[Jinsai]

that was the best episode of a television thing I've ever seen.

[ltrandazzo]

Benioff refers to the head white walker as The Night King in the episode recap, so that confirms that.

[kdrcraig]

Good god that was awesome. Tyrion and Dany together was great, hopefully we get some more of them before the end of the season. Hardhome was incredible and completely unexpected. I'll be watching that episode again tonight after work.

[ambergris]

Obviously a fantastic episode, though I still wonder whether the undead are able to cross water. I mean, in terms of the big picture, if only Westeros is lost to the zombies, the world still moves on. I wondered if there's going to be a scene that shows how the undead "lords" are able to freeze water to walk on it.
Somehow, I think that there's not going to be that one evil cliffhanger of the books which has been spoiled to me.
I expected Arya's action would be this episode's showdown.

[Sallos]

Obviously a fantastic episode, though I still wonder whether the undead are able to cross water. I mean, in terms of the big picture, if only Westeros is lost to the zombies, the world still moves on. I wondered if there's going to be a scene that shows how the undead "lords" are able to freeze water to walk on it.
Somehow, I think that there's not going to be that one evil cliffhanger of the books which has been spoiled to me.
I expected Arya's action would be this episode's showdown.

If they can ride horses im pretty sure they can also sail boats.

Great episode. That White Walker "king" is seriously bad ass. Its good to see yet another decent "large" scale fighting scene, after the wildlings attack on the wall.

[Jinsai]

this ad would have already been incredibly weird even if it didn't feature Tormund Giantsbane, but I guess it makes it weirder.

[marodi]

I don't have HBO so I cannot watch tonight's episode but the part of the Internet that's not broken (yet) is telling me that Stannis is being a bad bad boy...

[Jinsai]

WHAT THE FUCK!? That burning scene was awful...