Likes: 
Faceplams: It's incorrect to use them interchangeably, but it's not exactly weird, seeing as the latter almost always involves the formerOriginally Posted by DigitalChaos
Active Member
It's incorrect to use them interchangeably, but it's not exactly weird, seeing as the latter almost always involves the former
Hairy Member
So...no more heresy or ruiner?
Active Member
If I was Trent and had a newfound faith in the Christian god, I'd remove Terrible Lie from setlists before Ruiner.
And since that's still there....
Bite me
As has been mentioned in this thread, there is an organized religion "God" (not just Christian) who is the Hairy Thunderer in whose image we have allegedly been made.
And then there are a lot of other definitions or ideas of "God," all of which are valid and entirely personal without the need to attempt to describe to anyone, including simply "love" or "a feeling of a higher power" or a "universal collective" or simply "nature."
The God that Reznor bitches about in lyrics is obviously the God from organized religion with all the power (Closer) who plays humans like pawns, vs. the Deist God (the "watchmaker") or Spinoza's God or God or Lord who is your designated higher power.
Last edited by allegro; 08-23-2013 at 11:14 PM.
Hairy Member
I've thought about that lately, with some of the references in new NIN so far. While religion in general makes me cringe, I always am variously envious of those who are capable of believing said stories. So if he is getting into religion - good for him. I just hate hearing about it.
Stubby Member
I am questioning my lack of better judgment now, 'cause I clicked this thread and read more than one post. Seriously, how entitled do NIN fans on ETS think they are? What fucking business is it of ours? Lyrics are lyrics and are nothing more.
Bite me
Um, I think this is a DISCUSSION BOARD and people are actually having an intellectual discussion?
One can believe in an abstract "God" without being religious at all. One can deny the existence of one type of God while still believing in a type of "Higher Power," even if that means the Borg. It's highly personal.
Last edited by allegro; 08-23-2013 at 11:03 PM.
Shit brushes skin
As I mistakenly posted elsewhere, to elaborate on what I said earlier, if TR were shoving it in my face like, say, Billy Corgan, it might turn me off a bit. But that's not the case here.
Hairy Member
I doubt highly he has gone to the other end of the 'belief' spectrum but family and fatherhood usually does bring some change in your outlook on life and meaning.
Good for him!
Josh Wink was on HLAH
Would you feel the same if he shoved godlessness in your face?
I was nobody. Nothing.
my sentiments exactly. i spend a great deal of my free time studying religions. and it drives me fucking CRAZY that people think that God = YHVH.Most of this is referring to people who actually know the roots and beliefs of their religion. The average American religious person just figures it's all the same because they don't even know much about the god they believe in (or don't believe in), let alone the one other people believe in to know the difference.
If i'm not mistaken, however, i believe that Allah IS the arabic word for god, and that the call to faith IS "there is no god but god." i may be wrong on this one.
I'm with Sheepdean, in that we should start a theism thread...Kyle, you seem to have studied as much as i have, and i'm sure we aren't the only ones.
Last edited by elevenism; 08-24-2013 at 07:29 AM.
Throbbing Member
I remember this. There was a question if there was tension in the group because JMJ is a Scientologist and Rob Sheridan tweeted photos about a protest against Scientology. Trent said he wasn't religious in any way and he was respectful of whatever the band members believed. He said something about not knowing anything about Scientology other than information from a biased media, and that if they were to compare Christianity and Scientology in regards to which had the most negative impact on the world that wouldn't be a discussion a Christian would want to have.
@37:30
Last edited by Millionaire; 08-24-2013 at 08:07 AM.
Active Member
Look guys, it's pretty obvious by now that NIИ is the most successful covert christian rock band ever.
I mean, just look at how you spell "the lord" in hebrew... its fucking "nin"!!! and Trent's reasoning for flipping one of those n's is a reference to the fact that you read hebrew in the reverse direction of english.
The only character missing is the "yod" which basically looks like a ' mark. Clearly, it's been hiding behind the box that normally surrounds [NIИ]. Is it any coincidence that the Hesitation Marks era logo has started dramatically removing that box? The yod will soon be revealed....
Last edited by DigitalChaos; 08-24-2013 at 06:12 PM.
Active Member
So do you think lyrics are all meaningless? Or do you just think nobody has the right to try and interpret them? Do you think songwriters get angry when people try to figure out what the meanings of their songs are? Do you think trent writes highly personal lyrics but would be horrified if he knew people wonder what they mean? Ffs man what are you talking about
Stubby Member
To me, Trent's religious beliefs are important in the same way that it changes my interpretation of THTF knowing he wanted a backdrop of GW Bush at the 2005 MTV Movie Awards and that he's married means my interpretation and/or understanding of Everything is different than if I didn't know those things.
Hairy Member
You know, I think that TR has enough reasons to not believe in God and at the same time he has enough reasons to do it.
Throbbing Member
What am I, the only HDA fan in this thread; no mention of On the Wing? Not sure who wrote the lyrics, but Trent sings them all the way through:
I hear the word is on the wing I don't believe in anything
A chorus of voices rise to sing I don't believe in anything
Used to Believe in you Yet all we do Is wait
Stubby Member
Calm down. No need for the poor attitude.
As an artist myself, I can appreciate how personal art is. NIN is an artistic construct, not a literal representation of the man behind the music.
Lyrics are what they are, and at no point did I say that they should not be up for interpretation. What I inferred was, that the lyrics are part of the artistic construct and nothing more. You can read into the lyrics as much as you want, but they may give you no true indicator of who Trent Reznor actually is. Even less so his spiritual / religious stance.
People need to realise that the lyrics are part of the NIN 'character' not Trent Reznor himself.
Hairy Member
I'm ok with godlessness and anti religion. I'll take that side. I'm not ok with any specific religion. I'll sign on to anti many or single religions. I'll be that guy. But, I'm heavily agnostic... so... I guess it adds up.
Quiet Member
man, trent going religious on me would be the final nail in the coffin.
Josh Wink was on HLAH
I take offence to you saying you're the only HTDA fan here :P.
And Mariqueen still write most of the lyrics, so probably not relevant. Not to mention that, imo, that song is more political than religious
Stubby Member
Same. Love HTDA.
Active Member
And you know that for sure? No you don't. And don't talk to me about poor attitude when you're chastising people for analysing art. i think you suppose way too much. "i'm an artist as well so I can tell you for sure that trent doesn't mean it literally".
"Inferred" is correct, because year zero aside, trent has never implied NIN's lyrics are fiction. The fragile is full of lyrics about substance abuse and grief, and guess what... Tr was a grieving wreckhead at the time
staggering coincidences like this lead most people to believe nin's lyrics have a personal journal quality to them... What makes you think they're more likely just the details of an invented persona?
the funny thing is you think people are line stepping by making suppositions about his faith based on his lyrics, but here you are feeling you can make assumptions about the nature of his art because... you consider yourself an artist... I mean at least everyone else is going on stuff he's actually written!
Stubby Member
OK. I think you take this (and yourself) a little too seriously. Be sure to have a real nice day knowing your opinion is the only one that is right.
Active Member
Er nope, you're the one dropping in to let everyone know how dumb they are for seeing things differently to you! And as someone who announces that their being an artist gives them a more advanced insight than everyone else ...I'm sure someone as down to earth as you is in a position to tell other people that they take themelves too seriously
been pondering this a bit... There is a bit of a scale for these things. You have something like ziggy stardust at one end and ian curtis at the other. But nonetheless despite the artifice of ziggy or the cod poetics of billy corgan, i still get the impression that the act is somehow still expressed from their own personal perspective and is about imparting some impression of life as they experience it
like to what degree do you consider TR's lyrics abstract from his personal life - surely many of the songs are clearly about events and issues in his life
Bite me
We know NIN lyrics represent Trent's thoughts and his personal life and words from his personal journals because he said so in dozens of interviews. We could cite them here, but you can easily find them yourself in the NIN Hotline archives.
In at least one interview, he said he did NOT feel comfortable creating a fictitious character (he cited Alice Cooper as an example of what he was avoiding), despite Bowie's advice to write from the fictitious third person standpoint (to make writing a less arduous and soul-mining task).
Edit: Here is a fairly recent interview where he conveys the above, stuff he's repeated many times in the past.
Last edited by allegro; 08-25-2013 at 08:21 AM.
Bite me
Then there's this interview.
And that hatred and isolation found expression in your music?
I found I could turn that into something. Instead of punching the wall and having my hand hurt, I could write it down. Strangely things came out of that seemed to have this catharsis. There was a beautiful element to it and it made me feel good. So I decided to keep doing that. When I wrote The Downward Spiral in 1993 I was five or six years into that experiment and it still worked.
The record was exploring a narrative about someone who systematically examines every aspect of their life and then destroys it on a path to trying to find some other solution. I'd started with that theme and fitted songs into the storyline, dealing with religion and sex and drugs and the record ended with some sort of conclusion that could have been suicide, but certainly wasn't a positive place.
The one song on that record that doesn't fit that description was Hurt, How did you write Hurt, which Johnny Cash famously covered...
The video he made of that song was overwhelming. When I saw it the power and beauty of music struck me in a really profound way. I was at a point in my life when I was really unsure if I was any good or if I had anything to say. The song came out of a really ugly corner of my mind and turned into something with a frail beauty. And then several years later an icon from a completely different world takes the song and juxtaposes himself into it in a way that seems more powerful to me than my own version. I was flattered as an artist and as a human being they could do that with my song. And it came at a very insecure time in my life and it felt like a nudge and boost and a hug from God. It said 'everything's OK and the world is bigger than what's just in my head.'
Throbbing Member
He probably believes in god, just not organized religion.
Flaccid Member
I find it pretty amusing that your question seems to make people uncomfortable. Donīt think you should have to be sorry for it!
Down, but not out.
I probably should've posted this sooner, but this thread kept reminding me of this.
And to add to the topic, Trent seemed to come across as an agnostic to me. (I'm not saying that he is, and I'd agree that it isn't any of my business either.)
Reply With Quote
