The little things that piss you off

[Sallos]

I don't understand what "lead them on" means. Or "up front about it." If people start out as friends, UNLESS THEY'RE FUCKING EVERY NIGHT, in which case maybe you need to have a conversation wherein you say "hey, I ain't into relationships and I probably ain't gonna be so let's be clear up front, okay?" and then if the other person falls in love, then it's at their own risk, OTHERWISE you can't go into friendships with the opposite sex thinking WOW, MAYBE THEY'LL SUDDENLY FALL IN LOVE WITH ME LIKE IN THE MOVIES!

Sure, that happens. But, IT'S JUST AS LIKELY NOT TO HAPPEN. Probably MORE likely not to happen. But "leading them on?" To what? Cars? Houses? A small country? To what? Sex? Honey, it's easy to get sex without friendship, trust me. Lots and lots of it. There's absolutely NO reason you need friendship to have great sex; in fact, the friendship thing can fuck up sex. So, what exactly would he/she be "leading you" into? Rejection? Oh, life is just FULL of that, so y'all better get used to it, 'cause you're gonna get lots and lots of it until you die, and if you blame every single person place and thing for leading YOU into it, you're a sorry pathetic state of a human being.


So, sex on a first date is absolutely to be expected for everyone, now, eh? Even in the land of AIDS and herpes? Just gotta put out, because he bought dinner and drinks? Don't want him to think you "lead him on?" Okay, just gotta be clear, here. Cuddling means sex is expected. This sounds like the prelude to rape or something, egad.

Thats why i said earlier if you want to have sex with women do not befriend them. The biggest problem with the guys that get friendzoned is that they first try to become friends with the women and then build that in the hopes that someday they'll get into a relationship together. What they fail to realize is that if you want to have a relationship or sex with a women you need to go straight to the point, make your intentions clear, make her know you want to have sex with her. Since the nice guys, whether they're not masculine enough, don't think they're attractive enough, believe that unlike the other guys, in order to get into a relationship they must first become friends with that person.

Then the girl sees the other guy only as a friend, unware of his true fellings for her. And thes when she's like "oooh wait a second, Mike i know you like to listen to NIN as much as i do, but we are just friends. Mike got friendzoned.

I mean, cuddling isn't an invitation for sex. If I was in that situation where I had feelings for the other person and they did not, I would tell them that I understood, but the physical interaction would have to stop, as it made things hard. The end. Doesn't have to impact the friendship, and there is nothing to get upset about.

I don't know about you, but if i invite someone to my house to watch movies and cuddle we're going to end up doing it. Its implicit.

[Sallos]

FRIENDS NEVER CUDDLE

caps

Hence leading them on................

[playwithfire]

I was being sarcastic, sorry.

I can totally cuddle with friends who I don't want to fuck without them taking it that way and vice versa. And watch movies.

And I don't have an army of male friends who think they're friendzoned because I don't become friends with those types in the first place.

[aggroculture]

I think men need to stop defining their self-worth in terms of what sex and relationships they are having or not having.
It creates all kinds of problems, not to mention the kind of rape culture by which women are seen as objects to be conquered and consumed, rather than humans to meet and interact with on an equal plane.
It's like a bizarre inversion of Victorian/19th century morality, in which it was unacceptable for women to be single.
Now if a man is single or not getting laid he's a loser. And we can't have that. So everything becomes secondary to that one, obsessive goal. Ah, friendship, what's it worth if I'm not getting laid?

I feel we really need a cultural shift to move beyond this toxic patriarchal masculinity.

Guys it's OK to be single and alone. If you are cool with yourself and respectful and interested in other things then maybe someone else will like you too. If you are an angry raging jerk desparate to get laid you will just cause misery to yourself and others.

[Sallos]

I think men need to stop defining their self-worth in terms of what sex and relationships they are having or not having.
It creates all kinds of problems, not to mention the kind of rape culture by which women are seen as objects to be conquered and consumed, rather than humans to meet and interact with on an equal plane.
It's like a bizarre inversion of Victorian/19th century morality, in which it was unacceptable for women to be single.
Now if a man is single or not getting laid he's a loser. And we can't have that. So everything becomes secondary to that one, obsessive goal. Ah, friendship, what's it worth if I'm not getting laid?

I feel we really need a cultural shift to move beyond this toxic patriarchal masculinity.

Guys it's OK to be single and alone. If you are cool with yourself and respectful and interested in other things then maybe someone else will like you too. If you are an angry raging jerk desparate to get laid you will just cause misery to yourself and others.

I don't know about you but, more men these days fancy being single then in a commited relationship. And men are not cool with not getting laid, not because everyone else is, but because we like it.

[Swykk]

Again, I end up in the middle of the two scenarios.

I'm not being nice because I want to fuck, but I've twice fallen for someone who started as a friend. I got used badly once. I got hurt the second time because she wasn't into me that way but was at least honest about it, which was one of those things that was handled properly but still tore me up.

I get that many of you don't like the term--I don't think it's great either, but you can't deny its existence. I'm here, now, telling you it happened.

[playwithfire]

It's a horrible word for something that is messy, and human, and normal. That's not "the friendzone" (though again, that sounds great), that's just... life happening.

[Swykk]

Maybe I'm in the wrong thread. It doesn't piss me off, it makes me sad. I don't feel like there's a place for me in this dating system because I like to know a person before I want to have sex with them.

[elevenism]

@Sallos , you read "The Art of Seduction" or something, right? All that talk about not being masculine enough and such...
YOU don't get "friendzoned," right.

[playwithfire]

Maybe I'm in the wrong thread. It doesn't piss me off, it makes me sad. I don't feel like there's a place for me in this dating system because I like to know a person before I want to have sex with them.

Well, you shouldn't like... hide your interest. You can absolutely get to know someone better while being honest about where you're coming from. This doesn't mean come onto them.

Be like, "Hey, I think you're really amazing and lovely and I'd love to get to know you better."

And if you want to be friends as well, hell yeah.

[Sallos]

@Sallos , you read "The Art of Seduction" or something, right? All that talk about not being masculine enough and such...
YOU don't get "friendzoned," right.

No i haven't read it. Or any other book regarding seduction or relationships. I go by trial and error, so yes, i too was friendzoned once, or twice....

[playwithfire]

Anyway, I'm mad at fucking everything these days. Fuck this anti-feminist sexist bullshit everywhere.

[Sallos]

Well, you shouldn't like... hide your interest. You can absolutely get to know someone better while being honest about where you're coming from. This doesn't mean come onto them.

Be like, "Hey, I think you're really amazing and lovely and I'd love to get to know you better."

And if you want to be friends as well, hell yeah.

Swykk i wouldn't tell girls you think they're are amazing and lovely if you're trying to get sexual with them, this is the kind of thing that gets one in the friendzone.
How'd you like that playwithfire?

[Sallos]

@Sallos , you read "The Art of Seduction" or something, right? All that talk about not being masculine enough and such...
YOU don't get "friendzoned," right.

Though i did read once, somewhere about how the russian spies during the cold war would get into women panties working at intellegence or married to someone in the intellegence to gather information. Some really cool stuff.

[theruiner]

It creates all kinds of problems, not to mention the kind of rape culture by which women are seen as objects to be conquered and consumed, rather than humans to meet and interact with on an equal plane.

I will NEVER understand this mentality. Ever. Fortunately, I don't surround myself with people that feel this way, and my male friends have never had this mentality. I probably wouldn't have been friends with them if they did. But I have had coworkers and acquaintances who have and it's just really obnoxious. And the worst part is that, because I appear to be a cisgender male, they think I agree with them. I'm not and I don't.

Also, yeah, I don't use the term 'friendzoned' because of the connotations attached to it, but yeah, having romantic feelings for someone when it's not reciprocated really sucks. But, like playwithfire said, it's life. My (now former) best friend and I had feelings for one another off and on but it never panned out for one reason or another. It sucked. There were times when it got really depressing. But at the end of the day, she was my best friend and that was so much more important than anything else. I wouldn't dream of acting entitled or being an asshole to her because she didn't feel the same way I did at the time (or vice versa). That's why our friendship survived- we didn't let it get weird and we didn't let it poison our relationship. At the end of the day, neither of us wanted to do anything that would have risked that.

[playwithfire]

Swykk i wouldn't tell girls you think they're are amazing and lovely if you're trying to get sexual with them, this is the kind of thing that gets one in the friendzone.
How'd you like that playwithfire?

What about the part where he said he liked to get to know people first?

Also, anyone who would take that as not-flirting is horribly oblivious.

But I mean, I wouldn't know. I've never been in the "friendzone."

cuz it doesn't exist

[elevenism]

Though i did read once, somewhere about how the russian spies during the cold war would get into women panties working at intellegence or married to someone in the intellegence to gather information. Some really cool stuff.

i'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here...
dude, haha, are you for real with all of this?

[Sallos]

i'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here...
dude, haha, are you for real with all of this?

The russian spies deployed in the US were trained in the art of seduction, thats why i mentioned it.

[elevenism]

What about the part where he said he liked to get to know people first?

Also, anyone who would take that as not-flirting is horribly oblivious.

But I mean, I wouldn't know. I've never been in the "friendzone."

cuz it doesn't exist

i think that @Sallos is talking about that bullshit where you follow rules like "never compliment a woman on her beauty unless you're fucking her."
Shit like this.
They teach you how to manipulate women as though they are objects for the sole purpose of using them.
The scary thing is that a lot of the tactics work.

I've never cared about just fucking, or the idea of being in control.
I like love and caring about each other and being down for one another and archaic stuff like that...you know, friendzoney stuff...the stuff that never gets you laid, brah!

[Sallos]

i think that @Sallos is talking about that bullshit where you follow rules like "never compliment a woman on her beauty unless you're fucking her."
Shit like this.
They teach you how to manipulate women as though they are objects for the sole purpose of using them.
The scary thing is that a lot of the tactics work.

I've never cared about just fucking, or the idea of being in control.
I like love and caring about each other and being down for one another and archaic stuff like that...you know, friendzoney stuff...the stuff that never gets you laid, brah!

I don't think making yourself presentable is manipulating women. When you dress yourself up, go to the gym, shave, wear perfume you're doing it you make yourself look good to others, speacially women. And also yourself, as those things really boost up your confidence, which is a quallity sought out for in men.

And since looking presentable is not only defined by how you look but also how you behave and say. So yes, you should keep those things in mind when approaching women.

[Sallos]

[Sarah K]

Shit like this.

I watched a couple of those. It's satire, right?

Fuck. That's some real Poe's Law shit going on right there. Haha. Any sane person watches that and can't believe it. But then as it goes on, you start to question it. I'm going to hope that it's satire. People can't actually believe that shit.

[elevenism]

I watched a couple of those. It's satire, right?

Fuck. That's some real Poe's Law shit going on right there. Haha. Any sane person watches that and can't believe it. But then as it goes on, you start to question it. I'm going to hope that it's satire. People can't actually believe that shit.

Sarah, i hate to tell you this, but it's real.
And there are lots and lots of other websites and books that advocate these behaviors.
Look up the "push/pull" technique.
Also things like the book The Art of Seduction by Robert Greene, and the thing @allegro mentioned.

And scarier still, there are plenty of men who think this way and use these tactics. I have one friend who swears by some of it, the manipulation.

It just blows my mind...the whole goal seems to be fucking as many "hot" women as possible using manipulation. There is nothing having anything to do with caring or love or making a fucking real connection with anyone.

And the way Sallo talks, i'm pretty damn sure he's read one of these books or another.

[Jinsai]

I was being sarcastic, sorry.

I can totally cuddle with friends who I don't want to fuck without them taking it that way and vice versa. And watch movies.

And I don't have an army of male friends who think they're friendzoned because I don't become friends with those types in the first place.

Really though, cuddling between straight men and women usually implies sexual interest.

It does not mean that sex (of any kind) is going to happen that night (or ever) though. I get a little tired of hearing people complaining about blue balls or girls being "cockteases." It's this kind of shit that makes women hesitant to "make a move."

[eversonpoe]

i think that @Sallos is talking about that bullshit where you follow rules like "never compliment a woman on her beauty unless you're fucking her."
Shit like this.
They teach you how to manipulate women as though they are objects for the sole purpose of using them.
The scary thing is that a lot of the tactics work.

I've never cared about just fucking, or the idea of being in control.
I like love and caring about each other and being down for one another and archaic stuff like that...you know, friendzoney stuff...the stuff that never gets you laid, brah!

[elevenism]

that's fucking great, @eversonpoe , and yeah, that's about right isn't it?

[eversonpoe]

that's fucking great, @eversonpoe , and yeah, that's about right isn't it?

bob's burgers is the most accurate portrayal of human beings i have ever seen, and it's a fucking CARTOON. it's probably my favorite show on television right now.

but, yeah, there are really people who think that this kind of shit works...that it's somehow an ok way to treat people, and that SCARES THE SHIT OUT OF ME. it's all part of rape culture and so few people are willing to recognize that, let alone try do something to help change it.

the "friendzone" is bullshit because, as @Sarah K and @playwithfire have been saying, it implies that one is ENTITLED to someone else's body/affection/attention. it's like cat-callers who think that the objects of their taunts are "mean" or "teases" if they don't respond.

no, you can't always be 100% clear about your intentions entering into any kind of relationship with someone, especially because those intentions/feelings may change over time. but whether you want to be someone's best friend or fuck them, unless they feel the same way, there's nothing to be done. yeah, rejection hurts, and there are some people who are manipulative, but that doesn't mean that ALL WOMEN ARE EVIL WITCHES WHO JUST WANT TO TRICK MEN INTO ENTERING THE FRIEND ZONE (can we please make a horror movie about this? PLEASE!?). it also doesn't mean that every single man is only looking for sex from women (also, people of all genders and orientations are capable of getting into these situations). it means that some people are dicks, and some people aren't. if given the choice, i will always choose to NOT be a dick.

p.s. the majority of the closest friends i've had throughout my life have been women. i can honestly say that (barring any actual attempts at relationships) i've only ever been sexually attracted to one of them (after we dated for a month at the end of 8th grade...hahaha). things were rocky in high school because i was still in love with her, and she had no interest in me in that way. i stayed a loyal and true friend not because i thought i'd find my IN some day, but because i genuinely cared about her. and i'm so glad that i didn't fuck that up, and that my feelings eventually receded, because she is basically my sister, and we've known each other for over 15 years. she was the maid of honor (on my side) at my wedding.
so i would say that anyone who has the potential to be in a romantic relationship with someone else is also capable of being friends with that person. you can't help who you're attracted to, but you can control how you act toward that person.

[elevenism]

Bob's Burgers, is it? i will have to check it out at some point in the near future, because i actually laughed, out lout. Thanks for that, @eversonpoe

One thing that pisses me off is people who feel the need to make themselves appear to be smarter than other people on message boards, often in an insulting way.
I see it a lot and have to wonder what these people are compensating for in trying to feel superior to someone they don't even know, not even a little bit.
I never thought i'd have to ignore people here, but from here on out, if someone tries that shit on me, i'm not going to argue back because i have a funny feeling you can't win.

[fillow]

Christmas/New Year decorations... when it's not even a fucking November yet.

[allegro]

Pisses me off: Drivers using hand-held phones. GET THE FUCK OFF THE PHONE, YOU LOSER. I HOPE YOU GET A FUCKING TICKET, YOU ASSHOLE.