Likes: 
Faceplams: How is Billy Corgan involved in all this? I believe I have missed something. Did they collaborate on something, or are they (or were they) friends? I remember they toured together a while back.
tempus est umbra in mente
How is Billy Corgan involved in all this? I believe I have missed something. Did they collaborate on something, or are they (or were they) friends? I remember they toured together a while back.
Active Member
Its all in another thread somewhere, where Corgan was berating TR and Eddie Vedder on Howard Stern and waxing lyrical about his friendship with Manson who is the godfather to his child! I can't remember the thread though.Originally Posted by Jinsai
To be honest, he's not really 'involved' but I think people are looking for commentary from anyone who has been involved or friends with him.
Looking into things Corgan has said, he was very disparaging about MM's relationship with Rose McGowan which fits into this terrible narrative some men have that other men are wonderful and women are the evil temptresses and cause a man's downfall - like men can't help being twats because of women when its their own actions. I don't know, that's how i see it in a certain generation of men anyway but its probably changing
Last edited by WorzelG; 02-12-2021 at 11:07 AM.
Active Member
Don't know, just noticed he deleted all his pictures and made his account private around the time MM was named. May well be unconnected to MM, but I thought it odd.
Obviously there's history between MM and BC, and MM's current wife is sister in law to James Iha. Who knows
Flaccid Member
Never thought I'd see the day when Manson's "fans" would side with the media against him.
Active Member
Siding with the overwhelming evidence mate
He's a pop singer - get some sense of priority
In any case this thread is just people compiling information connected to the allegations & discussing the possible implications
Active Member
Never thought I'd see the day when Manson's "fans" would side with the media against him.
Active Member
‘the media’ have been interviewing him and bigging him up for years, including interviews where he says he locks women in soundproof rooms for being ‘naughty’ - the media is part of the problemNever thought I'd see the day when Manson's "fans" would side with the media against him.
Bite me
BC’s IG account has been private for a long long time.
His wife Chloe wished MM happy birthday on IG and included a photo of him, commenting that she had a pic of herself with him “on her phone somewhere.”
That post was deleted.
I’ve never seen any reference to MM being godfather to either of BC’s kids. BC appears to be pretty Catholic, I don’t know how THAT would work out LOL.
MM is listed as the godfather of Lily Rose Depp.
Last edited by allegro; 02-12-2021 at 12:58 PM.
Active Member
He deleted all his photos from his Instagram (or made it private, whatever) long before this whole thing with Manson unfolded, so that's unrelated. They ARE friends, though. Manson joined the Pumpkins onstage for Eye & The Beautiful People back in 1997 and the two bands toured together in 2015. Also, Billy and Brian were filmed hanging out at that Limp Bizkit concert in 2019 where Fred got Manson to sing with him.
Last edited by sonic_discord; 02-12-2021 at 01:03 PM. Reason: clarification
Active Member
Ah didnt realise it was from a while back. But yeah they go way back, tbh I have a hard time imagining BC turning a blind eye to what MM is accused of
Bite me
MM and BC appear to be on/off friends.
BC lives in the Chicago North Shore, has a wife and two little kids and a restaurant, and a fairly normal family life. The other day, he and Chloe hosted a family Zoom vegan cookie-baking tutorial via Yelp that was hugely successful and pretty hilarious.
BC can be a dick, but - considering his family life - I also have a hard time believing he’d turn a blind eye to this. But I don’t think he’s necessarily going to make a public statement about it.
Last edited by allegro; 02-12-2021 at 01:17 PM.
Active Member
Page 133 of the Smashing Pumpkins thread @bobbiesolo posts a soundcloud rip of a Howard Stern interview with MM where he talks of him being godfather to his child (although could be he asks for that, not sure if he is). Just checked, the link is broken but he def said that, I remember it because I was thinking that MM is just using Billy for controversy
Bite me
Still not buying it, though.
Chloe's IG posts are filled with pics of Billy's actual (blood) family; holidays, birthdays, cousins, aunts, uncles; includes pics of Billy, Chloe and the kids dressed up in suits and dresses and going to dinner at the country club up the street for Easter Dinner with the Easter Bunny; pics of Billy taking Augustus trick-or-treating in Highland Park every year; pics of Billy and his huge Irish Catholic family doing typical family stuff. At what point does "Marilyn Manson as godfather to a kid" fit into any of that? To be a godparent in the Catholic church, you have to be Catholic. I know this because I am a Catholic godmother. If MM walked into a Catholic church, he'd burst into flames.
Last edited by allegro; 02-13-2021 at 09:50 PM.
Administrator
Re: Billy's IG
He did wipe it a few months ago but since then posted again. And he's been very active in stories, especially while promoting Cyr and reporting on Machina remix progress.
He's now again at 0 posts so I guess we wiped it again? He never explained it the last time and I don't think he will now.
Active Member
Yeah it could have been MM asks if he can be godfather and not granted. I don’t even think Billy would be party to this shit personally, Everything he said suggests his contact with MM is phone or email, not him hanging round his house. But there is a bit of a mob out there who is looking into everyone MM had a relationship with and questioning whether they knew or turned a blind eye (even Sharon Osborne!)Still not buying it, though.
Chloe's IG posts are filled with pics of Billy's actual (blood) family; holidays, birthdays, cousins, aunts, uncles; includes pics of Billy, Chloe and the kids dressed up in suits and dresses and going to dinner at the country club up the street for Easter Dinner with the Easter Bunny; pics of Billy taking Augustus trick-or-treating in Highland Park every year; pics of Billy and his huge Irish Catholic family doing typical family stuff. At what point does "Marilyn Manson as godfather to a kid" fit into any of that? To be a godparent in the Catholic church, you have to be Catholic. I know this because I am a Catholic godmother. If MM walked into a Catholic church, he'd burst into flames.
24.24.2.2866
Wasn't Billy Corgan quite chummy with Alex Jones and the Info Wars crowd?
Would almost make sense if he took Manson's side based purely on defending him from "cancel culture" since that's what those yahoos drone on about.
Bite me
He was on the show several years ago, before he got to this point in his life, yeah. I wouldn't say he was chummy with that crowd; Billy had some kind of bone to pick on his own, with all kinds of people and media. Big chip on his shoulder.
He has seemingly changed a LOT. He's vegan, gluten-free, a big health-food nut, he's a big adherent to Covid safety, he opened a restaurant with his wife during Covid against all odds to give back to the community and they're both big on safety (put in a big air cleaner thingie, etc.), he and Chloe are really involved in the community and in PAWS animal rescue. He used to bitch about taxes, here, constantly and publicly; since he has kids who'll assumedly be going into our (very good and very expensive) public school system in the future, he hasn't uttered a peep about that again.
He's active on the SP IG feed; his personal WPC feed has been private for a long time, even though Chloe still links it in her IG feed. I've noted it at 0 posts for a long time even though Chloe keeps tagging it.
Last edited by allegro; 02-13-2021 at 09:53 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
Alex Jones kinda masqueraded as a "pissed off free thinker" or something for a while there. He's got a cameo in that Richard Linklater movie Waking Life, and that used to be the stuff he would mostly shout about. It steadily got crazier as time went on.
Active Member
No shit? I just found and watched that scene on youtube. did not know that was him or had even heard of him when I saw it.
huh.
Throbbing Member
I think BC and MM have been acquaintances since at least ‘96/‘97 (from around 10:20) -
As someone above mentioned, there’s also the Lost Highway connection.
Active Member
They've been mates for years, in demystifying the devil missi details how he mediated her and MM's drunken breakup. I think they fell out for a few years or something, but made up in the end. He's in the liner notes for MA as either a thank you or a consultant or something.
I would be fascinated to hear what he thinks of recent events, seems quite a moral sort of chap these days
tempus est umbra in mente
maybe there's a mutual narcissist bond going on between them, because yeah, Corgan is a huge narcissist. He does come across as a pretty sensitive person though, and the sort of details I'm hearing here would horrify anyone, even if they have a personal morbid curiosity in macabre stuff. Then again, I don't personally know any of these people. If anything, it feels a little sad that so many people are being dragged into the orbit of what's happened here, when really, who knows what they knew. Who knows what Johnny Depp knew, or Manson's band mates even. Like I and others have said here, as people who have given him money and maybe gone to his concerts over the years, I would say most of us aren't complicit in this in any way; we really thought it was all part of a gimmicky stupid act.
Rock n Roll used to be all about projecting a dangerous image. It went with the territory most of the time. Now it seems like anyone who ever touched Marilyn Manson's world is tainted with association to this horrific stuff, and that's really where I think we need to hit the brakes a bit.
Bite me
I think this quote sums it up:
People around it believe that’s all it is: kink. The abuser is disguising it as kink, presenting the person involved as a willing participant. It’s theater of kink. But it’s an abusive charade. I’ve seen it MANY times.
https://www.them.us/story/kink-101-bdsm-and-consent
Last edited by allegro; 02-13-2021 at 12:27 PM.
Add Violins
One of the things that I keep thinking about is how, when I was young, Marilyn Manson seemed like a challenge to gender norms. It's just kind of upsetting to think about that old idea of him in the context of these current allegations. It feels like such a betrayal.
I can specifically remember being on a message board back in 1999 arguing with a very conservative older man who was saying that Marilyn Manson was this horrible monster, and the primary reason he cited was that Marilyn had dabbled in gay stuff. I don't know specifically what he was referring to, but there are multiple stories of Marilyn Manson doing sexual stuff with guys. Sucking off Twiggy, etc. And I specifically remember that guy saying, "If you think it's normal to suck on the face of someone who is the same sex as you, that just shows how insane our society has become thanks to people like Marilyn Manson." It shows how backwards things were back then. As a bisexual guy who had done the very thing that this older man had just described, there was something about Marilyn Manson that seemed revolutionary and powerful. It felt like he was breaking down barriers and opening people's minds to new things that had previously seemed "weird" and freaky.
I remember watching the video for "Long Hard Road Out of Hell" and thinking it was one of the most rebellious things I'd ever seen. Marilyn looked so androgynous in that video. I don't know how to perfectly articulate the idea that was in my head at the time. But it was something like: "Marilyn Manson's gender bending shit is revealing the misogyny of our society." People thought he was a freak because there was a feminine aspect to his appearance. The long hair, the makeup, etc. The fact that people found this stuff "freaky" only served to illuminate how sexist and prejudice they were. This was part of Marilyn's whole shtick back then. He supposedly did shocking things that were horrible and offensive, but what they really did was "hold up a mirror to society" and reveal the hatred and bigotry that permeated our culture. So when people looked at music videos of Marilyn Manson looking feminine and androgynous and they felt repulsed, it revealed something about the misogyny of our culture.
In many ways this was an old dynamic. Look at some of those old hair metal bands from the 80s. All those "bad boys" had perms and makeup. Twisted sister, etc. Rock was supposed to be rebellious, and part of the rebellion that was manifested in '80s hair metal and some of the stuff in the nineties like Marilyn Manson, was that men were dressing in feminine ways as a way of rebelling against the gender norms and the overall rigidness of society at that time. It felt revolutionary and badass to someone like me back then.
What's so depressing to think about is how all those rock stars have grown up to be a bunch of conservative douchebags. All these rebels sold out and embraced the status quo. They embraced the power that was promised to them through the patriarchy. All that makeup, all the perms, all the androgyny, it wasn't real. When push came to shove, all these supposedly "gender-bending" rockstars weren't really trying to challenge the patriarchy or the stifling structures of our culture. It was all bullshit. They were just trying to get attention to sell a product and get rich and famous. And to make their weiners feel good.
That's what I keep thinking about. Marilyn Manson was fucking bullshit. He wasn't an actual rebel. He was a fraud. He's just another male taking advantage of a shitty system. He's a fucking rapist. I'm not trying to take the attention away from the victims in this story. Because at the end of the day, they are the ones who have been harmed the most, of course. But as a public figure, Marilyn Manson used to be a symbol of something. And for all the stupid idiots like me who believed in the idea of his rebellion, this feels like a betrayal. That's what I keep thinking about. I feel BETRAYED by the idea of Marilyn Manson. He was supposed to tear down the bullshit of this society. Whatever happened to "We Are The Nobodies"? He was the patron saint of outsiders, of victims, of people who had been bullied, of people who were not accepted by shitty societal norms. Turns out, he was on the other side the whole time. He wasn't punching up, he was punching DOWN. He wasn't on the side of the bully victims. He became the bully. He became the abuser. He became power and violence. He's not a rebel. He's part of a system that ACTUAL rebels need to reject.
I don't know. I'm sure I've said some stupid things here. I'm just trying to process all of this.
Active Member
You do that if you want, but I think a poverty of discussion has brought us to this point. Closely connected parties are free to make a statement about the allegations, and if they don't then I think speculation is quite frankly incurred
Active Member
I think this is the case with the Armie Hammer thing too, which when considering the charges and the things I'm reading about his family, means that he is perhaps just as fucked up as MM, but with a pretty face. And unfortunately this runs kind of deep in BDSM circles too, I'm on FetLife and there's been a lot of controversy over these things happening with some of the more popular members. The one positive is that people are speaking up about it, and there is a more general awareness of consent about these things.
tempus est umbra in mente
I think what I'm saying is being misconstrued. There's thousands of people in this guy's orbit, and like I said earlier, I've heard personal anecdotes that I just didn't even know what to make of. But if we start insinuating that everyone who ever worked with him or got near him is basically an accessory for not coming forward with damning testimony?
tempus est umbra in mente
I never understood how the flagrantly homophobic stuff in his bio book got such a pass.
Active Member
I think I'm going to start taking a page out of a playbook that dealt with a different topic when I start running across things that seem questionable but not necessarily a problem, and that is to just draw attention to it and question it.
It's something someone said to me once about making inappropriate comments to underage girls, if you see something that seems off, call it out. Even if it's not someone grooming, it's still inappropriate.
You could be scaring off a predator, or you could just be calling out an inappropriate comment. Both of those things are a win.
I think if I hear something that could be abuse, but is being presented as not serious, that's what I'll do, is to question it. Maybe I'm outing a predator, or maybe I'm just calling out something inappropriate. Both outcomes improve the situation.
tempus est umbra in mente
I know this sounds weird to say, but in my real life experience, calling this sort of stuff out has lead to physical conflicts with complete strangers, and I've found that's something I want to avoid... for reasons also related to real life experience. Some of the people out there who act like this are NOT ok.
Posting Permissions
