Just tickles my balls!
People incapable of spelling "don't" correctly (which is incorrect in itself; should be doesn't) expect us to take them seriously? I'll stick with the educated doctors, thanks. If I need brain surgery I might call on these guys, though. They're experts in medicine, right?Originally Posted by allegate
local idiots are idiots:
Hairy Member
Here is a medical expert. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya MD, Phd Stanford Professor. I'm sorry, not to sure how to post a video in here. You can search Dr. Bhattacharya Comes on to Discuss Key COVID-19 Issues. I know it's there on Rumble, not sure about youtube because there are things he talks about that don't aline with the government narrative. It's really not fair to continue to mock and assume anybody who doesn't want or need a vaccine is stupid, or less than, or a "trumper" or Republican. There are scientific reasons to not vaccinate. The vaxed/ non-vaxed bullshit needs to stop. Natural/ acquired immunity is proven at this point. Look at the more dangerous issue, mandates and "social passports". Are you ok with that!? It needs to be stopped.
https://rumble.com/embed/viu1q1/?pub=4
Active Member
It's not fair that we have to deal with unvaccinated people clogging up ICUs and putting a massive strain on our medical resources, but here we are!
Vaccines have worked for hundreds of years. Unless you're someone who literally can't get a vaccine because it'll kill you, there's no logical reason to not get it. This stupid fearmongering over vaccines is what's killing us, not "social passports". The people who aren't getting it are either uninformed, ignorant, or being willfully obtuse. I have nothing but contempt for those people now, and especially for the people who know better and who enable them.
Active Member
Reading Jay's twitter feed and he's a looney. equating lack of trust in healthcare with 'failed' lockdowns? You mean those lockdowns that didn't work because of fucking idiots?
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Yes, I am. We've had mandates for decades. It's not new and it's not legally controversial.
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But but but they're researching for themselves and taking it slow and really looking into all the view points and considering what's best for them and their family and talking to literally everyone EXCEPT their fucking doctor <biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig fucking wanking motion>
Administrator
Saying things like "Natural/acquired immunity is proven at this point" in the face of a COVID death count that is on track to break 1,000,000 fatalities (in the US alone) by next year sure is a wild take. Saying vaccine mandates are dangerous has me wondering if you've ever gone to college or traveled internationally - or known anyone in the military. It's certainly true that there are some people who have medical reasons that prevent them from getting vaccines, the vast majority of people who claim medical or religious exemption are making that up because *checks notes* they are stupid Republican Trumpers. Psychologically it's not far behind the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" mindset.
Personally speaking, if not getting vaccinated against COVID-19 merely meant that all those anti-vaxxers who buy into anti-American propaganda met a swift death due to their own ignorance, while it would be an awful waste of life, I don't know how much space I'd give those dead people in my brain. The reality is that these needlessly anti-vax fear mongers are spreading disease and affecting our most vulnerable populations, whether that's those who can't get a vaccine but wish they could be protected, or whether that's by stuffing up ICUs to the point where people are unable to get regular hospital care. Personally, I think that everyone who thinks doctors are wrong about this one thing should be barred from hospitals. Treat yourself at home with YouTube remedies served by traveling doctors if you like.
Baseless anti-vax propaganda has contributed to fun facts like more people dying in Alabama than being born last year for the first time in history. Speculative anti-vax propaganda is why our country, despite having technology and manufacturing advantages over literally every other country in the world, has had a dramatically lower adoption rate and a dramatically higher mortality rate. There are people getting in fistfights about wearing a mask to buy coffee because someone told them a cloth mask will give them hypoxia, while I somehow managed to spend over 12 hours in airports and airplanes wearing cloth over an N95 mask, which doesn't even touch on what people in the service and health care industries have to deal with. Hashtag freedom, or something, I guess.
I like to think I'm more privacy conscious than most, and I'll tell you right now that nearly every person crying wolf over social passports is carrying credit cards and smartphones and never so much as whimpered as these encroached on privacy.
The bottom line is that the masses of people who get behind these sorts of arguments are arguing in bad faith. For generations, they've been raised in a society where it was more important to do what the preacher says than to read the book he claims to preach from. That shit doesn't fly here.
edit: I will also state for the record that I am aware that calling dumb people stupid is ableist and often triggers them to dig their heels in and double-down on their stupid positions, not unlike how shining bright lights in a deer's face makes it easier to shoot the deer. I acknowledge that this kind of ableist language has been used to justify some pretty fucking awful things in the past. Eugenics is a fucking terrible take, don't @ me. The era of the Trump administration has inspired my own mental regression into the angst of my teens and twenties in some ways. As I got older, I allowed optimism to seemingly enrich my world view, because it's a might better way to go through life than having negative thoughts about humanity as a whole. Will I ever regain that kind of optimism? Probably not. Is "get everyone smarter" going to solve the world's problems? Ted Cruz is a very successful man with degrees from Princeton and Harvard - education doesn't necessarily make people less awful. But I'm kind of tired of giving assholes free reign to be assholes, so if I trigger some snowflakes that used to like to throw around words like trigger and snowflake, here we are.
Throbbing Member
The idea of the government requiring shots and citizens producing records of those shots are not new. I changed public schools nearly every year growing up and had to produce shot records for enrollment, my children have to do the same. The State of Texas Dept. Heath and Human Services even has a vaccination tracking service you can opt into if you don't want to keep paper records.
This Cannot Continue
YouTube will now ban and remove Anti-Vax influencers, so watch as a large number of them pivot away now they can't make money from the misinformation.
Active Member
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Mugger Mike didn't bother to read the ordinance.
Active Member
who's got time to read when you've got a...
*puts on sunglasses*
...hot take?
I'm so sorry.
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HOT TAKES keep my family warm!
Hairy Member
I totally understand what you all are saying. I do. I just don't understand why so many seem to think that there is only "anti-vax propaganda" by "stupid" people. And so many who think you can vaccinate out of a pandemic. Once you have the virus in the wild, and non-sterilizing vaccines, you will NEVER eradicate. There is a narrative being pushed and facts are being censored. It's not ok. I'm not uniformed. I am an RN. I've seen side effects of this vaccine that left people permanently damaged. I am in an area of the most well known hospitals in the world. They are not overwhelmed with covid. There are vaccinated in the hospital, but it's difficult to get actual numbers of vax/ non-vax because it's a big "secret". I am not anti-vax, my kids are vaccinated with the recommended vaccines except for chicken pox, because that was new when my last child was a baby and I chose no. And hepatitis B because they were not in daycare or anywhere else where they would be exposed to hep b as babies. They weren't mandated out of school over it. Enough of antidotal, I don't want to be that way. There is nothing wrong with finding and reading scientific work on both sides, there is a lot if you look for yourself and not just do what your told. And please, please do that before injecting children, babies and pregnant women with this vaccine. Nobody can honestly tell you it's "safe" for them and what the future may hold. NOBODY KNOWS! I will go mind my own business now, all of this covid issue is so disturbing. Stay well, live your life, be decent humans. Oh! and if you choose vaccines, do them one at a time. It's better for your immune system. Example, don't get covid and flu vaccine at the same time even though CDC is saying it's ok... and that's straight from the functional medicine doctor at Cleveland Clinic.
Active Member
Google'd "non-sterilizing vaccine" and this article popped up.
also I believe you meant anecdotal but antidotal is a interesting eggcorn.We’re Asking the Impossible of Vaccines
Complete protection against infection has long been hailed as the holy grail of vaccination. It might simply be unachievable.
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Fuck this "I've seen" garbage. If this were true, which it is not, you and your hospital would be fielding press calls non-stop and the CDC would be beating down your doors.
Hairy Member
Whoops spell errors corrections oh no ATTACK. ONE person of many, damaged by vaccine is my MOTHER. Your opinion is I'm lying ATTACK. CDC needs to be defunded. Propaganda. Lies. Hiding information. Bullying professionals. Information is so well hidden you don't even have a clue. ATTACK. You think I'm going to come in a band forum and lie? For what? Vaccines that do not stop transmission can encourage mutations, look it up. Vaccines that eradicate disease, as example smallpox, can do that because there is no wild animal reservoir, look it up, instead of... ATTACK. Time will tell what is true. tick tock.
Flaccid Member
Don't let it get to you, "sticksandhair." Given all the chaos surrounding covid, including the vaccine rollout, it is reasonable to take a step back and ask questions. Anyone who tries to suppress or ridicule questions are behaving quite badly. And given the amount of collective moral superiority beginning with the Trump administration, it is no surprise that these are the consequences. If you try to make people feel stupid, they are probably not going to cooperate. It's very simple. So I do wonder, what is it the majority really want? Because if you really want to influence someone, you first start with understanding their position and making them feel heard. That is the first aspect of dialogue. When folks choose to misrepresent another position, I am suspicious it is more about control. I don't find it difficult to empathize with those who are gung ho about this particular vaccine. Why should it be so difficult to understand those who are suspicious, hesitant, or scared? Is empathy that truly difficult?
By the way, I am a doctoral student, although of course education does not necessarily equate intelligence, as noted in a previous thread. Personally, I do know dozens of doctoral level folks who are critical of how this pandemic is being handled that I find to be the top percentage of brilliant thinkers--I really don't think most folks would find these people stupid in any way and yet they are not lining up to get the "jab." Why the desperation? Do you folks for this vaccine understand you probably would get what you want faster if you engage in actual, respectful dialogue and genuinely listen to the concerns of the other?
Trollhunter
No, guy with two posts, it doesn’t (honestly waiting for a Scooby Doo reveal that you were here before but were banned or left because meanies aka people who tried to reason with you). We have had the last 5 years (arguably longer) to show that no amount of “hear this bad take out and then respond politely with the truth and it totally works.” In fact, grifters/Republicans/libertarians/antivax morons don’t respond to anything.
Hearing out terrible opinions on established facts/science doesn’t help. They’ll quadruple down. Kid gloves are off. People are dying.
mAnY sIdEs
Last edited by Swykk; 09-29-2021 at 03:26 PM.
Flaccid Member
What's wrong with two posts?I'm not established enough to join the conversation?
This isn't about facts. The faster folks understand that this is a collective emotional crisis, the faster the right tools can be used in order to tolerate and cooperate with one another.
Btw, it's not just 'hearing out.' It is understanding the other's position. Empathy.
Last edited by TheHarvest; 09-29-2021 at 03:32 PM.
Trollhunter
Yes it is.
And it’s an “emotional crisis?” How about HEALTH crisis. I’m not hearing out people uninterested in protecting themselves and others from the spread and mutation.
This feels an awful lot like a troll job.
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We understand the position. The position is: own the Libs at all costs**. We've seen it time and time again.
** until I need to be intubated.
Active Member
Flaccid Member
Well I'm honestly not a troll. I felt bad that a poster feels like she can't voice her concerns without being labeled an idiot. I don't think that helps anything. I know this is a public health crisis, but the resistance towards cooperation is emotional. So that has to be addressed first.
You don't have to hear anyone out. But if someone else has what you need and you are relying on them to behave a certain way, charitably understanding their position and not misconstruing it may get you what you want. Compliance rarely gives us the results we are hoping for. That's all I'm saying.
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This assumes good faith and lack of bad actors. Neither of which are true.
Instead of pointing to conclusive evidence of permanent damage from the COVID vaccine we got an unhinged rant about propaganda and the CDC actively hiding documentation. I mean…
Last edited by cdm; 09-29-2021 at 04:23 PM.
Flaccid Member
Yes, I get that the rebuttals sound conspiratorial. But what is the underlying emotional tone? Fear of being controlled against one's will. We all know what that feels like. So then it's easier to work with the emotional tone than the rationale. It's not unreasonable to feel that way considering how chaotic everything is.
I think we have a long ways to go to understand the motivation for being a "bad actor." But I know masterful therapists, psychologists, and chaplains who go into the prisons and can get folks to human place. I think more than just professionals are going to have to rise to the empathic occasion if we are going to survive as a species. But that's just my vocational aspiration talking...I get why everyone is at maximum frustration right now. Just throwing my piece in...back to lurking, wish you all well.
Active Member
The motivation isn't worth understanding right now.
People are dying because of the action, the misinformation and the arguments that do nothing but distract from the reality.
Let's prioritize people not dying, and maybe worry about their feelings later???
People were nice for a long long time, and the conspiracy-loving anti-vaxx crowd just kept coming up with bullshit reasons to not get it. We need to get tough to save lives now.
The time for understanding and reason is over, because the last year and a half has shown that those things are not effective in this case.
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They don't sound conspiratorial. They >are< conspiratorial. Batshit anecdotes about this and about that with no documentation or evidence...we're just supposed to take it at face value and give it equal merit to scientific studies and accumulated medical experience.
Not all positions are reasonable and those that aren't should not be treated as such.
Active Member
funnily enough over the past week, I've noticed many message boards across various spectrums (even sports! ) with new posters saying things like, "I'm a nurse and... " or , "I'm a doctor and..." or "I'm a doctoral student and..." .
Not quite sure if it's a coincidence or not.
Active Member
Newt was at the forefront of this whole feelings/facts debate.
key takeaway:There are three different lines of thinking he explores, and they should all terrify you.
- The full suite of facts doesn't say what you want it to say, so you pick out the few facts that support your non-factual position and talk about them.
- The average American doesn't think that the facts says what they actually say, and that alone should be a basis for both voting and policymaking.
- And that what people feel about an issue is more important than what the actual facts behind the issue are.
In other words, once we make up our minds, it doesn't matter what the additional facts are, not unless we're actively scientifically curious about them.
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