SWANS + related projects

[eversonpoe]

well, that's a twist.

i felt super sick to my stomach over this last night when i found out, and now i just don't know what to think.

[perceptionnexus]

Innocent until proven guilty, as far as I'm concerned. Most people likely aren't going to know either party on a personal level, at least enough to make a proper judgment otherwise.

[frankie teardrop]

while no one has enough information to make any judgement on the situation one way or the other, it's also not a good look to discredit larkin grimm, which a lot of people are doing on social media. while i really hope this didn't happen for all parties involved, it's equally shitty to attack her or discredit her in any way, regardless of what statements have been made so far.

[triplesun]

God, this makes me sick to my stomach. The whole situation is so fucked up and tragic whichever way one looks at it. I'm despairing in so many ways right now...

I abhor the "guilty until proven innocent" social media lynching that inevitably follows stories like this, but I really have no idea what to think about this. Every fiber of my being wants to believe this isn't true, but Grimm lays out a pretty clear-eyed and convincing summation, and to my outsider's perspective, has nothing to gain from a false accusation (other than, perhaps, revenge, which seems to be Gira's explanation for it). Conversely, the way Gira and his wife are handling this is messy to say the least. His wife's semi-coherent defense comes off as brash, knee-jerk and ableist. Of course, I can't guarantee I wouldn't be as panicked and recklessly hasty to defend myself or a loved one if I were in her shoes...but the differences in how each party is choosing to handle the situation certainly don't reflect well on Gira.

Another thing that is bothering me about this is that, as I was reading Grimm's post, I recalled interview with David Yow in which he recounts an incident that occurred at J.G. Thirlwell's apartment in the mid-80s where Gira came on to him, shoved his tongue in Yow's mouth and Yow bit it so hard he drew blood in an attempt to get away. I'm seeing a lot of fans dismissing Grimm's accusation on the basis that what she claims seems horribly out of character for Gira, but the fact is that until recent years he had a terrible reputation for belligerent behavior of all kinds, and there is at least some sort of precedence for sexual harrassment/misconduct here.


I have no idea how this will all pan out, but I have a feeling it's going to get really ugly fast, and that the fallout will be massive.

[Frozen Beach]

I honestly think that Michael and his wife's statements come off realistic in this situation. Of course, some of the things they have said may not help make them look good to some people, but that's because they're confronting the issue ASAP with emotions running wild. I imagine they're both in a state of shock of sorts. While their way of making a statement may have not been perfect, I think it's better than the usual "wait and construct a statement." Those always seem very fake to me. If you're being accused of something, you don't want to marinate on it, you want to confront it. And confronting it head on might not be the smartest idea, but I think it's the most human.

[emptydesk]

thought it was tacky to put his wife in front of it, and then for his wife to use her experience as a bludgeon to victim shame

nobody looks good here

[screwdriver]

I am always fascinated by people's omniscience when it comes to analyzing social media, as if there is some magic status that just needs to be typed. Let's assume that someone is falsely accused of rape on social media, and it goes viral -- how on earth are they actually supposed to respond in the court of public opinion? No clue. Terrifying.

[emptydesk]

given that occurrences of false rape accusation is infinitessimally miniscule compared to actual rape accusation, compounded with the fact that we are still not culturally or legally capable of taking rape seriously... i'm comfortable supporting potential victims in that environment

[eversonpoe]

given that occurrences of false rape accusation is infinitessimally miniscule compared to actual rape accusation, compounded with the fact that we are still not culturally or legally capable of taking rape seriously... i'm comfortable supporting potential victims in that environment

wow, i did not expect to agree with you so wholeheartedly on anything, but you basically just repeated something (nearly verbatim) that i said in the feminist thread the other day.

[screwdriver]

given that occurrences of false rape accusation is infinitessimally miniscule compared to actual rape accusation, compounded with the fact that we are still not culturally or legally capable of taking rape seriously... i'm comfortable supporting potential victims in that environment

Nobody isn't supporting victims. I'm just interested in an answer to the hypothetical, especially given that you called his wife's post "tacky" and otherwise felt comfortable commenting on her post, with zero real insight into the situation.

[emptydesk]

Dude, his wife publicly called his accuser crazy. It is tacky.

[emptydesk]

Good read: http://www.bkmag.com/2016/02/26/afte...usic-industry/

[ad infinitum]

Gira has released a statement acknowledging there was a romantic encounter, but it was not rape- http://www.stereogum.com/1862310/swa...-accuser/news/


It seems like several years back I heard or read something alleging Gira had been physically abusive towards Jarboe, but now I can't find much about it anywhere. Anyone else hear something along those lines?

[emptydesk]

Sure there Gira, let's not acknowledge that the key part here is that she was passed out.

[xmd 5a]

while no one has enough information to make any judgement on the situation one way or the other, it's also not a good look to discredit larkin grimm, which a lot of people are doing on social media. while i really hope this didn't happen for all parties involved, it's equally shitty to attack her or discredit her in any way, regardless of what statements have been made so far.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. Many of the comments being made about her are profoundly disturbing, and part of the reason why survivors of sexual violence may be reluctant to come forward.

[ad infinitum]

Larkin's response to the statement Gira released. Very thought-provoking.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/co...nse-statement/

[Frozen Beach]

I haven't really been paying attention to this situation, but Michael's ex wife posted this


This is entirely the opposite of Larkin's claim that she told Siobhan about it, and Siobhan questioned if their daughter was safe from Michael. I can't even find the post of that claim anymore. She deleted it for some reason.

edit: found a screencap

[eversonpoe]

see, now, Siobhan's statement is level-headed and reasonable, and that i actually believe. i think. i don't know, i'm having a really hard time with this whole thing.

[Frozen Beach]

see, now, Siobhan's statement is level-headed and reasonable, and that i actually believe. i think. i don't know, i'm having a really hard time with this whole thing.

yeah, well she's not helping her self by posting comments like this.


I know this situation is serious, but now it just feels like I'm watching an episode of Jerry Springer.

[eversonpoe]

yeah, well she's not helping her self by posting comments like this.


I know this situation is serious, but now it just feels like I'm watching an episode of Jerry Springer.

oh jesus, yeah, that's ridiculous.

this whole thing is ridiculous.

i kind of hate people a lot right now, in general. i'm just gonna go crawl in a cave and listen to mamiffer forever.

[Frozen Beach]

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/margaret-morris-of-heroes-are-gang-leaders-denies-larkin-grimms-allegations-against-thomas-sayers-ellis/

This is somewhat relevant

[ad infinitum]

Wow. This whole thing is getting supremely ugly & rather depressing.

[Frozen Beach]

edit: found a screencap

Siobhan confirms this claim is a lie

[blackholesun]

Not sure what to think about this whole thing. I'll always side with the victim immediately, but I'm seriously conflicted here. And this has nothing to do with my fandom of Swans, which I'm willing to throw away in an instant if this is true.

[Lerxto]

New album, 'The Glowing Man' out June 17th
http://younggodrecords.com/products/the-glowing-man

(additional information)
8 Tracks, total 118min

1. Cloud Of Forgetting 12:43
2. Cloud Of Unknowing 25:12
3. The World Looks Red/The World Looks Black 14:27
4. People Like Us 4:32
5. Frankie M. 20:58
6. When Will I Return? 5:26
7. The Glowing Man (previously known as The Black-Hole Man) 28:50
8. Finally, Peace 6:15

[october_midnight]

[Lerxto]

Looks like the new album is already being shipped.
I just can't wait to get my hands on this one. Based on what I've heard so far this record could be better than To Be Kind, even The Seer.

[Lerxto]

After the rape accusation it seems like many people here have relatively lost interest in Swans or anything M. Gira related, but The Glowing Man leaked yesterday, and it's magnificent.
The long tracks are concise, groovy or ambient at times, the short ones are as always, moving.

[eversonpoe]

After the rape accusation it seems like many people here have relatively lost interest in Swans or anything M. Gira related, but The Glowing Man leaked yesterday, and it's magnificent.
The long tracks are concise, groovy or ambient at times, the short ones are as always, moving.

yeah i'm feeling very conflicted about swans these days. i pre-ordered the vinyl from amazon (don't care about it being signed at all, and i have signed copies of the previous two albums) and i'm looking forward to listening to it, but i'm worried my distaste with gira will color my enjoyment of the record. still not sure what really happened or who was in the wrong, but the entire situation is very uncomfortable.

[xmd 5a]

Really enjoyed my first listen of The Glowing Man. Nothing radically different to the previous two records, but it leans more on the sprawling pastoral vibes than the punishing, hypnotic slabs of noise. Seems like a decent way of closing out this era of the project.

All that said, I'd be lying if I said the recent nastiness hasn't dampened my enthusiasm for the band overall.