Marilyn Manson

[Jinsai]

My point being that the NIN fans who attack Manson for being a "rip-off artist" will have a Hell of a time defending a record whose emotional centerpiece is an unacknowledged-by-the-artist note-for-note lift from David Bowie's "Crystal Japan".

He acknowledged it.

(If you're an uninformed hipster, that is to say a post-With_Teeth NIN fan", do a YouTube search for "A Warm Place", then look up "Crystal Japan". They're the same track. This little factoid was forgotten along the way to declaring Trent Reznor the uncontested champeen of all angsty music we are required to worship.)

I was a Bowie fan before I was a fan of NIN. You're a silly person.

[L'Acephale]

He acknowledged it? That's news to me, as I remember him ending an interview in the 90s when it was brought up.

On a more relevant note, can we expect the ACSS master tracks to be returned any time soon? I'm assuming that Reznor, that paragon of humility and rock star maturation, is decent enough to do that.

[Jinsai]

He acknowledged it? That's news to me, as I remember him ending an interview in the 90s when it was brought up.

Yes, while on tour with Bowie, he admitted that he ripped it off. He called it accidental, but he admitted it while Bowie sat about 2 feet away from him, so that's about as direct of an admission as you can get.

On a more relevant note, can we expect the ACSS master tracks to be returned any time soon? I'm assuming that Reznor, that paragon of humility and rock star maturation, is decent enough to do that.

People here don't (generally) worship Trent Reznor. You're in the wrong part of the board. With Teeth was a huge disappointment, The Slip was frequently boring, half the songs on Year Zero are silly... I don't WORSHIP Trent Reznor. Shut the fuck up and go back to your website where they try to stop people from talking about music.

[L'Acephale]

Yes, while on tour with Bowie, he admitted that he ripped it off. He called it accidental, but he admitted it while Bowie sat about 2 feet away from him, so that's about as direct of an admission as you can get.

Ah, okay, that must have been one of his brief bouts of lucidity between the times he was a DOPEY CLOWN on that tour (or maybe after he recorded such an original cover as "Personal Je... er, "Zoo Station").

People here don't (generally) worship Trent Reznor. You're in the
wrong part of the board. With Teeth was a
huge disappointment, The Slip was frequently boring, half the songs on Year Zero are silly... I don't WORSHIP Trent Reznor. Shut the fuck up and go back to your website where they try to stop people from talking about music.

I'm perfectly happy to acknowledge
Manson's fuck-ups: THEOL and the atrocious production on Born Villain (I will never apologize for Eat Me, Drink Me).

What I want is (A) for Trent to stop being a douche*, and (B) for the hardcore NIN fanbase to stop being douches. I'd be happy for MM to have been picked up by Sony back when they were scouted in '92, but hey, if wishes were horses...

* - this includes an apology to Al Jourgunsen, unrelated to Manson.

[Jinsai]

What I want is (A) for Trent to stop being a douche, and (B) for the hardcore NIN fanbase to stop being douches. I'd be happy for MM to have been picked up by Sony back when they were scouted in '92, but hey, if wishes were horses...

What I want is:

A) A pony

B) For the hardcore manson people from Provider Module to fuck off and quit assuming a bunch of stupid shit.

[L'Acephale]

I'll be back at PM as soon as we can post about the new album.

But, seriously, you don't think Trent was in the wrong with regards to the ACSS follow-up, even just a little?

Sure, Manson was an idiot for wanting the Lost Highway soundtrack. But that's not what caused the split.

[Jinsai]

I'll be back at PM as soon as we can post about the new album.

Yes, run back to the music website where you aren't allowed to TALK about music.

I care about personal infighting between Marilyn Manson and anybody else about as much as I enjoy lying on my back and pissing into my mouth. Nobody on Provider Module is stopping you from whining about how much you have a sad stupid problem with Trent Reznor. Go over there and do it. Have a good cry on that website about it. Nobody cares. You could even say that Trent Reznor is a pussy who should try wiping his eardrums with Vagisil.

Just be sure you don't offer an opinion about the new Marilyn Manson album. The god of fuck thinks that's super scary.

[L'Acephale]

Hilarious.Everybody at PM knows that eeverybody else there has already heard the album. I mentioned listening to it in chat - whilst a mod was in chat. I then asked whether or not he'd help me find an old fan site. He agreed.

Again, I ask: don't you think Big Poppa Pump might have been wrong in wanting the follow-up to ACSS to be ACSS 2? Considering how far beyond the production for Mechanical Animals was from Trent's capabilities, I can see why he wanted to be so conservative. Still...

[Jinsai]

Again, I ask: don't you think Big Poppa Pump might have been wrong in wanting the follow-up to ACSS to be ACSS 2?

When you say "again, I ask" it implies that you already asked the question. You didn't. Either way, whatever, I don't care. Wasn't Holy Wood supposed to be a sort of Antichrist Superstar part 2, but not as good?

Who the fuck is Big Poppa Pump?

[L'Acephale]

Trent, post-roids. Google "Scott Steiner".

And I dunno. Holy Wood has a far better production than ACSS, which sounds kinda emaciated, like the soundtrack to a mid-90s videogame (a remaster might help, if a certain fat fuck would get off the tapes). Dave Sardo is a genius.

[Jinsai]

(a remaster might help, if a certain fat fuck would get off the tapes)

[L'Acephale]

http://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content...ampire_320.jpg

'roids shrink the testicles, you know.

[tony.parente]

Woah, this conversation makes both nin fans and manson fans look well...

[Sutekh]

lol @ the idea that warm place ripping off crystal japan is some unacknowledged skeleton in the closet

Holywood sounds good (it's dave sardY by the way) but not sure it sounds as good as ACSS. Holy wood is crisp and rich but doesn't have much depth. The production on ACSS is a little dated in some places but it's so jam packed with layers of weird stuff that it comes out on top.

[Khrz]

Woah, this conversation makes both nin fans and manson fans look well...

I for one am glad to see both sides have grown into graceful, intelligent, mature and educated gentlemen. This witty exchange of lighthearted quips is absolutely delightful !

[L'Acephale]

lol @ the idea that warm place ripping off crystal japan is some unacknowledged skeleton in the closet

It certainly was for the first five or so years after the release of TDS. I don't know whether Trent's acknowledged it subsequently, but he was awfully... not happy with it being mentioned back in the 90s.

And my point is this: I'm way too young to have been into either band in the 90s. Being a fan now, my opinion is that both acts are basically
a shadow of what they were: Manson's career has been an interesting trainwreck disaster since 2005, where Trent's has been a long slide into repetitive mediocrity. Of the two, Manson is still interesting in a how-low-can-he-go The Wrestler sense, where Reznor simply needs to give up on making music; he can't do it at all anymore.

As far as ACSS, the production on it is terrible. Quoting from memory, the Allmusic review nailed it when it qmentioned that the guitars are anemic, sounding like buzzsaws
instead of chainsaws. I don't care how many little samples Trent tried to force into the
mix, it made the guitars sound harmless on that record - "Angel With The Scabbed Wings" in particular sounds basically emasculated by the Godawful production. That album needed to sound no different, instrumentally, from an early-90s Sunshine Studios death
metal release. But it's piss weak instead, like The Downward Spiral, when it basically needed to sound like Nocturnus' The Key - strange, but with the guitars still absolutely present and a-fucking-counted for.

Mechanical Animals was easily the best production job Manson's ever had, followed by Holy Wood. ACSS sounds hardly any better than THEOL.

[WorzelG]

It certainly was for the first five or so years after the release of TDS. I don't know whether Trent's acknowledged it subsequently, but he was awfully... not happy with it being mentioned back in the 90s.

And my point is this: I'm way too young to have been into either band in the 90s.

the interview jinsai mentioned was in 1995 though, a year after release, so you are full of shit. So since you are wrong and you are basing all your opinions on everything i imagine from Marilyn Manson quotes and his book, are you not just a bit biased??

[L'Acephale]

the interview jinsai mentioned was in 1995 though, a year after release, so you are full of shit. So since you are wrong and you are basing all your opinions on everything i imagine from Marilyn Manson quotes and his book, are you not just a bit biased??

Hey, genius: Manson doesn't mention Reznor or The Downward Spiral in his book, except to say that Trent stopped returning his calls.

I'm way more negative about Trent than Manson's ever been, and that's primarily to do with the way shitbag's treated Al Jourgunsen over the years. I also happen to be amused by Manson, and think he's a better human being than Trent, and will fight to the hilt for him against the typical NINnie condescension.

As for the interview, I don't know, do your own homework. An interviewer, sometime after the release of TDS, brought up "Crystal Japan". TRez walked out. Do your own homework.

[L'Acephale]

[QUOTE=WorzelG;233306]the interview jinsai mentioned was in 1995 though, a year after release, so you are full of shit. So since you are wrong and you are basing all your opinions on everything i imagine from Marilyn Manson quotes and his book, are you not just a bit biased??[/
QUOTE]

Hey, genius: Manson doesn't mention Reznor or The Downward Spiral in his book, except to say that Trent stopped returning his calls.

I'm way more negative about Trent than Manson's ever been, and that's primarily to do with the way shitbag's treated Al Jourgunsen over the years. I also happen to be amused by Manson, and think he's a better human being than Trent, and will fight to the hilt for him against the typical NINnie condescension.

As for the interview, I don't know, do your own homework. An interviewer, sometime after the release of TDS, brought up "Crystal Japan". TRez walked out. Do your own homework.

[WorzelG]

[QUOTE=L'Acephale;233307]

the interview jinsai mentioned was in 1995 though, a year after release, so you are full of shit. So since you are wrong and you are basing all your opinions on everything i imagine from Marilyn Manson quotes and his book, are you not just a bit biased??[/
QUOTE]

Hey, genius: Manson doesn't mention Reznor or The Downward Spiral in his book, except to say that Trent stopped returning his calls.

I'm way more negative about Trent than Manson's ever been, and that's primarily to do with the way shitbag's treated Al Jourgunsen over the years. I also happen to be amused by Manson, and think he's a better human being than Trent, and will fight to the hilt for him against the typical NINnie condescension.

As for the interview, I don't know, do your own homework. An interviewer, sometime after the release of TDS, brought up "Crystal Japan". TRez walked out. Do your own homework.

What did he do to Al 'over the years'? Since you just admitted you're too young to even have been into 90s bands how would you even know anything? Recently in an interview Al said he didn't have any issues with Trent, and seemed to suggest people were pushing for there to be issues.

I think the interview you're talking about with ref to crystal Japan is complete made up bollocks, sorry

[Sutekh]

It certainly was for the first five or so years after the release of TDS. I don't know whether Trent's acknowledged it subsequently, but he was awfully... not happy with it being mentioned back in the 90s.

And my point is this: I'm way too young to have been into either band in the 90s. Being a fan now, my opinion is that both acts are basically
a shadow of what they were: Manson's career has been an interesting trainwreck disaster since 2005, where Trent's has been a long slide into repetitive mediocrity. Of the two, Manson is still interesting in a how-low-can-he-go The Wrestler sense, where Reznor simply needs to give up on making music; he can't do it at all anymore.

As far as ACSS, the production on it is terrible. Quoting from memory, the Allmusic review nailed it when it qmentioned that the guitars are anemic, sounding like buzzsaws
instead of chainsaws. I don't care how many little samples Trent tried to force into the
mix, it made the guitars sound harmless on that record - "Angel With The Scabbed Wings" in particular sounds basically emasculated by the Godawful production. That album needed to sound no different, instrumentally, from an early-90s Sunshine Studios death
metal release. But it's piss weak instead, like The Downward Spiral, when it basically needed to sound like Nocturnus' The Key - strange, but with the guitars still absolutely present and a-fucking-counted for.

Mechanical Animals was easily the best production job Manson's ever had, followed by Holy Wood. ACSS sounds hardly any better than THEOL.

I see what you mean but don't agree at all - the guitars on ACSS and scabbed wings in particular have a greasy, sweaty sound that is just perfect - IMO

THEOL is a bit of a mad comparison... that's a seriously low budget production job... tempted to assume you must be having a laugh with that one

Also Manson doesn't mention Reznor in his book? Er... what about the food fight, the acid in the lift, the girl in the pool etc etc. Have I totally misunderstood you or something? Trent is in it a fair bit. Also he mentions that he was afraid ACSS was just going to become a retread of Downward Spiral.

And I'm curious - what did Trent do to Al?

[L'Acephale]

Al kicked after the release of Dark Side of the Spoon. I leave it to your imagination as to who causefhim to relapse (and, subsequently, abandoned him to his addiction).

I have no respect for Trent, as an individual or as an artist. At all.

I'll leave the thread now.

EDIT: Yes, the hazing is in the book and whatever, but little to nothing negative about Trent.

You might want to ask yourself why Trent has always been the 'aggrieved' party in this matter, as with Al, as with everybody. They're not all wrong.

[Sutekh]

haha why announce it like that - don't be a prat

Had no idea TR caused him to relapse, where did you hear that?

edit - I'm not really sure what your point is? I'm not arguing trent is some tip top bloke... he probably is a bit of a prick, who knows... who cares... most musicians are wankers let's be honest, would be a pretty bare record shelf if a no twats policy was enforced

[tony.parente]

This is the interview you guys are talking about right? The awkwardness starts at 1:51
@L'Acephale @WorzelG

[WorzelG]

EDIT: Yes, the hazing is in the book and whatever, but little to nothing negative about Trent.

You might want to ask yourself why Trent has always been the 'aggrieved' party in this matter, as with Al, as with everybody. They're not all wrong.

When has Trent ever been 'aggrieved' about Ministry though? Seriously I've never heard him diss Al ever and I've read a lot of interviews.
This is the last I heard about Al / Trent, and it was Al saying he had no beef with him, and people think there's a big feud, but there's not
http://radio.com/2013/10/25/6-things...ensens-memoir/

The Nine Inch Nails frontman was, at one time, a Revolting Cocks roadie, and as detailed in the book, took quite a lot of crap from the band. Years later, Al and Trent did a recording of a Black Sabbath cover together (“Supernaut”) as 1000 Homo DJs, and it’s all good between them. “You know what, I love Trent. I know people think we have this big feud. We don’t! It’s such bull****. I love Trent, I would love to work with him again if he ever wants to

[Demogorgon]

People who are young enough that the only things they know about artists who are supposedly "feuding" are what they've read on the internet should probably not bother to argue about it. Also, Trent and Al did a song or two together, back in the day. "Supernaut" as at least two, maybe three versions, and one of them does have Trent instead of Al, although they laced the vocals with a lot of effects to obscure it. Fact checking is important, kids.

[Conan The Barbarian]

Well here I thought, cool, the pale emperor is a good record and we will start to have a good convo in this thread. Then along came the provider modules.

[Space Suicide]

I'm so over this fucking Trent Reznor vs Marilyn Manson bullshit. Let it fucking die.

[SaintNoir]

Well here I thought, cool, the pale emperor is a good record and we will start to have a good convo in this thread. Then along came the provider modules.

I thought the same. Surprising number of people digging it. People who didn't were civil. And somehow it exploded into a NIN vs MM war. Fun times. I may have to duck out as I already experienced this stupid stuff back in the late 90s.

[WorzelG]

^^^i think the fault is 90:10 the provider module guy though - he's so patronising in tone he's just begging people to put him right