In the 90s, a lot of women who achieved national levels of recognition were written off as "crazy" or "bitch" or "stupid" or "sluts" or whatever, and decades later, that culture of misogyny appears in very stark relief when looking back with a modern eye at the celebrity gossip, late night talk shows, print press, and more.

That doesn't mean that everyone's suddenly a reliable narrator.

I largely kept my head out of this stupid fiasco, aside from adding some editorializing to the top of that Yahoo chat 'transcript' that got linked to last week.

I'm proud of the response here, it largely echoes my own thoughts on the topic. It would be a hell of a reckoning and astonishingly disappointing if something awful surfaced and was real, but as linked earlier, self-described groupies have spent decades looking for anything to give Trent a hard time, peaking when he finally got married. Nothing's come of it, and I'm not really surprised, given my own experiences at dozens and dozens of shows, and running a NIN news site for 20+ years.

There's better language to use when talking about Courtney Love. She can be right about somethings while still being demonstrably unreliable. She's clearly got demons of her own, and that's a real shame - and as these six pages cut from the other thread demonstrate, she's a highly effective chaos agent.

I've never met her, I don't expect that I ever will. I try not to let her take up any more of my attention than she already has. But then I also DGAF about TMZ or other celebrity gossip trash.

I often say I wouldn't wish fame on my worst enemy. Count this as one more reason why.

I don't want to lock this thread. I hope y'all will let it sink on its own.