Just tickles my balls!
Active Member
Originally Posted by cdm
Yes, because that's exactly what I've been saying. I don't blame the civilians, they are being heroic without a doubt. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote, because it's the second time you grossly misinterpret it.
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So you're suggesting that ordinary Ukrainian citizens are arming and putting themselves in harms way not because A. they fear for their lives B. fear for the lives of their families C. love their country but instead D. chasing western social media clout?
I mean here you are suggesting it's stupid for them to take up arms to defend themselves. I'd wager they feel they have a better chance at surviving by arming themselves than not and as such their motives aren't for me to judge. They'd rather be remembered for standing up to an invading force, apparently.
I, for one, am not supporting senseless deaths. I support their right to defend themselves as they see fit.
Stubby Member
You actually make some great points here; the first being "asking them to fight till the end", referring to civilians, especially considering Ukraine's Total military personnel, which is, according to globalfirepower.com (not sure if that's the best/greatest source) a total of 500,000 (250,000 reserve, 200,000 active and 50,000 paramilitary). Considering the circumstances and build-up, those forces should've been a little more prepared to defend key cities, but it seems as if they weren't since Zelensky almost immediately started asking for volunteers - which might've been done not because of the lack of military preparedness, but to bring the country together for war and to fight.
"the more I think about NATO weapon shipments, the less I understand the point of it" This also troubles me a lot, the amount of public information about what NATO country is supplying what military equipment is surprising and alarming at the same time - especially considering how little time this war has gone on. Wars can last for years, during those years various world powers can come into play because of the in-direct actions of other countries. Take a look at a time-line of WWI for instance, the overlapping alliances equates to a week worth of history class!
Also, thank you for making your post, I'm sure it wasn't easy to type, but it holds quite a bit of frankness!
Active Member
It's stupid for their leaders to bring them into a losing war as combatants and to people on social media to cheer for civilians being turned into combatants, which means they can be slaughtered by the opposing army.
I do not blame the individuals at the end of this chain who actually grab the weapons and the molotovs, but they should not have been put into that situation in the first place. That's all.
Only By Night
I find it absolutely ridiculous and disgusting that anyone in here would question the motives of people that have shown time and time again, how brave and passionate they are about their country during a war... It is their choice to fight and they seem to have no problem doing it. To say they are pretty much drones because people are "Egging them on" is such a crazy thing to say. Every Ukrainian that I have seen been interviewed or asked the question "If it came down to having to fight, would you?" Every single one of them had the same answer. So what are you even trying to say here?
It's very easy to make judgements when you're sitting on your comfy couch, being a keyboard warrior. Ffs man...
Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 03-04-2022 at 07:55 PM.
Active Member
Hard agree; anyone who wants to die for their country or otherwise should be allowed to. What I'm against is politicians urging civilians to do so and to a lesser extent forced conscription, and how in the media these politicians are portrayed as heroes.
There are currently more than 600 000 Ukranian immigrants, so maybe watch them being interviewed, because I have a hunch that those who immigrated would rather not die. Sadly, we will never have a number about how many people were forced or coerced into dying in this war without even being in the army. Do not glorify this shit and especially do not glorify the politicians who make the order.
Only By Night
^^^ Go kick rocks, you goof.
Bite me
They were, in effect, drafted.
We have had the draft in the U.S. (conscription), as well.
“All male U.S. citizens, regardless of where they live, and male immigrants, whether documented or undocumented, residing within the United States, who are 18 through 25 are required to register with the Selective Service System.”
The draft “has been employed by the federal government of the United States in six conflicts: the American Revolutionary War, the American Civil War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War.”
I remember boys (and I DO mean BOYS) being drafted into Vietnam. It was awful. I read stories about more positive attitudes toward conscription in WWI and WWII, ESPECIALLY WWII.
Ukraine is drafting ALL men between 18 and 60. No exceptions.
Considering that Putin has barely unleashed his military wrath onto Ukraine, the decision to force all Ukrainian men to stay and face brutal annihilation is also for Ukrainians to face … extinction.
If you look at the horrid brutality of Putin in Syria, Chechnya, Grozny, Allepo … Putin will not stop until he’s leveled all of Ukraine. His alleged desire is to make Ukraine a “buffer” between NATO countries and Russia, but he also wants total border access to the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. Which means he wants to annihilate all Ukrainian presence.
It’s genocide. And there simply are NOT enough Ukrainian men and women (or foreign volunteers) to go against Russian air power, which Putin has held back.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-...nows-no-bounds
People want David to slay Goliath, but … sad to say … this won’t end well.
Last edited by allegro; 03-05-2022 at 01:47 AM.
Active Member
So no comment on the 600 000+ immigrants, the forced conscriptions and the politicians urging their civilians to fight in a hopeless war, you'd just rather be content with the few interviews where people said they will gladly fight and use cognitive dissonance for these facts? Fair enough. I don't blame you for your views, I know that the US population have strong feelings about the military, and that some of you support or at least respect young people being coerced to die in (to the US) meaningless wars, but I definitely can't do that. I watch the charred corpses of teenagers from both sides and my first thought is not "damn, Putin and Zelensky are such heroes! One of them is so cool for attacking another country, and the other one is so cool for forcing or coercing his civilians to be cannon fodders! Respect!"
As fucking useless as my country's government is, being elbow deep in Putin's ass as well, at least we tend for the immigrants and try to help them instead of trying to send them back to the front. But you phrased it perfectly: "It's very easy to make judgements when you're sitting on your comfy couch, being a keyboard warrior." This is true for both of us, but I really don't get how my view, which is to spare as much innocent lives as possible, is being more controversial, than yours, which is fuck yeah, fight the good war bros, for the country and honor!
EXACTLY!!! This is what I'm talking about. I know that you (=US) still have some shady business with military, trying to coerce young people into the army, and I'm sure you have a lot of infighting about that, but at the very fucking least it's not mandatory. Young and gullible Americans still died and die needlessly, but it's still leagues more humane than forced conscription.
Last edited by Volband; 03-05-2022 at 01:02 AM.
Bite me
It’s uncomfortable for us Americans to see white Europeans being bullied by other white Europeans, so Americans want to see the bully lose.
But we forget that we blasted into Iraq - “hey, we are here to LIBERATE ALL OF YOU!! Aren’t you all HAPPY?” - and we murdered an estimated 150,000 innocent Iraqis and destroyed museums, historic architecture, artifacts, and tons of ancient history. Which looked an awful lot like bullying to many Iraqis and to the Muslim world.
We watched while Al-Assad and Putin murdered thousands of innocent people in Syria and caused a giant diaspora. But, it was no threat TO US.
Americans barely noticed as we provided arms to Saudi Arabia for their war in Yemen that has killed thousands of innocent people, and the Saudis have prevented humanitarian aid from coming into Yemen which resulted in over 85,000 children starving to death. But that was no threat TO US.
This one in Ukraine? It has NATO, the EU, DEFCON, everything that says “holy shit, this COULD BE A THREAT TO US!”
Which led to the refrain, “we are all Ukrainian, now.” Meaning, holy shit, Ukrainian people, please win this shit so that it doesn’t COME OVER HERE!!!
This is likely causing most of the underlying anxiety,
Like “How to Survive a Nuclear Attack” stuff that’s circulating.
The sad sad reality is that there is very likely going to be a point where Putin is going to unleash HORRORS beyond anything Americans can imagine (Putin doesn’t care about war crime consequences), and it’s going to cause horrible nightmares for people and children worldwide who have been watching this unfold, cheering for the “Good Guy” while naively misunderstanding that they are about to watch something very close to the Holocaust, live.
I told my husband the other day that I really don’t think Putin will stop with Ukraine. But, NATO is involved in a nuclear arms version of Chicken.
Personally, I have been breathing a sigh of relief at all of the people LEAVING Ukraine, and I wish MANY MANY MORE would leave.
We can get rid of Putin, later, and Ukrainians can move back home. But, you can’t survive a crazed maniac like that.
Last edited by allegro; 03-05-2022 at 01:51 AM.
Active Member
I don't think they would go as far as the US did in Vietnam, but I also feel that if they get too anxious about how the war is going, then they will do more drastic shit. The good news of today is that they apparently allowed a humanitarian corridors so that the civilians can leave from the cities being shelled. Sadly, this probably also means that the Russians can take their time.
Bite me
Putin is allowing people to leave because he’s going to DESTROY everything. He doesn’t want ANY Ukrainians there. The bullshit he’s saying about how Ukrainians are also Russians is a lie; he is shelling residential apartment buildings, schools, a CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL. He doesn’t think of Ukrainians as human.
If you look at the interviews of Russians (all age ranges) on the street being shown photographs from Ukraine - blown-up buildings, bodies, etc. - NONE of them believe Russia has anything to do with it. They are actually saying they believe the Ukraine army is bombing its own people. Because this is what they are told.
Putin has now banned Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, etc. in Russia, to lock out any outside information.
I hope Putin keeps the corridors open for a while, because it’s going to take a while to get millions more people out.
Last edited by allegro; 03-05-2022 at 02:09 AM.
Active Member
This blistering speech helped remind me that while Putin is a monster and of course needs to be taken down for this disgusting invasion, so are we for all the war crimes we are responsible for b/c of the horrible regimes we support & the violence they reign down on helpless people as well.
whole thing is great (also infuriating), but 3:02-6:35 is the real essence of it.
Stubby Member
Russia, the invader happens to have approximately 6,800 nuclear weapons... I don't think your analogy of someone breaking into your house breaking a bunch of stuff and defending it applies, unless of course that home invader happens to have... say, 6,800 fellow invaders armed with assault rifles, when you have ZERO.
Active Member
You're an idiot too.
Active Member
It's not the nukes per se, because the Russians won't use it, but they have a vastly bigger army. If someone can't comprehend that, then that person probably never seen or been in a fight in his life and lives in some fantasy where no matter how big the threat is, you can always win with the power of anime and friendship. Sadly, we have HD footage that says otherwise.
And so much for the humanitarian corridor: Russia just nonchalantly breached it and started shelling again. The infrastructure is non-existent in Mariupol and they are running out of food as well.
Active Member
I really hope someone just takes Putin out on their side
Active Member
Lyndsey Graham seems to think so too. ::MASSIVE EYEROLL::
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084548984/lindsey-graham-putin
Do y'all just not understand how global politics works or what? If anyone "took out" Putin that would make the entire situation SIGNIFICANTLY worse for EVERYONE.
Administrator
i know you can discuss this topic and keep it civil. there’s no need to be insulting or result to name calling. i believe in you, ets.
Bite me
The catastrophic humanitarian crisis that is looming is going to be particularly problematic.
There will be HUGE issues of shortages of food and water.
There are children from a cancer hospital and babies from a Neo-Natal Intensive Care Unit in subway bomb shelters. There’s no good method of transportation to get them out of there; not right now, anyway. The closest border is MANY hours away. Russia is shooting at trains with people on them who are trying to escape. They’re shooting at cars with families in them.
I saw a photo of a dead dad on the ground, next to his Honda vehicle; bystanders had covered his body with clothing. Report said he and his wife and child were driving to Lviv when they were hit by Russian gunfire (obvious damage to vehicle shown). Wife and child were being given treatment at a medical facility.
But the family German Shepherd was sitting there by the car and his master, waiting.
Re palace intrigue and “taking Putin out” etc.:
Allegedly, there have been at LEAST 20 foiled assassination attempts on Putin. He once got advice about how to avoid assassination from Fidel Castro (who avoided over 200 assassination attempts). So, nobody is going to be able to take out Putin except maybe high cholesterol or Putin’s liver.
Last edited by allegro; 03-05-2022 at 08:22 PM.
Stubby Member
Oh please, your home invader analogy was so ignorant I just HAD to post.. and I don't post often, but I love coming to the forums daily.
Active Member
Had some more communication from my friend in Poland. Poland has taken in 800,000 refugees since the war started & the number is rising rapidly. Also, when Russia started firing missiles at the nuclear reactor many in Poland started taking iodine tablets in case their is a fire like Chernobyl. Things are getting uglier in Europe, especially the east & the north.
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You really think the average Ukrainian citizen factors in the nuclear option when deciding whether or not to defend their country? It is HIGHLY unlikely Putin would use nuclear anything in Ukraine. Not strategic, not tactical. He's greedy, not mad.Oh please, your home invader analogy was so ignorant I just HAD to post.. and I don't post often, but I love coming to the forums daily.
Bite me
He appears to be a bit of both right now. He’s taken Russia from an authoritarian state to a totalitarian state in about a week. But, I don’t think he’s going to shoot off a bunch of nuclear weapons, either. Because he knows that we have them, too.
That being said, war comes at a very very very high cost, and the entire world is suffering from the costs of Covid right now. It’s an unknown as to whether or not even the U.S. has the money to sustain entering into a conventional war with Russia (for protecting Ukrainian airspace). NATO, same thing. And, if we do that, NATO isn’t likely to have our back.
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Bite me
I JUST came here to post that!!
Excellent Twitter thread.
Last edited by allegro; 03-06-2022 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Added quote
Active Member
I was nobody. Nothing.
I'm with you.
And a lot of the meanness and faceplams directed at a certain person - I feel like some of it isn't warranted.
He has his ideas, and he's a few HUNDRED miles from this conflict, as opposed to several THOUSAND.
( @Volband I mean )
Last edited by elevenism; 03-06-2022 at 11:34 PM.
(Unused symbol)
There's a Joe Biden CSPAN clip floating around from 1997 or some shit about NATO expansion east and the associated threat to Russia as if it somehow related to the present day conflict...don't fall for that shit.
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