Random score thoughts

[WorzelG]

I have no idea what the pay is for scoring a major studio film but to call anything they've done "a cash-grab" would be kind of insulting given the amount of effort we know they put into it. They've commented on Patriot's Day and Birdbox and how both left a sour taste...does that sound like the words of someone looking for easy cash? Doesn't really make a difference to me who likes what but "cash grab" comes with a connotation that automatically puts words in mouths. If you don't like that pick a different phrase.

Out of interest, where did you read the bit about Patriots Day leaving a sour taste? I thought TR said something to the effect that people should go see the film as it’s better than they think it would be?

[cdm]

Out of interest, where did you read the bit about Patriots Day leaving a sour taste? I thought TR said something to the effect that people should go see the film as it’s better than they think it would be?

Now you have me doubting my memory but I'm certain I would have read something linked here. I vaguely remember them being disappointed with the promotion and support for the film and score but I could be wrong. I'm happy to be corrected.

[Toadflax]

Out of interest, where did you read the bit about Patriots Day leaving a sour taste? I thought TR said something to the effect that people should go see the film as it’s better than they think it would be?

Now you have me doubting my memory but I'm certain I would have read something linked here. I vaguely remember them being disappointed with the promotion and support for the film and score but I could be wrong. I'm happy to be corrected.

From nin.com: "ALTERNATELY MEDITATIVE AND INCREDIBLY STRESS-INDUCING, THE LATEST SCORE FROM TRENT AND ATTICUS. THE FILM IS BETTER THAN YOU ARE EXPECTING AND THE SCORE OF COURSE IS AWESOME."

But I think there's a bit of reading between the lines we can do about how effusive they are about certain projects compared to others. They've expressed admiration for David Fincher, Ken Burns, Damon Lindelof, Trey Edward Shults, Luca Guadagnino, and Pete Docter. Even someone like Sam Mendes has enough cred that they don't have to explain why they might want to work with him. That leaves a small number of scores (Patriots Day, Bird Box, Mid90s) where it just kind of seems like the timing was right for them to take on the project vs. them really seeking it out. That doesn't mean the movies and/or scores can't be good, but it's fair to say they may have been less excited to work on some things than others.

That said, I'm in love with the things they've taken on that feel out of left field. Mank, Soul, some of the old-timey Watchmen stuff, and the Halsey record have all been so impressive in terms of how much they were able to go outside of their comfort zone and still deliver something great. So I'm in a place to be excited by whatever unexpected thing they do next, as I'm sure it keeps them feeling creatively motivated and so far has led to nothing but stellar work.

[cdm]

From nin.com: "ALTERNATELY MEDITATIVE AND INCREDIBLY STRESS-INDUCING, THE LATEST SCORE FROM TRENT AND ATTICUS. THE FILM IS BETTER THAN YOU ARE EXPECTING AND THE SCORE OF COURSE IS AWESOME."

But I think there's a bit of reading between the lines we can do about how effusive they are about certain projects compared to others.

Again, I'm leaning on my increasingly faulty memory here but I think this would have been an anecdote from more recently, possibly relating or in reference to whether or not we'd ever see a vinyl release. But I've scoured most of the threads that might contain it and I'm coming up empty.

[fillow]

Out of interest, where did you read the bit about Patriots Day leaving a sour taste? I thought TR said something to the effect that people should go see the film as it’s better than they think it would be?

I don't remember there being any promotion of the film/score from TR/AR at all, unlike other releases. But I seem to remember there was something said by TR in some later interview between the lines. Something like "most of our scoring experiences were pretty great, but some not so much" (paraphrasing here), and Patriots Day at the time was the only candidate for this by simple elimination. He had nothing but positive things to say about Fincher films, Before the Flood and Vietnam War.

[Something Underneath]

From nin.com: "ALTERNATELY MEDITATIVE AND INCREDIBLY STRESS-INDUCING, THE LATEST SCORE FROM TRENT AND ATTICUS. THE FILM IS BETTER THAN YOU ARE EXPECTING AND THE SCORE OF COURSE IS AWESOME."

But I think there's a bit of reading between the lines we can do about how effusive they are about certain projects compared to others. They've expressed admiration for David Fincher, Ken Burns, Damon Lindelof, Trey Edward Shults, Luca Guadagnino, and Pete Docter. Even someone like Sam Mendes has enough cred that they don't have to explain why they might want to work with him. That leaves a small number of scores (Patriots Day, Bird Box, Mid90s) where it just kind of seems like the timing was right for them to take on the project vs. them really seeking it out. That doesn't mean the movies and/or scores can't be good, but it's fair to say they may have been less excited to work on some things than others.

That said, I'm in love with the things they've taken on that feel out of left field. Mank, Soul, some of the old-timey Watchmen stuff, and the Halsey record have all been so impressive in terms of how much they were able to go outside of their comfort zone and still deliver something great. So I'm in a place to be excited by whatever unexpected thing they do next, as I'm sure it keeps them feeling creatively motivated and so far has led to nothing but stellar work.

Well speaking on Bird Box I think the idea of parenthood in apocalyptic times probably appealed to Trent and the movie was supposed to be more cerebral. I think he called the final product bad but he mentioned that the initial idea was way more promising. And it got a prestige vinyl release and was one of the longest scores. So really even with the shit movies there's clearly passion and honesty involved. Nothing is taken just for the sake of working.

[Toadflax]

Well speaking on Bird Box I think the idea of parenthood in apocalyptic times probably appealed to Trent and the movie was supposed to be more cerebral. I think he called the final product bad but he mentioned that the initial idea was way more promising. And it got a prestige vinyl release and was one of the longest scores. So really even with the shit movies there's clearly passion and honesty involved. Nothing is taken just for the sake of working.

Yeah, totally. We know they don't take projects they're not interested in and as in the case of Woman in the Window, are even open to leaving a project after putting a lot of work into it.

[cdm]

I don't remember there being any promotion of the film/score from TR/AR at all, unlike other releases. But I seem to remember there was something said by TR in some later interview between the lines. Something like "most of our scoring experiences were pretty great, but some not so much" (paraphrasing here), and Patriots Day at the time was the only candidate for this by simple elimination. He had nothing but positive things to say about Fincher films, Before the Flood and Vietnam War.

Yes, this sounds very familiar.

[Deacon Blackfire]

I don't remember there being any promotion of the film/score from TR/AR at all, unlike other releases. But I seem to remember there was something said by TR in some later interview between the lines. Something like "most of our scoring experiences were pretty great, but some not so much" (paraphrasing here), and Patriots Day at the time was the only candidate for this by simple elimination. He had nothing but positive things to say about Fincher films, Before the Flood and Vietnam War.

Thank you, was coming here to post exactly this. It was nothing specific but reading between the lines sure made it seem like they weren't thrilled with how it turned out. They were tactful enough to avoid mentioning Patriots Day directly (unlike Bird Box which TR was so irritated about he had no qualms with slinging shit), but as you say, in an interview from 2017 or 2018 (I can't seem to find the specific one at the moment) TR mentioned how not all of their scoring experiences were ideal and how they've had learning experiences as to what to pursue / avoid in prospective future projects and considering their limited to nonexistent press for Patriots Day and their generally glowing thoughts on their other scoring collaborations at that point, the process of elimination left little doubt that Patriots Day was the one they felt iffy on. And frankly I was kind of glad that they seemingly had misgivings on that project. I hardly expect them to exclusively score films I am eager to see, but scoring someone like Peter Berg's take on the Boston Marathon bombing just seemed like a bad move for people like them who aren't exactly looking to endorse copaganda.

To bring us back to Turtles and the questionable talking points above, I wouldn't begrudge anyone, certainly no adult, having zero interest in a film for kids, but treating "for kids" as an indicator of poor quality, or an indicator that any involvement on TR/AR's part must be a "sell-out" move, is pretty silly. They can make as many Batman movies for adults as they want but the best damn adaptation is still probably The Animated Series and Mask of the Phantasm, media created for kids more than anyone else. Doesn't mean it can't be entertaining and rewarding for adults too. And if you don't care about it or think it looks too silly for you, that's fine! I would love it if everything TR/AR scored was something I was dying to see but that simply isn't reality, and when they do something I'm not interested in my disinterest doesn't immediately make that project a simple cash-grab, nothing more.

Trent has like five kids, some very young - is it really that surprising that he'd be excited to work on a project he can show his whole family, especially after the kids movie they last worked on was met with critical acclaim and won them their second Oscar?

[Toadflax]

To bring us back to Turtles and the questionable talking points above, I wouldn't begrudge anyone, certainly no adult, having zero interest in a film for kids, but treating "for kids" as an indicator of poor quality, or an indicator that any involvement on TR/AR's part must be a "sell-out" move, is pretty silly. They can make as many Batman movies for adults as they want but the best damn adaptation is still probably The Animated Series and Mask of the Phantasm, media created for kids more than anyone else. Doesn't mean it can't be entertaining and rewarding for adults too. And if you don't care about it or think it looks too silly for you, that's fine! I would love it if everything TR/AR scored was something I was dying to see but that simply isn't reality, and when they do something I'm not interested in my disinterest doesn't immediately make that project a simple cash-grab, nothing more.

Trent has like five kids, some very young - is it really that surprising that he'd be excited to work on a project he can show his whole family, especially after the kids movie they last worked on was met with critical acclaim and won them their second Oscar?

I'm on your side, but to be fair to the complainers, they didn't say it was surprising, just that they personally didn't like it. (They just used some dickish language to say it.)

I totally get being turned off when an artist has kids and then starts making kid stuff to appease them. The artist can of course do whatever they want, but it's not going to gel with all their fans. But in the case of TR/AR, yes we all want a new NIN album, but we're getting such a broad spectrum of stuff in the meantime that I find it weird for people to be annoyed that not everything is for them. Like, okay, sorry if you don't like TMNT, but here's a new Fincher score for you. Sorry if you don't like Soul or Mank, but here's Watchmen. It would be one thing if they were just doing one thing, but they're constantly doing new stuff, which I find pretty great.

[DVYDRNS]

To be fair. I never said I don't like the scores. There are plenty that I do enjoy. That fit with what I liked about reznor as an artist in the first place.

There are some NIN records that I dgaf about as well. I think hesitation marks is trash. As well as some of the with teeth and tear zero era. But overall I still tuned in to check them all out and participate in the fandom.

I was just pointing out that there are more current projects that I don't care about than I do in recent years.

I always loved reznors work because it was a big middle finger to the system that I never bought into. It resonated with me.

Now it feels like he's choosing projects that are very much a part of the system. And of course that's absolutely his prerogative. The only point I was making is that to me it feels insincere. And it's not what I became a fan for.

I'm not whining. I'm not complaining. I'm having a discussion on a message board. Or at least was trying to.

[BRoswell]

I would love it if everything TR/AR scored was something I was dying to see but that simply isn't reality, and when they do something I'm not interested in my disinterest doesn't immediately make that project a simple cash-grab, nothing more.

Exactly how I feel. I've listened to the scores for Empire Of Light and Soul, but god knows if I'll ever get around to actually watching those films. I don't even know if I'll get around to watching the TMNT film, but I still can respect why they've worked on those films.

And for the record, you can't really say "fuck the system" while spending most of your career on major labels. That doesn't mean that Trent & Atticus have been insincere this whole time, but it's an unavoidable fact.

[DVYDRNS]

Touché.

I agree with that.

I also think he lucked out during a time when record labels had no idea what would sell. Thus his ability to be on those big labels while doing what he wanted to do. But I digress.

[botley]

I always loved reznors work because it was a big middle finger to the system that I never bought into. It resonated with me.

Now it feels like he's choosing projects that are very much a part of the system. And of course that's absolutely his prerogative. The only point I was making is that to me it feels insincere. And it's not what I became a fan for.

Again, you're entitled to your feelings about this, but it doesn't seem to map onto a real critique of the art. Art is art, but it is always enmeshed in and complicated by political and economic forces. Those always change over time, and the artist is never standing still. "The system" that TR may have railed against thirty years ago does not exist in the same way anymore, things have moved on. I try and judge the film score work on the merits of what it's setting out to achieve, within both the parameters of the movie and as a standalone audio release. For me it's rare that they've missed the mark on either count, even when the film they're scoring is exploitative, derivative, or flat-out corny. I'm half-expecting Mutant Mayhem to be all three, but I'm keeping an open mind.

[WorzelG]

I think it’s a bit harsh to say lack of press meant they had issues with the Patriots Day people. I think the film being a flop and having no Oscar chances and a bit problematic in subject was more of a reason for that. And even though they had a crap time scoring, Bird Box was a Netflix smash if I remember rightly hence why it got more love in form of a physical release

[Deacon Blackfire]

I don't think Null 09 getting a physical release had anything to do with the success of Bird Box - TR actually acknowledged the movie being a huge hit on Netflix but was not exactly happy about it!

"When we got immersed in it, it felt like some people were phoning it in. And you're stuck with a film editor who had real bad taste. That's kind of our barricade to getting stuff in the film. And the final icing on the shit cake was we were on tour when they mixed it. And they mixed the music so low, you couldn't hear it anyway. So it was like, that was a ...(laughs) That was a fucking waste of time. Then we thought, no one's going to see this fucking movie. And, of course, it's the hugest movie ever in Netflix."

My impression was that the Bird Box sessions got a plush, nifty vinyl release because, regardless of how they felt the final film turned out, they wanted to honor the mountain of music they composed for it in a way they felt the movie did not. I mean they clearly put a lot into it, burning any extra time they had composing it between dates of the 2018 Cold And Black And Infinite Tour, and were clearly very proud of the music (and dissatisfied with its final home). Makes perfect sense to me - I've never watched Bird Box because of bad buzz like this but the expanded score especially is quite magnificent and has some really brilliantly disturbing stuff. I'm still waiting with fingers crossed for TR/AR to one day score a real true blue horror film worthy of their talents, but until that glorious day, their deeply disquieting work on the Null 09 sessions makes it clear that they are the future ingredient to a potential masterpiece of terror.

[botley]

They have done a bunch of really excellent scores for movies where the 'needledrop' source music plays a huge part (Bones and All, Waves, mid90s) and the thing I suppose I'm most interested in about Mutant Mayhem is how well it strikes that balance between familiar music and their identifiable trademark sound.

[gorast]

Thank you, was coming here to post exactly this. It was nothing specific but reading between the lines sure made it seem like they weren't thrilled with how it turned out. They were tactful enough to avoid mentioning Patriots Day directly (unlike Bird Box which TR was so irritated about he had no qualms with slinging shit), but as you say, in an interview from 2017 or 2018 (I can't seem to find the specific one at the moment) TR mentioned how not all of their scoring experiences were ideal and how they've had learning experiences as to what to pursue / avoid in prospective future projects and considering their limited to nonexistent press for Patriots Day and their generally glowing thoughts on their other scoring collaborations at that point, the process of elimination left little doubt that Patriots Day was the one they felt iffy on. And frankly I was kind of glad that they seemingly had misgivings on that project. I hardly expect them to exclusively score films I am eager to see, but scoring someone like Peter Berg's take on the Boston Marathon bombing just seemed like a bad move for people like them who aren't exactly looking to endorse copaganda.

To bring us back to Turtles and the questionable talking points above, I wouldn't begrudge anyone, certainly no adult, having zero interest in a film for kids, but treating "for kids" as an indicator of poor quality, or an indicator that any involvement on TR/AR's part must be a "sell-out" move, is pretty silly. They can make as many Batman movies for adults as they want but the best damn adaptation is still probably The Animated Series and Mask of the Phantasm, media created for kids more than anyone else. Doesn't mean it can't be entertaining and rewarding for adults too. And if you don't care about it or think it looks too silly for you, that's fine! I would love it if everything TR/AR scored was something I was dying to see but that simply isn't reality, and when they do something I'm not interested in my disinterest doesn't immediately make that project a simple cash-grab, nothing more.

Trent has like five kids, some very young - is it really that surprising that he'd be excited to work on a project he can show his whole family, especially after the kids movie they last worked on was met with critical acclaim and won them their second Oscar?

The interview you're thinking of is probably this Variety one, where the interviewer tries to latch onto Trent's oblique reference to scoring processes he wasn't quite satisfied with and did manage to squeeze something of substance out of him about it. Since it was 2018, you'd rule out the Fincher films, Before the Flood and Vietnam War (since he frequently talked positively about both), and mid90s (since it had literally just come out), which left Patriots Day as the only option that made sense.

[Deacon Blackfire]

Yep that's the one, thanks!

[Zimbo]

They have done a bunch of really excellent scores for movies where the 'needledrop' source music plays a huge part (Bones and All, Waves, mid90s) and the thing I suppose I'm most interested in about Mutant Mayhem is how well it strikes that balance between familiar music and their identifiable trademark sound.

Great take. I am hoping Seth asked them to sound more like NIN like Lindeloff did. That tension and buildup, mmmmm

[sonic_discord]

Apparently David Fincher is working on a Se7en TV series for Netflix! I wonder if TR & AR will be involved with this, too. He used an edit of "Closer (Precursor)" in the original after all...

[BRoswell]

Apparently David Fincher is working on a Se7en TV series for Netflix! I wonder if TR & AR will be involved with this, too. He used an edit of "Closer (Precursor)" in the original after all...

"This news comes to us via Giant Freakin Robot."

So...probably not true.

[Damage]

Apparently David Fincher is working on a Se7en TV series for Netflix! I wonder if TR & AR will be involved with this, too. He used an edit of "Closer (Precursor)" in the original after all...

Hard to see that since he couldn't finish Mindhunter.

[Frozen Beach]

I wonder if TR & AR will ever do a video game score? I think the last time was 2012 for Call of Duty Black Ops 2, and it was only the main theme.

[gorast]

I wonder if TR & AR will ever do a video game score? I think the last time was 2012 for Call of Duty Black Ops 2, and it was only the main theme.

I always found it a little odd that that theme wasn't credited to both of them - Atticus has an additional production credit, though. Maybe it was just that Trent made the theme and Atticus added to it afterwards, as opposed to collaborating the entire time.

[Avarik]

I wonder if TR & AR will ever do a video game score? I think the last time was 2012 for Call of Duty Black Ops 2, and it was only the main theme.

Bethesda has yet to reboot Quake ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[thelastdisciple]

Bethesda has yet to reboot Quake ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

More puzzling is that the remastered score from the vinyl release didn't even get included for the remaster of the game.

[Avarik]

More puzzling is that the remastered score from the vinyl release didn't even get included for the remaster of the game.

Is it still music-less? The PC version has been without music ever since the Steam edition that didn't require a CD-ROM drive.

[thelastdisciple]

Is it still music-less? The PC version has been without music ever since the Steam edition that didn't require a CD-ROM drive.

No not since the remaster came out in summer 2021.

[Zimbo]

With the writer's strike, can they make more nin please?