With Teeth Demos???

[Ryan]

Absolutely. The text from those Bleedthrough-era nin.com pages suggests an embryonic version of the idea that fuelled the ARG was in progress as early as 2004. You could point to even-older versions of the website, too. It's something they were working on for a long, long time.

Plus the Year Zero flag logo in The Slip album art. It all seems quite elaborate and intertwined. I love that shit.

[fakdoo]

This also says that the original title for EDIETS was 'Premonition'.

[butter_hole]

I wanna hear this

http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwe...16210629&SID=2

[allegro]

Absolutely. The text from those Bleedthrough-era nin.com pages suggests an embryonic version of the idea that fuelled the ARG was in progress as early as 2004. You could point to even-older versions of the website, too. It's something they were working on for a long, long time.

Remember back when the original Bleedthrough concept was supposedly inspired by this book?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lathe_of_Heaven

[mfte]

Didnt With Teeth demos evolve into the final versions that we know?

I remember reading an interview where he said that he went to a real studio to record vocals but they were missing the raw vibe of when he was demoing them... and then ended up keeping the original takes.

[screwdriver]

I heard one of those "friend of a friend" tales from someone who supposedly worked with Trent and listened to the demos, saying they were nothing like the finished product. Trent did remark early on the album was going to be something like "13 hard punches to the face", which I think we all can agree, With Teeth was not. Can't say if there is any truth to the story though.

I'm resurrecting this thread (as opposed to a new one) because I popped in With Teeth today and just wanted to opine that it is so criminally underrated. When this thing is loud, I think 13 hard punches to the face is spot on. I think its the last NIN album I liked unreservedly. it makes me long for TR to get back to writing pop songs.

[gorast]

With Teeth really is a good album. It's the one that started the formula of "drums first, build everything on top of that after eight bars", but the songs on it are still damn good. Back when I was really getting into NIN, With Teeth was the album that pulled me in all the way.

[Highly Psychological]

At the time to me it all sounded rather NIN-Lite. It has its moments, but it lacked a certain force, it to me is never truly exhilarating.,all sounds a bit flat. Trent sounded for some reason like he was playing it safe, holding back, which is not why i got into NIN.
Its hard to believe its from the same guy who wrote The Becoming. However Sunspots in particular and, Collector and Getting Smaller are good and the track With Teeth sounded better live, so something was still there.
Think people had absurdly high expectations, it came after two groundbreaking masterpiece's.

But i understand and respect and think its just because Trent was in a very different place in his life. It was an album about Addiction. He was sober and i think it makes a bigger difference to an artist than people realize. People's music changes because in sobriety they change immensely. Before hand him being a functional addict i presume he translated a lot of his turmoil and confusion into his art. When he got Sober he would have found other more constructive ways of outleting his emotions, his way was not working. He probably dealt with things that had bugged him his whole life, so the desperate need to translate this negative force into his music probably was not as strong. Probably why it lacks a certain force other NIN records had. Its just a very different man in a different place. Before hand it was a tidal wave of manic intense emotion, it was powerful art because it sounded like it was capturing someone totally fucked up in the head on the verge but with immense prodigal musical and songwriting skills. With sobriety and vital help and support from people and working on himself which he needed the manic energy, desperate need for total perfectionism died down and was probably just not there so much. At least it didn't sound like he was trying to be the same person from The Downward Spiral. He was being honest as to where he was at. Its just a record capturing him in a different place. A place not as intense.
It in hindsight seems like an awkward transitional album, maybe he was adjusting to making music in a new head space, Year Zero sounded more confident and was way more fun and much better in my opinion.

[neorev]

love With Teeth... last good NIN album throughout for me
i found Year Zero to be a bit boring and rarely ever listen to it
i listen to The Slip more so than Year Zero.

[Conan The Barbarian]

^ says the guy with the survivalism avi

[DigitalChaos]

Bleedthrough is a theme that still exists in With Teeth: he mentions a desire for the audio to bleed through different tracks, and so we have all the songs mentioning each other, sharing phrases and even mentioning PHM (in the case of Only). I keep forgetting to write up a master post for how all the songs link.

I went to click "like this post" only to realize I liked it many months ago. DO THIS!!!

[screwdriver]

Remember back when the original Bleedthrough concept was supposedly inspired by this book?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lathe_of_Heaven

Like Adam Willis there, I read the book inspired by the original postings. It was an interesting book. I'm glad that the album wasn't a conceptual telling of that story, though.

[buckaroo]

even though i have a strong connection to the pretty hatemachine through downward spiral era ,for nostalgic reasons, i would be the mostinterested in hearing unreleased material and demos from with teeth (secondonly to the fragile of course). with teethis a little odd. i feel like the middleof the album is sort of weak, but in the end it has some of trent's best work hands down (all the love in theworld, the line begins to blur, besides you in time, right where it belongs,home, non-entity). i think it suffersfrom being too safe at times. even tradinga couple tracks for the b-side would have done wonders in my opinion. considering how great the b-sides are for thatalbum i would love to hear more. i justfeel like it could have been so much more if it had leaned a little more on the"artsy" side and had a bit grittier sound. still love it though.

[screwdriver]

out of curiousity, which b-sides are you thinking of? home is really strong, I agree, but non-entity is sort of eh and the less said about not so pretty now the better...

[gorast]

I think Home and Non-Entity would've worked well on the album, personally.

[eversonpoe]

Like Adam Willis there, I read the book inspired by the original postings. It was an interesting book. I'm glad that the album wasn't a conceptual telling of that story, though.

there are two film versions of it, as well. the original (made in the 70s) was amazing, the remake was decent. if you enjoyed the book, check out the movie.

[buckaroo]

out of curiousity, which b-sides are you thinking of? home is really strong, I agree, but non-entity is sort of eh and the less said about not so pretty now the better...

home and non-entity. i think those 2 songs are better than the majority of the actual album and really seemed to fit with the vibe of the better tracks on it. i agree that not so pretty now is pretty weak. i wonder if there are outtakes from those sessions in the same vein as home and non-entity.

[screwdriver]

home and non-entity. i think those 2 songs are better than the majority of the actual album and really seemed to fit with the vibe of the better tracks on it. i agree that not so pretty now is pretty weak. i wonder if there are outtakes from those sessions in the same vein as home and non-entity.

interesting. disagree about them being stronger than majority of album, except Home is damn fine... I think its an incredibly muscular, impressive sounding album, excepting the collector, which is a totally killer sounding song but the lyrics hurt my soul. Oddly enough, I think "Only" feels TOTALLY out of place, sonically speaking, even though I love the shit out of the song

[neorev]

^ says the guy with the survivalism avi

ahahah touche

it was the best avatar! :P

i wish we could upload our own avatars instead

[jessamineny]

Donate $5 to the site and you can. Go to Settings and then Paid Subscriptions. Settings is then where you can upload your own avatar.

[screwdriver]

Out of curiosity, has anyone come up with where home and non-entity might fit into a with teeth hypothetical album? I guess Home went after Sunspots on vinyl, but I really like the Sunspots into The Line Begins to Blur. I could see Non-Entity going after THTF, maybe swapping out Only for Home.

[_incoma_]

Non-Entity Makes sense Between With Teeth and Only to me at least.

[screwdriver]

Non-Entity Makes sense Between With Teeth and Only to me at least.

interesting -- I tried putting it after You Know What You Are and it worked well. I'll give it a shot. The mixing on Non-Entity distracts me, as it sounds sort of unfinished compared to the rest of the album -- ninwiki says Alan Moulder mixed, does anyone know the source for that? curious as to when...

Home between Sunspots and TLBTB as on the vinyl surprised me by working pretty well.

[joplinpicasso]

Love With Teeth.

[gorast]

interesting -- I tried putting it after You Know What You Are and it worked well. I'll give it a shot. The mixing on Non-Entity distracts me, as it sounds sort of unfinished compared to the rest of the album -- ninwiki says Alan Moulder mixed, does anyone know the source for that? curious as to when...

Home between Sunspots and TLBTB as on the vinyl surprised me by working pretty well.

Do we know if Non-Entity and Not So Pretty Now were mixed at the same time as the rest of the album? Trent might've shipped them off for a quick mix so they'd be ready for the NIN/JA sampler.

[jmtd]

Do we know if Non-Entity and Not So Pretty Now were mixed at the same time as the rest of the album? Trent might've shipped them off for a quick mix so they'd be ready for the NIN/JA sampler.

I always assumed they were recorded and mixed at the NIN/JA tour time… but the studio pictures could just have been mixing sessions.

[butter_hole]

I always assumed they were recorded and mixed at the NIN/JA tour time… but the studio pictures could just have been mixing sessions.

the studio pictures were the recordings of the JA tracks.

[fillow]

The songs were definitely recorded during WT sessions. Non-Entity even credits Dave Grohl on drums. Not sure about mixing though.

[screwdriver]

The songs were definitely recorded during WT sessions. Non-Entity even credits Dave Grohl on drums. Not sure about mixing though.

yeah, ninwiki says moulder mixed but there is no source provided. curious!

[millhouse]

Does anyone have any information regarding the initial release of the With Teeth-era rehearsals? There were a couple of sets of 3 tracks, a 15 track set, and a 14 track set, along with a few others IIRC.

Anyone remember?