Controversial Music Opinions...

[Exocet]

I don’t get this idea. There’s songs on Appetite for Destruction that I think are way more ‘punk’ sounding than Nevermind. I think Nirvana may have hit the spot but it was all BULLSHIT way more than GNR. If you want decadence can you get any worse than Nirvana ? All the heroin abuse and hypocrisy of we don’t want to be popular but we’ll go on every late night show and award show and marry Courtney fucking Love with all the publicity bullshit that entails. I mean Axl Rose never spawned a child into that bullshit at least. Just hypocrisy. The entire Seattle scene came across like awful backstabbing shit. I think they would have been found out if he hadn’t killed himself (or whatever happened according to Buzz Osborne) but he killed himself and thus it was Saint Cobain for evermore and not a word can be said against them or you’re speaking ill of the dead

loads of Punk bands used to play on mainstream television, it's how they got their records heard pre internet, think of Sex Pistols saying Fuck on daytime TV In 1976. a grasping trashy IT girl like Courtney Love getting involved was Kurt's personality disorder not the band.they would have divorced a year or so later anyway. The Seattle scene was really good I thought, i been getting into the really early stuff recently, from 1985-89 Melvins, Green River, Tad, Mother LoveBone, it's not really punk it's very Led Zeppelin esque.
Kurt was into loads of Scottish indie bands like the Vaselines, Young Marble Giants the Pastles and Teenage Fanclub, aswell as the obvious underground US punk bands of the 1980s.

Alice in Chains were best Seattle band of all time though, Dirt is so hard hitting, I cant think of another music scene where Heroin played such a massive role.it must have been everywhere.

[allegro]

I cant think of another music scene where Heroin played such a massive role.it must have been everywhere.

The New York punk scene in the 70s. Heroin was everywhere.

Read this book, it’s really good:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0802125360...E8P9JNMZXB8401

[elevenism]

GNR may have been a street level band for a minute but by the time UYI came around, they were a bloated circus carnival act and were a real life Spinal Tap

Kurt always said his biggest regret was making Nevermind sound so commercial. Thats why In Utero was so raw and abrasive. I think Kurt would have been much happier if Nirvana were successful on Sonic Youth/Dinosaur Jr indie rock levels. The worst thing that happened to them was becoming the biggest band in the world.

I mean, it was bad for THEM. And it might have been what killed Kurt. So, you're 100% right, on the one hand.
And if that IS what killed Kurt, the exposure, then, there's no argument.
But, on the other hand, they gave SO many people SO much great music.

As I type that, though...it's a weak argument.

The entire rock landscape would be different, but, yeah.
Nirvana as a slightly obscure band, who made money and had a small passionate following, and one radio song, PROBABLY would have meant a whole lot more Nirvana records.

[burnmotherfucker!]

Here's another hot one. That's just about the best Nirvana song, right there.

I haven't heard Pod in a LONG time; I'm gonna listen to it again, and Safari.

True story I hated Tourettes the first time I heard it but its so short I never skipped it every time I'd listen to In Utero and now somedays it's my favorite track on the album.

Pod probably isn't their best album but it's really stripped back in a good way. Plus, I was a Pixies fan before I heard the Breeders and it felt like a whole album in a similar style to Gigantic.

[burnmotherfucker!]

And I heard it playing REALLY loud at a bar in Wrigleyville via a jukebox or something. And some dude jumped onto a table or something and lost his fucking mind ... and I went, holy shit. Holy shit. THIS SONG IS GONNA CHANGE EVERYTHING. Timing is everything.

To me, nothing has ever captured the feeling of a door being kicked in better than that opening riff.

[Swykk]

Can someone explain why “Bittersweet Symphony” by The Verve was (maybe still is?) so beloved?

It’s such a boring, lazy, and repetitive slog. I have never understood the appeal.

[eachpassingphase]

Can someone explain why “Bittersweet Symphony” by The Verve was (maybe still is?) so beloved?

It’s such a boring, lazy, and repetitive slog. I have never understood the appeal.

I gotta admit, most of my affection for that song was because of how perfectly placed it was in the Cruel Intentions movie.

But agreed- it’s not a terribly imaginative song to be honest. Even ignoring the lifted sample that they got sued for.


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[piggy]

I personally think it's three things: the lyrics ring very true, the beat is pretty awesome, and the string sample feels uplifting.

[Swykk]

The lyrics are one of the reasons I hate it so much. It’s cliche and obvious—It’s the “Hang In There” cat motivational poster. And the way the chorus is delivered makes me think, “Was that dude even really present when he sang this in the studio?” It’s bad. Like, nobody told him, “Maybe we try that another way. It sounds like you’re saying ‘You can Jack and gin Jack, gin Jack gin.’”
It’s astounding that got by the band, a producer, etc.

[Magnetic]

Can someone explain why “Bittersweet Symphony” by The Verve was (maybe still is?) so beloved?

It’s such a boring, lazy, and repetitive slog. I have never understood the appeal.

Yah, I don't get it either. I always liked a Storm in Heaven, and thought any song off that album was better than the ripoff which lead to their downfall.

[Dryalex12]

Yah, I don't get it either. I always liked a Storm in Heaven, and thought any song off that album was better than the ripoff which lead to their downfall.

What do you mean "Rip off?" The Verve got permission from Decca Records but the stones former manager Allen Klein refused to give them the rights. Am I missing something? Did i read this comment wrong? It's not a ripoff, its a sample. Also, if you didnt know, The Verve own the rights to the song now

[Tom]

Can someone explain why “Bittersweet Symphony” by The Verve was (maybe still is?) so beloved?

It’s such a boring, lazy, and repetitive slog. I have never understood the appeal.

Thank your lucky stars that you don't live in the UK - that song was inescapable here for a good few years. I didn't get it either.

[halo eighteen]

^oh it was inescapable on this side of the pond, too, trust me. It was my only exposure to the Verve as a teenager and made me not want to seek out anything else from them, which is a shame because they do have a pretty solid discography.

[Magnetic]

What do you mean "Rip off?" The Verve got permission from Decca Records but the stones former manager Allen Klein refused to give them the rights. Am I missing something? Did i read this comment wrong? It's not a ripoff, its a sample. Also, if you didnt know, The Verve own the rights to the song now

Ok, my bad. I vaguely knew about the controversy, but didn't care enough to read all about it. Either way, it wasn't a great song IMO.

[allegro]

The lyrics are one of the reasons I hate it so much. It’s cliche and obvious—It’s the “Hang In There” cat motivational poster.

Okay, wait, to tell you the truth, I never paid attention to the lyrics. But now that I'm looking at them ...

https://www.metrolyrics.com/bitter-s...the-verve.html

They're not hang in there, at all. They're the opposite, really.

So, you have this symphony music in the background while this guy is talking about how life sucks and then you die. How you can TRY to change, but the mold is already cast, and you can't change that, and he's lonely and nobody hears him, over the din of all that symphony music.

"Trying to make ends meet, trying to find some money then you die"

"You've gotta change my mould, no, no, no
(It's just sex and violence, melody and silence)"

Followed by "Have you ever been down?" repeatedly.

So, it's literally a bittersweet symphony.

Huh. Interesting.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Oasis are the best "britpop" band

None of those other bands can hold a candle to Definitely Maybe

[Swykk]

@Helpmeiaminhell I would argue that Pulp are better than Oasis by a large margin.

Speaking of Jarvis Cocker, @allegro I read the lyrics before I posted (needed to know what the fuck he was lazily mumbling during the chorus). I interpreted the song as “We’re all fucked up. I understand.”

If he’s a million different people from one day to the next, how could that NOT change his mold? He’d be different molds. Daily.

[buzburbank]

Lollapalooza requiring a COVID vaccine is pointless, potentially unworkable, and shamefully betrays the original ethos of an event where no one - no matter how far on the fringes they might be - would be marginalized or rejected for being different, going against the grain, or taking an unpopular or unconventional stance on any issue. Of all the diseases I thought they would (or should) test for, this does not make the top 5.

A sad, slippery slope we are on.

[BRoswell]

Lollapalooza requiring a COVID vaccine is pointless, potentially unworkable, and shamefully betrays the original ethos of an event where no one - no matter how far on the fringes they might be - would be marginalized or rejected for being different, going against the grain, or taking an unpopular or unconventional stance on any issue.

Oh please. It's a corporate-run festival, not Woodstock. Of course they're going to try to cover their asses by doing that.

[Jinsai]

really, there's a lot of things you could say about the Verve, but to accuse them of being stupidly optimistic in some way is a really strange reading. They are an incredibly depressing band lyrically.

"Time stands still as you take your last pill
Into the half-light / another velvet morning for me, yeah
and now I'm trying to tell you about my life
My tongue is twisted
more dead than alive
and my feelings, my feelings they've been betrayed
I was born a little damaged man
Look what they made
Don't you find that it's lonely
The corridor you walk there alone
Life is a game
You tried
Life is a game
You're tired
life is a game
You've tried"

That's some bleak shit

[MrLobster]

A sad, slippery slope we are on.

Ha ha ha... no.

[allegro]

@Helpmeiaminhell I would argue that Pulp are better than Oasis by a large margin.

Pulp is better than any Brit pop.

If he’s a million different people from one day to the next, how could that NOT change his mold? He’d be different molds. Daily

He sings:

“No change, I can change
I can change, I can change
But I'm here in my mold
I am here in my mold
But I'm a million different people
From one day to the next
I can't change my mold
No, no, no, no, no
(Have you ever been down?)”

He’s saying he feels like he is a million different people, personalalities.
But he’s still stuck there in that same mold. He’s the same person.
He’s telling himself he can change.
But then he’s realizing that he can’t change.

[allegro]

Lollapalooza requiring a COVID vaccine is pointless, potentially unworkable, and shamefully betrays the original ethos of an event where no one - no matter how far on the fringes they might be - would be marginalized or rejected for being different, going against the grain, or taking an unpopular or unconventional stance on jany issue. Of all the diseases I thought they would (or should) test for, this does not make the top 5.

A sad, slippery slope we are on.

I believe the CITY OF CHICAGO likely has some input on this development and decision.

[RowanSomething]

@Helpmeiaminhell I would argue that Pulp are better than Oasis by a large margin.

Pulp is better than any Brit pop.

As someone from Sheffield, I'm basically required by law to agree with this, so that the People's Republic Of South Yorkshire Musical Secret Police don't imprison me for insulting Jarvis Cocker.

Thankfully for me, Pulp being the best britpop band is just true, so no need to worry about that.

[Swykk]

@Jinsai Those are certainly better lyrics than “Bittersweet Symphony” (again—emphasis on the cliched armchair “We’re all fucked up.” It’s not optimism. It’s a motivational poster for depression in life. I figured this was clear but maybe I didn’t explain well enough).
@allegro I stand by what I said. You can’t be a million different people and be the same mold. It’s nonsensical.

[Tom]

Oasis are the best "britpop" band

I'm not sure that being best of the absolute worst is much of an accolade.

[fillow]

I'm not sure that being best of the absolute worst is much of an accolade.

I have the same thoughts when people arguing about best metalcore and deathcore bands.
Britpop is fine, IMO.

[Krazy]

Lollapalooza requiring a COVID vaccine is pointless, potentially unworkable, and shamefully betrays the original ethos of an event where no one - no matter how far on the fringes they might be - would be marginalized or rejected for being different, going against the grain, or taking an unpopular or unconventional stance on any issue. Of all the diseases I thought they would (or should) test for, this does not make the top 5.

A sad, slippery slope we are on.

Holy shit the 2021 lineup sucks.

Not exactly breaking news and pretty much what we’ve come to expect, but, yeah. Fuck that festival.

[WorzelG]

I'm not sure that being best of the absolute worst is much of an accolade.

I’m with Stuart Braithewaite of Mogwai with this tweet! All that yanks go home jingoism making xenophobia seem cool, obnoxious

[allegro]

@Jinsai Those are certainly better lyrics than “Bittersweet Symphony” (again—emphasis on the cliched armchair “We’re all fucked up.” It’s not optimism. It’s a motivational poster for depression in life. I figured this was clear but maybe I didn’t explain well enough).
@allegro I stand by what I said. You can’t be a million different people and be the same mold. It’s nonsensical.

It’s solipsistic, sure. It’s stereotypical depression music, sure. What he’s saying is, the more things seem to change, the more they stay the same. He’s plain old depressed and lonely and broke and is gonna die someday. He can’t change because his destiny is set in cement. It ain’t Shakespeare. But there’s nothing motivational about it.

Note that I don’t know the Verve. And I’m not really here to argue, truly. But the lyrics to this song are like the lyrics to the vast majority of depressing songs. None of them are very pleasant. Or even interesting. The only thing I found “interesting” about THIS song was the tricky use of the peppy symphony juxtaposed against the depressing lyrics.