Controversial Music Opinions...

[frankie teardrop]

i was very resistant to lana at first, as i am with any hyped pop singer... i hadn't heard a lick and i judged her for a year or two. after giving born to die and paradise a cautious listen, i fell for her head over heels, and haven't looked back since. i've actually clocked as many listens to the three major releases as i have some of my very favorite post-punk bands, and that's saying something for me, who generally prefers variety and obscurity and championing the underdogs.

while it's still manufactured pop in many regards, i appreciate the influences that went into her music, including the nancy sinatra/portishead vibe, the literary references (lolita, clockwork orange, leaves of grass, etc.) and unlike lorde, whose personality and image i find to be at odds with how joyous her music is (i don't care much for her music), i find lana's 'watch the world burn' take on things to be really refreshing, and just more interesting in general. i'm not sure if it's genuine, but as all pop music is manufactured to a heavy degree, i try not to let all this kind of thing take away from the enjoyment of the music. i feel the same way about the latest controversy with frances (though if i had to pick a side, that was certainly stupid of her to have said) and i can't stand all of the detracting articles that rip her to shreds over every little thing, it just comes across as spiteful and resentful and almost like looking for any excuse to trash her. honestly, i couldn't give a flying fuck if she's a terrible human being who is just some pop star shell, so long as the music is strong and captivating.

the exception to the above rule, however, is morrissey. the more i keep hearing about his shitty relationships and general catty behavior, the more i dislike him and his music. that said, i haven't really liked a lot of his recent solo records, a handful of tracks aside. 'irish blood, english heart' was a cracking single, some of years of refusal was strong, but otherwise, it's just boring pub rock with too much kitchen sink drama for me. i still think the smiths are as brilliant as ever, and the first few solo records (viva hate especially) are very, very strong. i think it's just that for all his drama, i just haven't found much of his solo material to be worth weathering the constant bitchiness, and the shit he pulls on tours is really kind of ridiculous at this point and makes me resistant to try anything new he puts out. i guess that's less an exception to the rule and more of another example of how someone's attitude AND mediocre output combined are equal turnoffs to me.

that said, i still am planning on reading his biography one of these days...

[frankie teardrop]

Bonus points for releasing an album that's less than an hour long — I got to listen to the whole thing in one commute.

in general, i'm glad albums seem to be swinging back in this direction. for a while there was way too much bloat on the market... just because CDs can fit 80 minutes doesn't mean they should be filled to the brim, and most records that filled the CD had a lot of filler (there are exceptions of course). i prefer the old vinyl standard--- 40-45 minutes, 10 tracks or so, perfect length. i don't mind bonus tracks on reissues, but on my ipod, i separate albums to keep the original album flow intact and either tag the bonus tracks as part of their respective singles (for example, a b-side is marked as track two on the ____ 7''), or with the album title and (bonus) afterwards so i can make sure to regard them as a separate experience, even if they're just as good.

i am also having a hard time with new swans material not because it isn't solid (though some of it is questionable, tbh), but because i really just don't have the time for 3 hour albums, even on my commute to work. it just feels overindulgent and unnecessary. i still haven't made it all the way through the latest swans record in one sitting, and while i enjoy a lot of it, it's a turn off to me. i understand that's an unfair way to look at it, that making time for a intense, artistic three hour movie once every few years is a fitting analogy for listening to something with this much artistic weight, but i'm having a really hard time with it. i bought to be kind on vinyl, and it's just sitting there, taunting me, an unnecessary purchase that i will likely never drop the needle on...

and i hate to actually invoke the band we're all here to discuss, but i feel the same way about girl with the dragon tattoo and actually removed it from my ipod because i feel overwhelmed with the sheer volume of the material and tbh, kind of underwhelmed with the quality.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

i am also having a hard time with new swans material not because it isn't solid (though some of it is questionable, tbh), but because i really just don't have the time for 3 hour albums, even on my commute to work. it just feels overindulgent and unnecessary. i still haven't made it all the way through the latest swans record in one sitting, and while i enjoy a lot of it, it's a turn off to me.

Uh-oh. I've learned to pay attention whenever you mention a band I haven't heard of, so now I'm committed to listening to at least one Swans album, three hours or not.

[piggy]

the exception to the above rule, however, is morrissey. the more i keep hearing about his shitty relationships and general catty behavior, the more i dislike him and his music. that said, i haven't really liked a lot of his recent solo records, a handful of tracks aside. 'irish blood, english heart' was a cracking single, some of years of refusal was strong, but otherwise, it's just boring pub rock with too much kitchen sink drama for me. i still think the smiths are as brilliant as ever, and the first few solo records (viva hate especially) are very, very strong. i think it's just that for all his drama, i just haven't found much of his solo material to be worth weathering the constant bitchiness, and the shit he pulls on tours is really kind of ridiculous at this point and makes me resistant to try anything new he puts out. i guess that's less an exception to the rule and more of another example of how someone's attitude AND mediocre output combined are equal turnoffs to me.

that said, i still am planning on reading his biography one of these days...

Oh my God, yes. This is exactly how I feel about Morrissey. I will always adore The Smiths' catalog and his solo catalog up through at least Maladjusted, and I will always adore the person he used to be. However, his increasingly awful behavior combined with his increasingly dull albums (to my ears) makes me sad and frustrated and I just can't abide. I refuse to even read the autobiography because, while there is no doubt it would be well-written, I know it's filled with half-truths, embellishments and cutting remarks about others. He's just such a shadow of what he used to be and it makes me angry that he's doing so much constant damage to his legacy.

[GlitchyFlame]

While I do like Manson quite a bit, I do think that the original Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This) by the Eurythmics is superior to Manson's cover.

[piggy]

Nothing controversial about that, it's one of the greatest tracks of the 80s.

[elevenism]

SOMEONE (i can't remember who) here posted this ridiculous piece of insanity and it got stuck in my head for about 3 weeks. Now i love it.

[thefragile_jake]

SOMEONE (i can't remember who) here posted this ridiculous piece of insanity and it got stuck in my head for about 3 weeks. Now i love it.

Lakutis is good shit. He was the DJ for Das Racist when I saw them in 2011 and it's looking like he's getting a good career for himself.

[frankie teardrop]

Uh-oh. I've learned to pay attention whenever you mention a band I haven't heard of, so now I'm committed to listening to at least one Swans album, three hours or not.

aww, bless! if you're going to try swans for the first time, i'd start with children of god, the great annihilator, or greed/holy money, all classic records. just be warned that they're dark, moody, and occasionally esoteric records that are definitely not for the faint of heart. i also have a lot of love for the burning world, which is kind of the black sheep of the family for reasons that elude me. it's major label and easier to digest, mostly acoustic, and generally trashed by michael gira in the past, but i think it's actually a really enjoyable record and one of my favorites.

and the new album really is fantastic in spots, so if you actually have the time for it, give it a go.

[Space Suicide]

I don't really like them but I'm glad to hear that Metallica did an amazing job at their headlining performance at Glastonbury due to all the bitching and moaning protests.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I get that LDR has this persona and part of that persona is saying dumb shit. However, I think once people understand that this is part of her character. Once people get this, then they can dismiss her blabbering and focus on the music. I think her persona is not the worst in the world. Look at Smelly Cyrus. I think Cyrus' persona is trying to hard and Cyrus actually believes in her antics. Now that's some dumb shit. Personally I don't care what Lana says, even though it might be stupid or not. Ultraviolence is good.

I can separate artists who are assholes or who are being a "character", still doesn't take away that she's being marketed as, and essentially a "bad girl" Katy Perry. I mean, for fuck sake, I like Eminem's first three albums which are essentially him under the guise of playing different characters (though I suppose MMLP is him being himself and it's actually his best record). Here are some artists I absolutely love who are notorious for being assholes or ridiculous for other reasons: Jack White, Metallica, Trent Reznor, Kanye West, Thom Yorke, Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, Oasis, Brian Jonestown Massacre, Bradford Cox, Morrissey, etc. You get the idea, but each one of the names I mentioned are no surprise to opening their mouths and grating on people, but I've never let that get in the way of liking their music. Character or not, if you make bad music and music people don't like, you'll get called out for it. To say people focus too much on the persona and not music is one of the biggest copout arguments that's made. Khrz said it best on the previous page by mentioning that the presentation plays largely into it, especially if it's all going under the guise of "performance art", which in this case and based off what you said about her being a character is appropriate. At that point, if it's part of a larger picture of someone making music under the guise of a character, can you really blame someone who is immediately turned off by them for how they're portrayed in the media?

[Kid Charlemagne]

I don't really like them but I'm glad to hear that Metallica did an amazing job at their headlining performance at Glastonbury due to all the bitching and moaning protests.

Sorry for the double post, but I can't agree more. I watched the footage of it, and while it's a normal run of the mill Metallica show, it's still very fucking good. Those protests reeked of people who had too much time on their hands and needed to find an easy target, like Metallica. Seriously, have they looked at the headliners for US festivals in the past two years? Metallica isn't even in the 10 worst of any of those artists. It's a nice change and cool to still see they can get their due and have their legions of fans support the fuck out of them. Also, this is the biggest and best "fuck you" I've seen regarding a protest.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

aww, bless! if you're going to try swans for the first time, i'd start with children of god, the great annihilator, or greed/holy money, all classic records. just be warned that they're dark, moody, and occasionally esoteric records that are definitely not for the faint of heart. i also have a lot of love for the burning world, which is kind of the black sheep of the family for reasons that elude me. it's major label and easier to digest, mostly acoustic, and generally trashed by michael gira in the past, but i think it's actually a really enjoyable record and one of my favorites.

and the new album really is fantastic in spots, so if you actually have the time for it, give it a go.

Looking at the reviews at Allmusic, it's not easy picking an entry point — almost everything is 4 or 4.5 stars — so I decided to jump with both feet into the Cop/Young God/Greed/Holy Money industrial complex and kept on going into Children of God/World of Skin.

Cop was hit or miss, but Young God is where things get interesting, and I like everything I've heard since. (Children of God was slow to get going, though.) Even if Skin was a side project, it sounds like a close sibling of Children of God, maybe even the better half.

So five hours later I'm completely hooked and basically I hate you.

[burninglard]

I recommend The Great Annihilator next. That's my favorite from swans

[Charmingly Miserable]

SOMEONE (i can't remember who) here posted this ridiculous piece of insanity and it got stuck in my head for about 3 weeks. Now i love it.

Lakutis! Yes. Love that video. Check out Skeleton.

[WorzelG]

I feel sorry for Justin Bieber. I'd like to think I wouldn't let my kids get in that state. Don't get me wrong, I hate the music he makes, but I don't hold him responsible for that.

He was, what, 17 when he got all that fame? Look how Trent went off the rails when he got success in his mid 20s. But if you're an adolescent you don't have any perspective to view yourself from. I know he's laughing all the way to the bank, but money isn't everything and I really believe that.

I just hope for the sake of music and himself that he does a Rick Astley

[GulDukat]

Guns N' Roses are still a great band.

I'm watching the new Guns N' Roses Appetite For Democracy DVD now and it's just really great. Yes, Slash, Duff and Izzy are gone, but Axl's got himself a great band. The old songs sound fresh and revitalized and the band really is tight and has a great chemistry--it's not like watching Axl and a bunch of hired hands, the way some people characterize the later-day lineups. The new songs sound great and more organic live and blend in nicely with the classics. I'm not saying that the current lineup is better than the old Guns N' Roses, but this performance is a lot better than the bloated one from the 1992 live in Japan DVDs. Hoping to hear the follow-up to Chinese soon.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

I recommend The Great Annihilator next. That's my favorite from swans

The 90s aren't well represented on Spotify, so I think The Great Annihilator is next by default.

Guns N' Roses are still a great band.

I'm watching the new Guns N' Roses Appetite For Democracy DVD now and it's just really great. Yes, Slash, Duff and Izzy are gone, but Axl's got himself a great band. The old songs sound fresh and revitalized and the band really is tight and has a great chemistry--it's not like watching Axl and a bunch of hired hands, the way some people characterize the later-day lineups. The new songs sound great and more organic live and blend in nicely with the classics. I'm not saying that the current lineup is better than the old Guns N' Roses, but this performance is a lot better than the bloated one from the 1992 live in Japan DVDs. Hoping to hear the follow-up to Chinese soon.

But have they learned how to hit the stage on time yet?

I get a kick out of what Axl said a month ago: "But basically, we have what I call kind of the second half of Chinese. That’s already recorded. And then we have a remix album made of the songs from Chinese. That’s been done for a while, too." I should hope it's done by now — how does it take six freaking years to release a remix album?

[GulDukat]

But have they learned how to hit the stage on time yet?

I get a kick out of what Axl said a month ago: "But basically, we have what I call kind of the second half of Chinese. That’s already recorded. And then we have a remix album made of the songs from Chinese. That’s been done for a while, too." I should hope it's done by now — how does it take six freaking years to release a remix album?

Yeah, IDK, I guess Axl just does things on his own schedule. The fact that Robin has been gone for five years and Buckethead left GN'R ten years ago might have something to do with it. Axl might want additional input/recording from Ron Thal and DJ Ashba.

[GulDukat]

Agree. I resisted her up till now. I heard clips of her first album the other night and didn't like what I heard. Ultraviolence is unbelievably well crafted. Good job Dan Auerbach.

Her new album is the only one that I'm familiar with and I quite like it. I'm not in love with it, but I think it's very good. I expect to see it on a lot of "best of" lists for 2014. Shame that Tori's album isn't getting the buzz it deserves considering how good it is.

[GulDukat]

I really liked Alice In Chain's 1995 s/t album, Black Gives Way to Blue and The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here; that said, I feel that Mad Season's s/t album and Jerry Cantrell's solo work, especially Degradation Trip Volumes 1 & 2 are superior.

[Space Suicide]

http://www.avclub.com/article/insane...juggalo-206657

[Jinsai]

I feel really ashamed to admit this... but Wrecking Ball is an amazing pop song.

[kel]

it really is. the whole record is great.

[GulDukat]

Stone Temple Pilots were one of the best rock bands of the 1990s and are maybe one of the top ten rock bands of the last 30 years. They have a great, versatile body-of-work, had a sound that encompassed many styles and released some of the most memorable rock songs in recent years. While they were quite popular, I feel that Kretz, the DeLeo brothers and Weiland don't really get the respect and recognition that they deserve. Shangri La Dee Da, in particular, is a totally overlooked gem, imho.

[Charmingly Miserable]

Stone Temple Pilots were one of the best rock bands of the 1990s and are maybe one of the top ten rock bands of the last 30 years. They have a great, versatile body-of-work, had a sound that encompassed many styles and released some of the most memorable rock songs in recent years. While they were quite popular, I feel that Kretz, the DeLeo brothers and Weiland don't really get the respect and recognition that they deserve. Shangri La Dee Da, in particular, is a totally overlooked gem, imho.

Do you feel that STP is Weiland or the DeLeo brothers?

I think that Soundgarden has always been underrated. Thanks a lot, Nirvana & PJ.

[GulDukat]

Do you feel that STP is Weiland or the DeLeo brothers?

I think that Soundgarden has always been underrated. Thanks a lot, Nirvana & PJ.

The DeLeo brothers, Weiland and Kretz, is what made the band. They had an incredible chemistry. As for the current lineup--I approve. I was never a huge Linkin Park fan, but having seen Scott on his most recent tour and having seen some youtube clips of STP on tour with Scott in the last few years, I can understand why they would choose to move on with a new singer. I actually really liked the High Rise EP and am looking forward to hearing their new album.

Soundgarden fucking rule. Superunknown is one of the best rock albums, ever, IMHO.

[henryeatscereal]

Stone Temple Pilots were one of the best rock bands of the 1990s and are maybe one of the top ten rock bands of the last 30 years. They have a great, versatile body-of-work, had a sound that encompassed many styles and released some of the most memorable rock songs in recent years. While they were quite popular, I feel that Kretz, the DeLeo brothers and Weiland don't really get the respect and recognition that they deserve. Shangri La Dee Da, in particular, is a totally overlooked gem, imho.

You can hear their albums from CORE to Shangri La Dee Da and see how they grow as musicians, also nobody liked the self titled album but ui consider it a brilliant pop-rock album

[Jinsai]

I think that Soundgarden has always been underrated. Thanks a lot, Nirvana & PJ.

Actually, they probably should thank Nirvana. Before Nevermind came out, the music charts were dominated by hair metal bands and pop. You could even say they paved the way for bands like Soundgarden to achieve mainstream success. Badmotorfinger wasn't flying off the shelves at first.

And since Chris Cornell was actually in a band with Eddie Vedder, Stone Gossard, and Mike McCready from Pearl Jam...

Really though, they were/are a huge band. Superunknown debuted at number one in the US, and it went on to sell over 5 million copies in the US alone.

[Charmingly Miserable]

And since Chris Cornell was actually in a band with Eddie Vedder, Stone Gossard, and Mike McCready from Pearl Jam...

Are you talking about Temple of the Dog? If so, that was kind of a one off tribute to Andrew Wood.

I'm not talking about sales or success here. I just think that Nirvana and PJ overshadowed SG.