Controversial Music Opinions...

[Jinsai]

Never got into solo Lou Reed solo.

Not even Berlin?!?!

[allegro]

not even berlin?!?!

Transformer!!!!!!!

[aggroculture]

Lester Bangs' interviews with Lou Reed are probably the most entertaining thing Lou Reed has ever been involved in.
Don't care for his music at all, or see really what anyone else sees in him.

[Jinsai]

The new David Bowie album is not amazing. Not even close. It's pretty good. Maybe.

I wanted to love it, and it has a few really good songs on it, but the more I've listened to it the less I've liked it.

[elevenism]

The two "great" classic Pixies albums are Surfer Rosa and Doolittle. Most people would suggest you start with the latter, but I'd vote for Surfer Rosa. They're both awesome though.

Thanks.
Ok, now you all have me really fucking interested. i've heard a song here and there, but being born in 1980, i guess the pixies were just a little bit before my time. The breeders were spot on for me though. They are one of the very best, most underrated bands i know of (if you dig the whole post-punk/grunge/experimental vibe.) THEY were the female Nirvana, not Cortney's Hole or whatever it was.

[xmd 5a]

The new David Bowie album is not amazing. Not even close. It's pretty good. Maybe.

I wanted to love it, and it has a few really good songs on it, but the more I've listened to it the less I've liked it.

I'm in the same boat actually. Really enjoyed it on my first listen but nothing has stood out since. Not a bad album by any means, but kind of meh after the initial novelty wore off.

[BenAkenobi]

first, sorry for replying to three days old discussion (second, fun fact — Discipline turned 5 y/o around the time of quoted posts)

There is a version where it fades out completely.

... but yeah, the thing with discipline is a bigger issue, so it's not likely it went under the radar. is there a proper mastered version of the full version, without fading out?

I think you get one when you assemble the multitracks.

here's the original file that was briefly put up on nin.com to prevent circulation of an incomplete radio recording
http://www.sendspace.com/file/9c8rmq
multitracks are slightly longer, if memory serves well. i sort of like how album version ends. reminded me of The perfect drug's unfinished "...pick up the pieces"

[elevenism]

No. No no no no no.
I love the album but there's no way it's Bowie's best.

Ok Ms Baptism in Wisdom...
My other favorites are Low (which comes DANGEROUSLY close to beating Outside,) Scary Monsters, Earthling and Heathen. So now...will you tell ME which is the best Bowie album? like i said, i was sixteen...you know how music is when you're sixteen! The Outside cassette was an xmas present for me under the tree and it quickly became my favorite album of all time, as well as that of my young "fiancee." Oozing sex and brian eno, a bizzare non-linear story about a dystopian near-future (did you get the little book?) and a screaming parker fly guitar, it got hold of my SOUL. Heart's Filthy Lesson, I'm Deranged (probably his best song,) The Voyeur of Utter Destruction, We Prick you, oh good lord it was SO amazing to my 16 year old ears.

Man, i listened to Doolittle, but i'm just not super keen on Frank Black's vocals. So...is this something i should try to acquire a taste for? is it like Guiness stout or super dark chocolate?

[allegro]

Obviously when you publicly state that an album is "best," you need to use widely-applied criteria and not "it was under the tree from Santa when I was 16." Maybe what you meant to say is that the album is your "favorite" - and then you don't need any explanation at all. :-)

Bowie has been around for SOOOO long, and has such a HUGE catalog, anyone's "best" opinion (particularly SONG) should consider the whole catalog.

Re new Bowie album. I like some songs on it a lot, but it doesn't do to me what Radiohead does to me. I could be sad about this, except I know that somebody will be saying this about Radiohead in 30 years.

[Kid Charlemagne]

This has been weighing on me for a while, and it'll seem like I'm trolling, but I'm not. But I can truly not stand Tool. I don't like them, I don't see what the big deal is and I easily get bored with them. That's probably sacrilege to mention here, but that's how I feel about Tool. I've tried, but I think their songs are bloated and pretentious, I think Maynard is a hack as a lyricist and a frontman as far as the way he brings himself. Yeah, they're extremely talented, they're also extremely fucking annoying. I honestly don't know why I dislike anything Maynard does (Tool, Puscifer, my opinion on APC has gone from love to apathy). So what exactly am I missing with Tool? Why do you people love them exactly?

[frankie teardrop]

I'm in the same boat actually. Really enjoyed it on my first listen but nothing has stood out since. Not a bad album by any means, but kind of meh after the initial novelty wore off.

same as you both. i think it's decent, and only getting the praise it is because it's been so long. if it came out right after reality, it would be regarded in a similar light.

@Jinsai no to berlin. @allegro i think i mentioned above, but i love 'perfect day' and 'satellite of love' (how can you not- though they are more bowie, which is probably why) other than that, not into that record either.

[Baphomette]

So now...will you tell ME which is the best Bowie album?

Obviously when you publicly state that an album is "best," you need to use widely-applied criteria and not "it was under the tree from Santa when I was 16." Maybe what you meant to say is that the album is your "favorite" - and then you don't need any expiation at all. :-)

Bowie has been around for SOOOO long, and has such a HUGE catalog, anyone's "best" opinion (particularly SONG) should consider the whole catalog.

What she said. :-)

Again, I fucking love Outside but it definitely pales in comparison to earlier works. My personal favorites? Ziggy Stardust, Young Americans and Station to Station. Let's Dance will always have a special place in my heart because I saw Bowie for the first time during that tour.

The Bowie section of my record collection is pretty big - larger than my NIN section, actually. I've adored him since I was... well, let's just say Santa bought my copy of Scary Monsters at Licorice Pizza.

[Jinsai]

I'd say that Outside is probably Bowie's most underrated album by a long shot. It's usually disregarded and ignored by the critics, and that's just odd to me since I think it's better than Earthling, Heathen, Reality, Hours, and The Next Day combined. In fact, out of all those albums that followed Outside, the only ones that felt like they were trying to do something truly interesting were Heathen and Earthling... and Earthling is a pretty mixed offering. At least it was an earnest effort at reinventing himself, with limited success.

I'm not entirely sure why it's so overlooked. Maybe people were done with expecting anything quality from him after Never Let Me Down, Tonight, and the whole Tin Machine thing. Maybe it was too dark and weird for most people.

It's not perfect. The segue bits are intrusive and occasionally obnoxious. There's some songs on there that really just drag on and on. I'd also personally say the album is too long, and for something that's trying to operate as a concept album, it's strangely inconsistent with maintaining a mood or cohesive direction from song to song.

[frankie teardrop]

completely nailed it, @Jinsai . and while i'm here and we're making lists, my top five, which changes regularly, is: heroes, station to station, low, outside, and young americans, though scary monsters or diamond dogs usually swap in and out of the fifth spot. the older i get though, the more i like young americans

[Baphomette]

the older i get though, the more i like young americans

exactly this.

also, his cover of "across the universe" is amazing. (how could it not be with lennon doing backing vocals?)

[allegro]

well, let's just say Santa bought my copy of Scary Monsters at Licorice Pizza.

yeah well we were listening to "David Live at the Tower" in the lunch room in 7th grade. on vinyl. on some old shitty record player via the school PA. sometimes being old is pretty cool. and those warm memories is why THAT is my favorite Bowie album. Hearing "suck baby suck" over the Jr High PA during lunch was, well, priceless.


But, really, my absolutely favorite Bowie album was, is and always will be Ziggy Stardust.

By the way, this is REALLY interesting:

[Frozen Beach]

Honestly, I love The Next Day. It definitely isn't his best, but it's way better than I thought it would be considering how much music David has pumped out in his career.

[elevenism]

Hell yeah. I guess what i mean to say was that outside was my first real exposure to bowie...at a time when i was VERY young and impressionable. The darkness, the non-linear aspect to an elusive story...i loved it SO much...it was so, i don't know, 1999 you know? turn of the millennium...that was the vibe i got from it. I was obsessed. THAT's what i meant about "santa leaving it under the tree." I was YOUNG. and it wasn't my dad's bowie, it was MY bowie.
That's one amazing thing about bowie to me. he made music my dad was into that pissed my grandpa off, and managed to stick around and remain relevant enough to make music that I love that pissed my dad off!

Low and Scary Monsters are fucking amazing. I actually have the extended Best of Bowie and there isn't really a bad song on the whole set. Outside just has a VERY special place in my heart.

I mean look at THIS shit.

[aggroculture]

This has been weighing on me for a while, and it'll seem like I'm trolling, but I'm not. But I can truly not stand Tool. I don't like them, I don't see what the big deal is and I easily get bored with them. That's probably sacrilege to mention here, but that's how I feel about Tool. I've tried, but I think their songs are bloated and pretentious, I think Maynard is a hack as a lyricist and a frontman as far as the way he brings himself. Yeah, they're extremely talented, they're also extremely fucking annoying. I honestly don't know why I dislike anything Maynard does (Tool, Puscifer, my opinion on APC has gone from love to apathy). So what exactly am I missing with Tool? Why do you people love them exactly?

OK I'll give this a try. Maybe you had to be there. In the beginning, I mean. Back in the early 90s, Tool stood out as being heavier, weirder, darker, and smarter than the rest of the alt.rock/grunge bunch. If you were into Nirvana, PJ, and STP but wanted something even more depressing and miserable, something that touched and understood and soothed the absolute unending misery of your tortured teenage soul, Tool were your go-to band. Undertow offered music that was a little funky (like Primus), groove-heavy (like RATM or Helmet), anthemic (like Nirvana and NIN), even murky and dirgey like Melvins or Type O Negative. A complete package. Tool were smart, and literate, and had a dark sense of humour: that Joyful Guide to Lachrymology stunt was a hoot. Also, it seemed like there was more to them than just a depressive worldview: around the corner the promise of some kind of redemption or way through out of the gloom. Let’s not forget Maynard’s vocals: pretty much unique, until they were plagiarized by several generations of whiners. With 1996's Aenima Tool made good on their promise and like NIN did with TDS, they evolved, stepping out and creating something which at the time sounded fantastically new and visionary.This is a period in which we believed that music was actually going new places, places it had never been before: a very different mindset from today’s view of music as an endless “retro” recycling of the past: Tame Impala would have been laughed out of town. If you grew up with Tool and drank their own brand of Kool Aid it was – and continues to be – a fantastic ride. If you didn’t I can see how what you might see there instead is a bunch of Black Sabbath and King Crimson rip-offs, along with cultish delusions of grandeur.

[xmd 5a]

I've never been a Tool fan but there's a fair bit of personal nostalgia attached to the Lateralus era stuff for me. It came out around about the time I started to actively enjoy music and the videos for the singles from that album blew my 11 year old mind. I've kind of still got a soft spot for "Schism".

[Baphomette]

Back in the early 90s, Tool stood out as being heavier, weirder, darker, and smarter than the rest of the alt.rock/grunge bunch.

I couldn't disagree more. They were seen as contrived wannabes, part of the alt. rock frat boy group of bands (like STP).

[Fixer808]

re: which Bowie album is better ZIGGY GODDAMN STARDUST. First track to last, it's superb.

[Jinsai]

re: which Bowie album is better ZIGGY GODDAMN STARDUST. First track to last, it's superb.

Low and Heroes are both better imho

Also, if it's just up to me, Scary Monsters is better than both Low and Heroes... tomorrow I might change my mind and decide that Low is the best.

ziggy doesn't come close to my top ranking... even though it might have been the first Bowie album I really got into.

[Fixer808]

Ziggy's got the best songs to sing at karaoke. Rock and Roll Suicide is a guaranteed crowd-pleaser ;D

[Jinsai]

Ziggy's got the best songs to sing at karaoke. Rock and Roll Suicide is a guaranteed crowd-pleaser ;D

I was a karaoke host for 3 years. feel my pain.

[Fixer808]

Hey, I clap for every shitty singer that decides to get on stage, because they have the balls or the beers to get up and sing! But I get what you're sayin'... [off topic but whatevs]

[allegro]

Ziggy was groundbreaking rock n roll with really great rock songwriting.

Low is a different kind of album than Ziggy.

It's like comparing Led Zeppelin "IV" to Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue."

I understand why your karaoke hell job would make you hate an album, but there's a reason why Ziggy is full of songs that people can sing while drunk in public and Low isn't. (I've never ever done karaoke, I don't get it, I was dragged to a karaoke thing in Reno once and people there took it WAY too seriously, you could tell they LIVED for this every.single.week, it's creepy, but I digress.)



Anyway, re the Pixies: I like some of their songs but I'm an "album" person meaning I tend to listen to entire albums and not songs and I don't think I've ever been able to get through an entire Pixies album without getting bored.

[Sutekh]

I was a karaoke host for 3 years. feel my pain.

haha... the plot thickens

[Jinsai]

Ziggy was groundbreaking rock n roll with really great rock songwriting.

Low is a different kind of album than Ziggy.

It's like comparing Led Zeppelin "IV" to Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue."

I understand why your karaoke hell job would make you hate an album, but there's a reason why Ziggy is full of songs that people can sing while drunk in public and Low isn't. (I've never ever done karaoke, I don't get it, I was dragged to a karaoke thing in Reno once and people there took it WAY too seriously, you could tell they LIVED for this every.single.week, it's creepy, but I digress.)

I don't hate Ziggy Stardust. Not even close to hating it. I'm not sure, but I think it was the first Bowie album that I really got into... it was either that or Hunky Dory. My memory is hazy. It's just that Low is on a different level of greatness for me. Still, I'd agree that they're so entirely different that it's almost impossible to compare them, even if they're by the same artist... which makes it tough not to draw comparisons.

And yeah, people who take karaoke seriously are creepy, but that job only made me hate music that I already disliked. Like Journey.

Is there anything controversial about saying that Journey and Bon Jovi suck?

[Space Suicide]

I don't hate Ziggy Stardust. Not even close to hating it. I'm not sure, but I think it was the first Bowie album that I really got into... it was either that or Hunky Dory. My memory is hazy. It's just that Low is on a different level of greatness for me. Still, I'd agree that they're so entirely different that it's almost impossible to compare them, even if they're by the same artist... which makes it tough not to draw comparisons.

And yeah, people who take karaoke seriously are creepy, but that job only made me hate music that I already disliked. Like Journey.

Is there anything controversial about saying that Journey and Bon Jovi suck?

Not really. I fucking Hate Journey, what a shit band. They get on my nerves. I on't like Bon Jovi but hearing them doesn't give me a seething hatred for the world of bad music at large. Journey does it though. Kansas too.