Controversial Music Opinions...

[seasonsinthesky]

In my mind Siamese Dream towers above anything else he ever did by a mile...listen to a track like Geek U.S.A, how innovative, experimental, disjointed, mysterious and fucking weird it sounds, yet perfect at the same time.

All those words also describe at least half of the overall MCIS era material, some Gish songs, a lot of Adore and some M1/2 stuff, as well as Gossamer. Hell, most of the good Zwan stuff too. It's ludicrous to hold up SD alone if you're saying Geek exemplifies what Corgan does well, because he did it a hell of a lot more than just SD.

And Silverfuck is way more innovative, experimental, disjointed, mysterious and fucking weird. Without even taking the tour jams into account.

[Sutekh]

Yeah but SD was the first where he shone like that, the 2nd 3rd 4th times are still good but it's not new anymore

[GulDukat]

Billy's one of those "temperamental, sensitive artists" types, so I take everything he says with a grain of salt. Loved Drum and fife myself.

[Space Suicide]

Controversy? I find Siamese Dream SP's weakest album.

[Shadaloo]

Billy Corgan is a psychologically unbalanced musical genius, and totally pompous asshat egomaniac. And I can't help but love the guy.

When you push out two albums and a shit-ton of material that completely encapsulates and distills the feeling of youth, and people grow up to that...you've gotta be careful how to evolve from there. Adore was the logical, right step, you know? "I'm talking to adults now." But everything since then, to some degree, has been motivated by ploys for relevance, sales, chart domination and, in a word, fame. He can't deal with lack of critical acclaim. So for like the past 15 years he's been torn between trying to recapture past glories (Zeitgeist, Monuments) and doing something more honest like Zwan (seriously, look how happy the guy was around the time) only for everyone to tell him he's doing X or Y wrong, this is forced or that sounds weak, etc. And seeing him so bitter toward everything under the sun just makes it worse. For a guy who basically sung the praises of youth itself, it was the last thing he should have become. Should have been in Trent, Nick Cave or Bowie territory by now, looking back on life, and more or less at peace.

I feel bad for the guy, honestly. He can't win. But at the same time, he does it to himself.

[Dr Channard]

Billy Corgan is a psychologically unbalanced musical genius, and totally pompous asshat egomaniac. And I can't help but love the guy.

When you push out two albums and a shit-ton of material that completely encapsulates and distills and the feeling of youth, and people grow up to that...you've gotta be careful how to evolve from there. Adore was the logical, right step, you know? "I'm talking to adults now." But everything since then, to some degree, has been motivated by ploys for relevance, sales, chart domination and, in a word, fame. He can't deal with lack of critical acclaim. So for like the past 15 years he's been torn between trying to recapture past glories (Zeitgeist, Monuments) and doing something more honest like Zwan (seriously, look how happy the guy was around the time) only for everyone to tell him he's doing X or Y wrong, this is forced or that sounds weak, etc. And seeing him so bitter toward everything under the sun just makes it worse. For a guy who basically sung the praises of youth itself, it was the last thing he should have become. Should have been in Trent, Nick Cave or Bowie territory by now, looking back on life, and more or less at peace.

I feel bad for the guy, honestly. He can't win. But at the same time, he does it to himself.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you. Perfect.

[Jinsai]

That Chris Cornell song sounds like Sia

regarding Billy Corgan... I don't know. I thought Zeitgeist was a shitty album, and Oceania was shockingly bad. Sorry. I don't care about Corgan's ego or what's going on with him. I just listen to the music and base my opinion on that.

[implanted_microchip]

Billy Corgan is a psychologically unbalanced musical genius, and totally pompous asshat egomaniac. And I can't help but love the guy.

When you push out two albums and a shit-ton of material that completely encapsulates and distills and the feeling of youth, and people grow up to that...you've gotta be careful how to evolve from there. Adore was the logical, right step, you know? "I'm talking to adults now." But everything since then, to some degree, has been motivated by ploys for relevance, sales, chart domination and, in a word, fame. He can't deal with lack of critical acclaim. So for like the past 15 years he's been torn between trying to recapture past glories (Zeitgeist, Monuments) and doing something more honest like Zwan (seriously, look how happy the guy was around the time) only for everyone to tell him he's doing X or Y wrong, this is forced or that sounds weak, etc. And seeing him so bitter toward everything under the sun just makes it worse. For a guy who basically sung the praises of youth itself, it was the last thing he should have become. Should have been in Trent, Nick Cave or Bowie territory by now, looking back on life, and more or less at peace.

I feel bad for the guy, honestly. He can't win. But at the same time, he does it to himself.

There's a really interesting struggle I see where he is someone who his work appealed to so many different people for such a wide variety of reasons that it built a fanbase where everything he does will displease someone. There is no way he can make everybody happy, but at a time he did, and it's got to be hard to not know why. He seems like someone who really wants the external approval and wants that support and encouragement, it just so happens that when you're a major artist acclaim is the way you tend to obtain it. His music is a really personal thing and he probably has a hard time seeing it as separate from an extension of self. When people say his work is bad, he sees it as a personal attack, saying he is bad. If someone doesn't like his music, and his music is his life, then they don't like him, or at least that's probably the thought process behind it.

It's really easy to not separate your own art from your inner self when it's something you really devote yourself to and so any criticism of it can easily be taken as a criticism of who you are. I have always had a lot of sympathy for him, for whatever reason. I like the guy. I think he seems like someone who at a personal level is actually really caring and sensitive, sensitivity can just go in a very bad direction and make you easy to offend or hurt and that can cause walls to be put up and issues to grow out of it. I've always been someone a little too sensitive and I take things a little too personally often, so maybe I just relate to that, but I find it hard to not feel for him. Seeing him smiling his face off and looking genuinely content playing the other night made me happier than I've felt in a while, sad as that may sound, it was just something so wonderful to see the guy having a seemingly great time.

I'd love to see him end up in a space where he can do his thing, love doing it, devote himself to it, and feel confident and content in it, and still have that approval and success surrounding it but not depend on it.

[Kunstmord]

I'm not a big fan of Mellon Collie (there's some brilliant songs there, but it always felt bloated to me). Adore and Machina I/II are amazing albums that I love, Zeitgeist was O.K., everything since then was pretty bad.
I guess he isn't that great when there's no one to help him contain/polish his idea.
P.S. Zeitgeist has some amazing drumming by Jimmy. I mean, the ending of Bring the Light is just holycrap. United States is one my fave SP songs (along with Superchrist).

On a non-SP related controversial note, I decided to check out F.O.B. just for fun, and it turns out they're a pretty solid catchy band. Now I'm debating whether I should go see them live in October.

[Deepvoid]

I'm gonna go see Breaking Benjamin this Sep. 4 and I can't wait! Haha!

Guilty pleasure.

[WorzelG]

Wonder if Billy Corgan regrets organising q&a sessions, although personally I don't think the Kurt Cobain murder conspiracy is anywhere near as far fetched as the Alex Jones shit Corgan has given credence to!
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/0...fortable-fast/

[GulDukat]

Kurt Cobain was a depressed heroin addict and shot himself. 911 was not an inside job. The moon landing was not faked. Oswald was the lone gunman and was not part of a larger conspiracy.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the truth.

Of course we all know that Roswell was a cover-up and that in fact, three Ferengi from the 24th century crash landed there from Deep Space Nine.

[eversonpoe]

OK I just listened to Chris Cornell's song Scream and I really like it! It's compelled me to listen to it about 4 times this past hour. Not sure about the lyrics though, did his wife relegate him to the couch a few nights after reading that?

wow, i do not like that. it sounds like he's trying to cash in on a musical trend that got big a few years ago (R&B infused electronic), and his voice doesn't suit it at all. also, those lyrics are ATROCIOUS and super sexist. granted, i was in an abusive relationship where my girlfriend constantly manipulated me, and i've written plenty of songs about it, but none of them were so trite and obvious.

[GulDukat]

wow, i do not like that. it sounds like he's trying to cash in on a musical trend that got big a few years ago (R&B infused electronic), and his voice doesn't suit it at all. also, those lyrics are ATROCIOUS and super sexist. granted, i was in an abusive relationship where my girlfriend constantly manipulated me, and i've written plenty of songs about it, but none of them were so trite and obvious.

I hope that Chris never again makes an album like Scream, but I do like it, as oddball albums go.

[Sutekh]

Kurt Cobain was a depressed heroin addict and shot himself. 911 was not an inside job. The moon landing was not faked. Oswald was the lone gunman and was not part of a larger conspiracy.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the truth.

Of course we all know that Roswell was a cover-up and that in fact, three Ferengi from the 24th century crash landed there from Deep Space Nine.

Um no, it was independence day who crashed in the desert, then hippie data fixed up the ship so the fresh prince and the fly could destroy the mothership by trying to sync it with itunes...ffs open your eyes sheeple

[GulDukat]

It's because he's become pompous to his own work. Fans and/or "fans" don't like his recent output as much and he throws a temper tantrum that it's OUR fault that we don't like it. In actuality his musicianship is still on point, his work is just a lot less more interesting than it used to be. It's became paint by numbers to me more than experimental. I loved Zeitgeist (still do so) and enjoy Oceania. Monuments to an Elegy (shit like Drum + Fife, fucking hate that song) as well as that travesty known as Teargarden By Kaleidyscope (Widow Wake My Mind is the shittiest song ever recorded under the SP moniker) turned out to be very mediocre compared to previous works. I enjoy the band and love the discography but I agree 100% with him having his ass swapped with his head as far as his attitude and behavior goes.

Saw the Pumpkins last night (awesome show) and I can see where Billy is coming from. Last night, towards the end of the concert, he even mentioned that the "Fairweather fans and posers left," before the show ended when people started to leave early. I thought it was pretty rude and disrespectful to stay for the hits and then rush out for your 5th beer or 10th bathroom break when the band played a new song that you didn't know. I mean, if you are a true fan and respect the artist that you are seeing, stay in your fucking seat for the whole show. Hell, I'm not crazy about every song that every band that I see perform, but they are putting on a concert and out of respect, you should not pick and choose, you should watch the entire show. I'm not saying you can't take a bathroom break, but getting up multiple times and just staying for the hits is rude, imho. Billy pours his heart and soul into writing and performing, I can see why he would be upset about such disregard for his art.

[Krazy]

I dunno, as long as a person isn't a drunken asshole or causing problems or being loud/obnoxious or CONSTANTLY getting up and walking through rows they should do as they please. Someone pays for a ticket then it's their call what they wanna hear and see and leave when necessary. Happens at every concert, not everyone's an uber-fan (and if only super fans were allowed into concerts ticket sales would drop by about 90%), and a lot of people gotta go home or wake up for work the next morning.

This is is in general, not just SP.

[elevenism]

Saw the Pumpkins last night (awesome show) and I can see where Billy is coming from. Last night, towards the end of the concert, he even mentioned that the "Fairweather fans and posers left," before the show ended when people started to leave early. I thought it was pretty rude and disrespectful to stay for the hits and then rush out for your 5th beer or 10th bathroom break when the band played a new song that you didn't know.

back when i went to see rush in high school in like 97, they came out and straight up played tom sawyer FIRST.
It was so awesome. To me it was like, "ok, if that's what you came for, there it was. Now we're gonna play the set."


Edit: reading up the thread...i liked scream too, but i like pretty much whatever timbaland touches.

[WorzelG]

wow, i do not like that. it sounds like he's trying to cash in on a musical trend that got big a few years ago (R&B infused electronic), and his voice doesn't suit it at all. also, those lyrics are ATROCIOUS and super sexist. granted, i was in an abusive relationship where my girlfriend constantly manipulated me, and i've written plenty of songs about it, but none of them were so trite and obvious.

I can see why someone wouldn't like it, to be fair to you the lyrics didn't seem to suggest there was anything manipulative about 'his woman' just she was giving him brainache talking to him and having opinions cutting into his looking moody and sullen time. That bitch

[GulDukat]

I dunno, as long as a person isn't a drunken asshole or causing problems or being loud/obnoxious or CONSTANTLY getting up and walking through rows they should do as they please. Someone pays for a ticket then it's their call what they wanna hear and see and leave when necessary. Happens at every concert, not everyone's an uber-fan (and if only super fans were allowed into concerts ticket sales would drop by about 90%), and a lot of people gotta go home or wake up for work the next morning.

This is is in general, not just SP.

I agree to a point. If someone gets up once or twice, okay, but six times? Getting a drink, bathroom, drink, bathroom, drink, bathroom, drink, bathroom, drink, bathroom, Facebook update... Seems rather gauche.

How do you think Billy or anyone would feel when they see rows of people make a mass exodus when a new song is played? Yes, they are free to go, but I'd be upset about that too.

[allegro]

In Chicago, people have been doing that (beer, pee, beer, pee, x 10) for at least 15 years, and it drives ME fucking nuts, but Billy has either been high or has amnesia or his ego is the size of Montana. I've been at non-Pumpkins shows when Billy is there and he's always in some VIP balcony somewhere (you can spot his glowing head from outer space) so he doesn't have to deal with the hoi polloi. Billy is "upset" about pretty much everything these days, he is a really whiny dude who needs perspective. If this bothers him that much, it's time to retire and spend his time golfing with a bunch of Jewish lawyers where he can kvetch and whine all day long.

[elevenism]

i heard...HEARD...and i'm not sure that it's true, that a few years ago in dallas, SP let all the assholes leave, came out a WHILE later, said something to the effect of "alright, now that all those people are gone, we're gonna play for the real fans!" or something like that, and played like 8 or 9 more songs.

edit: as for Chris Cornell and Scream, i don't think they were trying to cash in on some fad. I think that they were doing whatever the fuck they wanted.
I don't really know all the lyrics. @eversonpoe , i assume you're referring to the "that bitch...." line in the single.
TBH, that's about the only line i know in the track.

I just fucking ADORE timbaland's production, and i think Cornell's voice creates an interesting juxtaposition of sounds and genres. I thought it was kind of 20XX groundbreaking type shit.

That being said, i can damn sure see why people wouldn't like it as well. My mom is a soundgarden/CC nut. She ran out and got the record, listened to it for a few minutes, and gave it to me like it was a shit sandwich, and someone had sold it to her, and she thought "Hey, my son LIKES shit sandwiches!" She seriously didn't look happy even holding it.
I guess it's kind of like a real life Strobelight. Come to think of it, which came first?!?!?!

[GulDukat]

In Chicago, people have been doing that (beer, pee, beer, pee, x 10) for at least 15 years, and it drives ME fucking nuts, but Billy has either been high or has amnesia or his ego is the size of Montana. I've been at non-Pumpkins shows when Billy is there and he's always in some VIP balcony somewhere (you can spot his glowing head from outer space) so he doesn't have to deal with the hoi polloi. Billy is "upset" about pretty much everything these days, he is a really whiny dude who needs perspective. If this bothers him that much, it's time to retire and spend his time golfing with a bunch of Jewish lawyers where he can kvetch and whine all day long.

He might be happier watching Star Trek with his cats.

[Krazy]

How do you think Billy or anyone would feel when they see rows of people make a mass exodus when a new song is played? Yes, they are free to go, but I'd be upset about that too.

Hes the one that signed up for a co-headlining tour. If he's that concerned about fans leaving early maybe he should let management book small theaters and charge $200 a pop.

[frankie teardrop]

I don't usually denounce the dude, but @Krazy has a point. Sure, it's frustrating, but the nature of summer shed/amphitheater tours (especially co-headling nostalgia acts) is that you are going to attract several fairweather fans, most of which bought cheap tickets just to hear a few songs they heard on the radar. If he wants the audience to be filled with die hards who stick around for the whole show, he's hitting the wrong markets and venues for sure.

[implanted_microchip]

If this bothers him that much, it's time to retire and spend his time golfing with a bunch of Jewish lawyers where he can kvetch and whine all day long.

Call Larry David, we've found the plot of Curb Your Enthusiasm season 9!

[Dr Channard]

The Richard Cheese cover of Rape Me is always playing in my head. Yes… always!

[eversonpoe]

He might be happier watching Star Trek with his cats.

i know i'd sure be happier watching star trek with my cats than...well, doing just about anything.

[tony.parente]

Is it controversial in this board to like deathcore?
Possibly my favorite bands right now are infant annihilatior, fit for an autopsy and thy art is murder.

SO GOOD

[Space Suicide]

Is it controversial in this board to like deathcore?
Possibly my favorite bands right now are infant annihilatior, fit for an autopsy and thy art is murder.

SO GOOD

Always. I don't consider deathcore good metal music at all.