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Thread: Controversial Music Opinions...

  1. #1501
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    Marilyn Manson at his combined musical, creative and visual peak was better than Trent at his personal peak.

  2. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    Marilyn Manson at his combined musical, creative and visual peak was better than Trent at his personal peak.
    Better at what? Having people write (Jeordie, Trent, Gacy, Berkowitz) produce (Trent) and design (Floria Sigismundi among others) stuff for him? Totally.

    I can agree that MM's image became more iconic than Trent's, but Trent never really catered towards the celebrity game. The term "better" alone says nothing and feels irrelevant since they weren't aiming at achieving the same goal.

    Had you said MM was bigger than Trent, then yes. He was.


    I haven't engaged in a mm vs. nin conversation since the 90's and hope I won't for another ten years.

  3. #1503
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    oh, awesome! another manson debate!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highly Psychological View Post
    The top 20 worst bands list - Sex Pistols were never really about the music - They were Malcom Mclaurens puppets. So i agree with the Faces comment. However as a cultural force their importance cant be under estimated.
    Lydons Public Image Ltd was musically a far, far, greater entity. Public Image is one of the greatest songs ever recorded.
    Couldn't agree more! also PIL is a very underrated group and just like Wire most of their best stuff was stolen in recent years by more successful groups (that doesn't necessary means "better groups")

    I also consider "Public Image Limited" (the song), one of the greatest punk-hymns (even bigger than "Anarchy in the UK"), i wonder what would have happened if the Sex Pistols recorded it...

  5. #1505
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    i actually enjoy the sex pistols for what they are- a fun, cacaphanous mess. 'bodies' was a great track. i also liked some of the alt/collaborations on the great rock and roll swindle, even if johnny didn't sing on some of the best tracks ('lonely boy'). steve jones also did some great stuff as the professionals, including the main track from ladies and gentlemen- the fabulous stains. i LOVE the rave up version of 'join the professionals.' steve jones was great, and even recorded some guitars for a few of the best songs on siouxsie's kaleidoscope, even though john mcgeoch (brilliant, brilliant guy) became the band's full time guitarist.

    but i do agree that PIL are light years better, diverse, and more interesting. their first record is a tighter, better played expansion of the sex pistols record with dub influences. metal box and flowers of romance are wonderful records, the latter almost tapping into neubauten territory, and i really enjoyed some of the more new wave records. happy is a great driving record, and 'the order of death' and 'this is not a love song' are classic cuts.

    so, i dig the sex pistols and all, but PIL >>>> sex pistols by a longshot.

  6. #1506
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    Quote Originally Posted by onthewall2983 View Post
    Lists like these are just an excuse for lack of journalism skills.
    Also a lack of web design skills. You have to click through 20 separate web pages to get to the end of the list? What is this, the 90s?

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankie teardrop View Post
    oh, awesome! another manson debate!
    Unfortunately I haven't listened to enough MM to have an opinion yet, so I'll just <reverb> stand over here </reverb> while you guys fight over it.

  8. #1508
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    Controversial Music Opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Senateguard33 View Post
    Ok, hopefully I don't get too much backlash for this one...

    I just don't find anything appealing about Queens Of The Stoneage or Autolux. I know they are very popular in the NIN community since they have had toured together and have had minor collaborations. They seem to be popular with newer/younger NIN fans. When I got into NIN in the mid 90s, Trent was raving about Coil, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Depeche Mode, The Cure etc. I found these groups to be mind blowing, but the newer crowd could care less and would rather listen to Tool or QOTSA. So am I missing something, or is it just some weird generational gap?
    I'm a little older than Trent and I LOVED Autolux's first album and I thought they were really great, live.

    And when Homme sang acapella in the Bell Centre in Montreal, I was floored. He is very talented.

    I don't know anybody who "prefers" these bands over the Cure of Depeche Mode, though. They're different types of music.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 11-07-2013 at 04:37 PM.

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senateguard33 View Post
    Also a lack of web design skills. You have to click through 20 separate web pages to get to the end of the list? What is this, the 90s?
    Actually, the reason for these slideshow click bait lists is a little more fascinating (and a lot more insidious) than that. This Onion article does a pretty damn good job of summing it all up.

  10. #1510
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankie teardrop View Post
    oh, awesome! another manson debate!
    I'm sorry. This never seems to get old to me. (I wonder if saying that counts as controversial opinion on its own.) But in all seriousness, yeah... I see how we end up with more than enough of that in the Marilyn Manson thread and the Nine Inch Nails section. But then again, this is the right thread to do it, if anything.

  11. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    Marilyn Manson at his combined musical, creative and visual peak was better than Trent at his personal peak.
    Is this The Downward Spiral versus Mechanical Animals? (With TDS losing out to MA?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobochic View Post
    Better at what? Having people write (Jeordie, Trent, Gacy, Berkowitz) produce (Trent) and design (Floria Sigismundi among others) stuff for him? Totally.

    I can agree that MM's image became more iconic than Trent's, but Trent never really catered towards the celebrity game. The term "better" alone says nothing and feels irrelevant since they weren't aiming at achieving the same goal.

    Had you said MM was bigger than Trent, then yes. He was.


    I haven't engaged in a mm vs. nin conversation since the 90's and hope I won't for another ten years.
    I was wondering about the same thing, and I'd agree that Marilyn Manson was a lot bigger too, especially by 1997-2001, and to my surprise, I've still met and spoke to Marilyn Manson fans that have never heard of Nine Inch Nails before.

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    I consider The Music, one of the best british bands ever and it's such a shame nobody remembers them.... they deserved better (in terms of popularity...)

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    Controversial Music Opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    I consider The Music, one of the best british bands ever and it's such a shame nobody remembers them.... they deserved better (in terms of popularity...)
    They had the skinny singer, had the hit then came out with another badass tune couple years later? If so I was actually just thinking about these guys the other day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    I consider The Music, one of the best british bands ever and it's such a shame nobody remembers them.... they deserved better (in terms of popularity...)
    I still really really really really really like their first album. The other 2 have some pretty ace tracks, but that first album is flat-out killer front-to-back. Coincidentally, I got "The People" stuck in my head on the way to work this morning out of nowhere. Weird.

    I'd say that their (silly) unGoogleable name may have a role to play in the fact they were (relatively) neglected. They did the overblown, pompous, electronic-tinged arena rock thing a hell of a lot better than Muse, for example.

    This track remains one of my favourite album openers:
    Last edited by xmd 5a; 11-08-2013 at 03:09 AM.

  16. #1516
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    seriously, calling your band "The Music" is perhaps an even worse decision than calling your band "Live"

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    I think "!!!" beats them on the internet invisibility front, though. At least, "The Music" brings some results back, as random as they are. But that is indeed a very silly decision.

  18. #1518
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    I remember hating Lacuna Coil and This Mortal Coil for making me have to type "-lacuna +coil -this -mortal" in search engines just to find what I wanted from Coil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    I think "!!!" beats them on the internet invisibility front, though. At least, "The Music" brings some results back, as random as they are. But that is indeed a very silly decision.
    Though you can Google/YouTube them via "chk chk chk".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    seriously, calling your band "The Music" is perhaps an even worse decision than calling your band "Live"
    Those names would've worked well with this kind of bit. I know, it's a bit random for me to be posting this here, as it just reminded me of this.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hobochic View Post
    I remember hating Lacuna Coil and This Mortal Coil for making me have to type "-lacuna +coil -this -mortal" in search engines just to find what I wanted from Coil.
    reminds me of good ol' bashorg quote: http://bash.org/?514353

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    I consider The Music, one of the best british bands ever and it's such a shame nobody remembers them.... they deserved better (in terms of popularity...)
    Welcome to the North is one of the best albums I ever bought. It's really perfect.

  23. #1523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    Is this The Downward Spiral versus Mechanical Animals? (With TDS losing out to MA?)
    Well they wern't released at the same time but in regards to the entire package (visuals, promotion, hype, and musically) I would say MA won out. Musically TDS is a little better but overall I liked MA better.

  24. #1524
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmd 5a View Post
    I still really really really really really like their first album. The other 2 have some pretty ace tracks, but that first album is flat-out killer front-to-back. Coincidentally, I got "The People" stuck in my head on the way to work this morning out of nowhere. Weird.

    I'd say that their (silly) unGoogleable name may have a role to play in the fact they were (relatively) neglected. They did the overblown, pompous, electronic-tinged arena rock thing a hell of a lot better than Muse, for example.
    Woa, i didn't expected so much love for them!, this forum never disappoints me!

    I agree the first album is boss! awesome from start till end, still the second and third albums have great tracks, yesterday i was listening to "Welcome to the North" and it reminded me how good this band was!

    I agree with your Muse comment, actually everything Muse "has" right now, the Music deserved... and in my opinion they were better by far...

    I also agree with you guys about the "name issue", it was a dumb decision and it's funny how they are so hard to google, yesterday i was looking for a video for "Fight The Feeling" by them and i ended up with a Shaggy song for whatever reason...

    For me it's all about this song, actually this is the one that reminded me how much i used to like them! (and i still do...)

    Last edited by henryeatscereal; 11-08-2013 at 10:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    I agree the first album is boss! awesome from start till end, still the second and third albums have great tracks, yesterday i was listening to "Welcome to the North" and it reminded me how good this band was!
    No trouble finding them in Spotify, so that's another one for my commuting playlist.

    (Spotify, of course, has its own problems. God forbid two bands have the same fucking name.)

  26. #1526
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    well in all fairness, they probably shouldn't have in the first place...

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankie teardrop View Post
    well in all fairness, they probably shouldn't have in the first place...
    I know a lot of bands have had to change their names when they discovered someone else already had it, but that doesn't work in our much more international age.

    Depending on where you click, you can end up with Toy, Toy and Toy on the same page in Spotify.

    I'll grant you that Amazon and iTunes aren't much better. But IMDB figured out a long time ago how to deal with People-Who-Have-The-Same-Name-But-Are-Not-The-Same-Fucking-People. Wikipedia has disambiguation pages. Get with the program already!

    *grumble* This is an old hobbyhorse of mine.

  28. #1528
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    i guess i just have a hard time reconciling the idea of a new band who doesn't google first to make sure the name isn't taken/currently in use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Prevention Hotline View Post
    I know a lot of bands have had to change their names when they discovered someone else already had it, but that doesn't work in our much more international age.

    Depending on where you click, you can end up with Toy, Toy and Toy on the same page in Spotify.

    I'll grant you that Amazon and iTunes aren't much better. But IMDB figured out a long time ago how to deal with People-Who-Have-The-Same-Name-But-Are-Not-The-Same-Fucking-People. Wikipedia has disambiguation pages. Get with the program already!

    *grumble* This is an old hobbyhorse of mine.
    It's especially annoying on Last.FM. See Weekend and Heavenly for some particularly amusing examples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmd 5a View Post
    It's especially annoying on Last.FM. See Weekend and Heavenly for some particularly amusing examples.
    Give 'em credit for making an effort to keep them all straight:

    Quote Originally Posted by last.fm
    At least seven bands have used this name, although all but one are very recent.
    Spotify has at least two of the Weekends intermingled, and it looks like they actually have more than two Heavenlys.

    And it doesn't have to be bands — Spotify's page for "John Williams" used to include the classical guitarist and the soundtrack composer on one unreadably long page. (I bet no one told either of them to find a new name.)

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