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Thread: Controversial Music Opinions...

  1. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    Also if I'm talking about bat NIN support acts, I've never liked Saul Williams and never understood why everyone here on ETS gives him a handjob.
    Hey now....

  2. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    Also if I'm talking about bat NIN support acts, I've never liked Saul Williams and never understood why everyone here on ETS gives him a handjob.
    I haven't given a shit about his music since his involvement with Trent, but I still absolutely love the majority of his older stuff. His spoken word performances are superb. I lost all interest in his new music after a few listens of Niggy Tardust. The music was okay, but his lyrics took a MASSIVE dive from that album on. Sadface.

  3. #663
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    Off topic, and, hell, I can't even remember if I've posted this already or not, but here goes. I really, truly loathe Radiohead's "Creep". Like, it gives me a rash. And the shits. I'm even cool with everything else off Pablo Honey, but "Creep" is vile. I saw Radiohead in Vancouver and the show was a classic, made exponentially better by them not playing it.

  4. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCalx View Post
    Off topic, and, hell, I can't even remember if I've posted this already or not, but here goes. I really, truly loathe Radiohead's "Creep". Like, it gives me a rash. And the shits. I'm even cool with everything else off Pablo Honey, but "Creep" is vile. I saw Radiohead in Vancouver and the show was a classic, made exponentially better by them not playing it.
    That's not controversial, everyone knows that Creep is one of Radiohead's shittiest songs! (I love the band but i could care less about this song!)

  5. #665
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    You mean you "Couldn't" care less...

    I hate the studio version of Creep, but the version on the Astoria dvd is amazing.

  6. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbron View Post
    I haven't given a shit about his music since his involvement with Trent, but I still absolutely love the majority of his older stuff. His spoken word performances are superb. I lost all interest in his new music after a few listens of Niggy Tardust. The music was okay, but his lyrics took a MASSIVE dive from that album on. Sadface.
    See, I don't even like his spoken word performances, I just think he's boring. The first album was merely okay, but Niggy Tardust was awful and was treated like it was Illmatic or some shit. I think the only thing I found sort of entertaining was that I believe CX Kidtronix was his DJ when he supported NIN, and he danced like Swizz Beats, other than that he's as boring as it gets.

  7. #667
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    I'd take Saul Williams over most of the stuff that's labeled "hip hop" these days. His stuff at least has some semblance of heart and intelligence.

  8. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    I'd take Saul Williams over most of the stuff that's labeled "hip hop" these days. His stuff at least has some semblance of heart and intelligence.
    Well see, that's the problem. He's one of those guys that gets those labels of "real hip-hop" and he's really not that good at being a hip hop artist as he is just doing beat poetry to beats. Give me guys like Mos, Talib, Black Thought, or Common any day. Hell, give me Pusha T over him, give my Yeezy and Jay-Z over him. Have all the intelligence you want in your music, but a guy like Saul comes off as too self serious and "look at how much smarter I am than my counterparts", that it becomes "well, what's the big deal about this guy anyway"? I think it's my problem with hip-hop as a whole, the artists that are supposed to be thought proving (like Saul) just kind of suck, and the counterparts like Jigga, Yeezy, and even Lil Wayne are arguably making more interesting music than they are and are extremely clever and living in that moment and owning it.

  9. #669
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    I kinda echo that Saul Williams opinion from a few posts above and around me. I mean I sort of like him, but he's not all that great and he is entirely overblown.

  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    Well see, that's the problem. He's one of those guys that gets those labels of "real hip-hop" and he's really not that good at being a hip hop artist as he is just doing beat poetry to beats.
    Eh, labels. I still count it as hip hop, even if it's not traditional.

    Have all the intelligence you want in your music, but a guy like Saul comes off as too self serious and "look at how much smarter I am than my counterparts", that it becomes "well, what's the big deal about this guy anyway"?
    You're essentially saying that he's pretentious, which I think is untrue. He's certainly not as pretentious as some of the people you listed. Every time one of those guys drops a new album, people shit themselves over it. Meanwhile, Saul had to work with Trent Reznor of all people to get any real interest going

    ...and the counterparts like Jigga, Yeezy, and even Lil Wayne are arguably making more interesting music than they are and are extremely clever and living in that moment and owning it.
    Maybe Jay-Z, but Kanye West and Lil Wayne? Please. You want to talk about people who think they're better than their counterparts but have nothing to back it up with, look no further than those two.

  11. #671
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    So what if he got to work with Trent? Karen O did, and that doesn't mean that the Yeah Yeah Yeahs are any better because of that.

    Kanye and Wayne have plenty of room to talk about how great they are. I won't tell you where either will rank when it's all said and done, but outside of 808's and Heartbreaks, Kanye West has put out one of the best runs in his discography of any artist in the past decade. Say what you will about the person, but in the booth and behind the mic, he's easily proven why the hip hop world revolves around him with each release because he puts out great work and got better with each release.

    I'll admit I'm biased about Weezy because I remember backing him and the Hot Boyz since grade school, but he's worked his ass off to get where he is, and he wasn't even the one that Cash Money had picked to be the star of the group. Tha Block is Hot was an awesome debut and then he sort of went stale afterward, but after he dropped the first two Drought mixtapes, it was clear he switched up his style and flow (from the bad southern style to contemporary) and it was much better. Then dropped Tha Carter 2 which is easily his best album launching him to the guy we know now. I know since Tha Carter 3 he's been hit or miss, but the No Ceilings mixtape and Sorry for the Wait, as well as I Am Not a Human Being were all very good. Even if he is one of the people we usually point to for what's wrong with hip hop and it's culture, he's put out some awesome work and worked very hard to get there.

    Volcanic Sunlight was bad, Niggy Tardust was bad, and the only thing he's done worthwhile is a verse on a Janelle Monae song two years ago. I know he has his backers on here and people have met him, and he seems like a nice dude, but it doesn't change the fact that on here, he's completely overrated.

  12. #672
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    Cool story bro

    Afp doesn't do it for me, but I kickstartered her last whatsit out of curiosity. Haven't listened past the first track released yet. I'm cool with people liking her. Each to her own. Loads of people have armies of unwashed fans, doesn't strike me as particularly noteworthy for afp. It's not like NIN fans have a particularly good rep in that department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joymode View Post
    Hmm i went to see her and all i saw was a crap load of smelly dirty hipsters with no sense of personal hygiene rushing the stage to be closer to her. if thats the kind of people who love her "personality and larger than life persona" then count me out of that group. I like to take a shower at least once a day. And I dont think assholes are cool.

    I could keep going.. but why...?

    also Fuck Kanye west.
    If you're going to criticize her (and even as a huge fan, there's plenty to critique about her art form), do so in a more interesting and informed way than bagging on her or her fans for not taking showers. That's grade school stuff.

  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    Maybe Jay-Z, but Kanye West and Lil Wayne? Please. You want to talk about people who think they're better than their counterparts but have nothing to back it up with, look no further than those two.
    Yeah, I think this is pretty unfounded. If Kanye isn't to your taste that's terrific, but the music he's made over the years has been varied, ambitious, and (with a few missteps) uniformly excellent.

    For Wayne, though, I'm pretty much with you. He's a clever battle rapper with an interesting-sounding voice and great comic timing. Unfortunately, he lives in a small world and doesn't seem to be a very curious person, or even one who engages with the world at all, so all of his music is about Wayne and how interesting he is. Once the listener stops finding Wayne interesting (it's inevitable), the music loses its lustre. At this point in his career, I think even Wayne is bored of Wayne. He's alluded to as much in interviews.

    I still quote his old shit about as often as I quote The Simpsons, though.

  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCalx View Post
    Yeah, I think this is pretty unfounded. If Kanye isn't to your taste that's terrific, but the music he's made over the years has been varied, ambitious, and (with a few missteps) uniformly excellent.
    I think he's decent, but I'm referring to the fact that he has a massive ego about himself and his own work that doesn't match what he puts out, whereas someone like Saul Williams is much more grounded. I think if Williams had an ego like Kanye West, then yeah, his work wouldn't be that impressive, but he doesn't.

  16. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    I'd take Saul Williams over most of the stuff that's labeled "hip hop" these days. His stuff at least has some semblance of heart and intelligence.
    Killer Mike, to start? His last album was produced by El-P, a former Reznor collaborator, and sounds pretty much like what Saul would sound like if the dude could rap and was able to come down from the weird pseudoacademic world he inhabits from time to time.

    Hip hop is this enormous thing. It's been around for longer than thirty years at this point, it's been produced around the world in loads of different languages and has borrowed from hundreds if not thousands of other styles. There's Native Canadian hip-hop that samples traditional Native folk song. There's a hip-hop scene in France that's about as old as the one in New York and has produced innumerable artists, with its own subgenres, movements, and countermovements. There's even Japanese music that borrows from hip-hop despite the Japanese language being completely unsuitable for rapping. I say all this because even though it really shouldn't get to me at this point, part of me still winces when I see some overstuffed, know-it-all white male come around with a bunch of Dadrocking, "bitches and hoes", "anti-intellectual", "not even music", "commercial and soulless" clichéd horse shit. Stay ignorant if you want but keep your lips closed. On some level, you have to know, if you have any internet access at all, how foolish you sound coming around with those opinions in 2012.

  17. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    I think he's decent, but I'm referring to the fact that he has a massive ego about himself and his own work that doesn't match what he puts out, whereas someone like Saul Williams is much more grounded. I think if Williams had an ego like Kanye West, then yeah, his work wouldn't be that impressive, but he doesn't.
    The ego is schtick. It's, I would reckon, a pretty small part of Kanye's actual personality, and done mostly to drive publicity. His big gaffes, the awards show incidents, happened when he was shitfaced drunk and while I know that's hardly a good excuse, it at least makes it relatable. I know I've interrupted Taylor Swift after I've had a few too many, haven't we all?

    When Kanye West first came around as a solo artist, he rocked Cosby sweaters and presented a homespun, everyman image alongside the everyman-ish storytelling on the College Dropout album. The album sold moderately well, but Kanye, despite some interesting stories (rapping a song on the record while in traction following a near-fatal car accident) and some bold moves ("Jesus Walks", a song about West's highly personalized, and extremely unfashionable Christian faith released as a single during the absolute pinnacle of the 'bling bling' era), was not yet known as a media personality. He needed a new avenue to get some attention, so he cast himself as an entitled, vain villain. Kanye West's job is to attract attention. I've seen him live with Jay-Z, he is very good at it. Thanks to his attention-seeking and his sheer star power, we get to have crazy fucking records like My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, an amazing-sounding record that was commercial poison. Once a musician reaches Kanye-level celebrity, they tend to be allowed to do whatever the hell they want in the booth. I'm arguing that it's a good thing that Kanye gets to do what he wants and indulge his dark, twisted fantasies.

    For what it's worth, everyone that I've read who's worked with Kanye or gotten to know him has a pretty high opinion of his conduct. They say that he's hardworking, manic at times, occasionally in his own world, but considerate and polite. The persona is obnoxious but it doesn't bother me. I don't have to spend any time with Kanye West, in or out of character. If he gets too shrill I can turn him down, or turn him off.

  18. #678
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    Not too controversial elsewhere, but here it probably is. I fucking love Drake.

  19. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCalx View Post
    Killer Mike, to start? His last album was produced by El-P, a former Reznor collaborator, and sounds pretty much like what Saul would sound like if the dude could rap and was able to come down from the weird pseudoacademic world he inhabits from time to time.

    Hip hop is this enormous thing. It's been around for longer than thirty years at this point, it's been produced around the world in loads of different languages and has borrowed from hundreds if not thousands of other styles. There's Native Canadian hip-hop that samples traditional Native folk song. There's a hip-hop scene in France that's about as old as the one in New York and has produced innumerable artists, with its own subgenres, movements, and countermovements. There's even Japanese music that borrows from hip-hop despite the Japanese language being completely unsuitable for rapping. I say all this because even though it really shouldn't get to me at this point, part of me still winces when I see some overstuffed, know-it-all white male come around with a bunch of Dadrocking, "bitches and hoes", "anti-intellectual", "not even music", "commercial and soulless" clichéd horse shit. Stay ignorant if you want but keep your lips closed. On some level, you have to know, if you have any internet access at all, how foolish you sound coming around with those opinions in 2012.
    You don't need to school me on hip hop's influence just because I don't "bow in the presence of greatness" whenever somebody brings up Kanye West. And whether or not his ego is shtick doesn't matter to me, it's still ridiculous. Like I said, overall I think he's decent, but the ego simply does not match the output in my opinion, no matter how many Top 10 lists he appears on.

    And I'm not trying to be a know-it-all (though, with your apparently vast knowledge of hip hop, you kind of come across as one). I'm just saying that nothing that a lot of these guys have put out has moved me the way Saul Williams' records have (hence the "heart and intelligence" comment). That doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong, that just means that it doesn't make me feel the same way it makes you feel. And I'm ignorant simply because I don't think Kanye West or Jay-Z are god's gifts to hip hop? Please.

  20. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clownboat View Post
    Not too controversial elsewhere, but here it probably is. I fucking love Drake.
    You're not the only one. He's better at this point than Wayne who basically got him on the scene.


    And to whoever mentioned Killer Mike, dude has absolutely put out my favorite hip hop album of the year.

  21. #681
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    Lil Wayne is awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carpenoctem View Post
    If you're going to criticize her (and even as a huge fan, there's plenty to critique about her art form), do so in a more interesting and informed way than bagging on her or her fans for not taking showers. That's grade school stuff.

    okay. let me be more clear. she cant sing on key. she plays piano super sloppy. she's self righteous and obnoxious as hell. self centered. also i've met her 3 times and shes not gracious.

    The production required to make her music sound decent is insane.

    my wife is (or was) a gigantic dresden dolls fan. I took her to see Amanda Palmer at the music box in LA and she asked if we could leave half way through.

    RE: her fans, I've never actually gagged at a show from the smell of a group of people except for at an amanda palmer show. the people she attracts to her shows (at least in LA) are pure trash. Its just disgusting. Take a damn shower. shit.

    Everybody kisses this woman's ass like she's the second coming of christ. and it annoys the hell out of me. she had ONE relevant album, and she wasn't even the freshest part of it.

    that drummer. thats the dude right there.
    Last edited by DVYDRNS; 09-14-2012 at 09:40 PM.

  23. #683
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    Joymode, I may not fully be on board with what you said (not heard enough Amanda Palmer to weigh in), but goddamn if I didn't laugh my head off at the way you said it. I quoted it to my girlfriend and our buddy and they damn near died laughing too.

  24. #684
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    I love my fans.

  25. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by joymode View Post
    okay. let me be more clear. she cant sing on key. she plays piano super sloppy. she's self righteous and obnoxious as hell. self centered. also i've met her 3 times and shes not gracious.

    The production required to make her music sound decent is insane.

    my wife is (or was) a gigantic dresden dolls fan. I took her to see Amanda Palmer at the music box in LA and she asked if we could leave half way through.

    RE: her fans, I've never actually gagged at a show from the smell of a group of people except for at an amanda palmer show. the people she attracts to her shows (at least in LA) are pure trash. Its just disgusting. Take a damn shower. shit.

    Everybody kisses this woman's ass like she's the second coming of christ. and it annoys the hell out of me. she had ONE relevant album, and she wasn't even the freshest part of it.

    that drummer. thats the dude right there.
    Now that's more like it!

    Although I would argue that "relevancy" is highly subjective. All of her music is relevant to me, but I can't think of a single thing she's recorded that is considered vital by any of today's popular music critics. When she gets in the news, as she is doing now, it's because people are mad at her for not paying her backing musicians. Controversy trumps music every time, at least in the headlines.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCalx
    When Kanye West first came around as a solo artist, he rocked Cosby sweaters and presented a homespun, everyman image alongside the everyman-ish storytelling on the College Dropout album. The album sold moderately well, but Kanye, despite some interesting stories (rapping a song on the record while in traction following a near-fatal car accident) and some bold moves ("Jesus Walks", a song about West's highly personalized, and extremely unfashionable Christian faith released as a single during the absolute pinnacle of the 'bling bling' era), was not yet known as a media personality. He needed a new avenue to get some attention, so he cast himself as an entitled, vain villain. Kanye West's job is to attract attention. I've seen him live with Jay-Z, he is very good at it. Thanks to his attention-seeking and his sheer star power, we get to have crazy fucking records like My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, an amazing-sounding record that was commercial poison. Once a musician reaches Kanye-level celebrity, they tend to be allowed to do whatever the hell they want in the booth. I'm arguing that it's a good thing that Kanye gets to do what he wants and indulge his dark, twisted fantasies.
    It depresses me to think about whether or not Kanye's behavior is all shtick, because it reminds me how much of the entertainment industry is based on selling you an idea. Sometimes I wish more artists were allowed to be real, rather than roped into false theatrics or caricatures of themselves. That said, he's a pretty interesting figure, and his music is great. Twisted Fantasy is one of the best albums I've ever heard, all the way through, full stop - it's rare to hear that these days.
    Last edited by carpenoctem; 09-15-2012 at 01:49 AM.

  26. #686
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    Noise is my favorite genres of music. no melody, no consonance, no rhythm, no beat, nothing. just noise. its so beautiful and carnal that words cant describe how it speaks to me.

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    BlueCalx played the race card! Sir, you've been trolled.

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    The Lady Gaga show I saw two days ago undoubtedly pissed all over your favourites.

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    Fly By Night is Rush's best album. Signals is a close second.

  30. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by slave2thewage View Post
    The Lady Gaga show I saw two days ago undoubtedly pissed all over your favourites.
    And she laughed all the way to the bank.

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