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Thread: Controversial Music Opinions...

  1. #571
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    People who mock "laptop DJs," and maybe celebrate vinyl DJs on some elevated pedestal by virtue of the medium they use, are being fucking morons.

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    "spirit of Nine Inch Nails"
    You put this in quotes as if I said this, but this "spirit of NIN" stuff is all you: you are arguing with yourself here and with a point I never made. When I say "Star Trek is closer in spirit to Star Wars than to Roseanne" I am not saying that Star Trek embodies "the spirit of Star Wars." I am saying they are closer in spirit, or essence (or style, or genre, or whatever categorization you wish).

    As you yourself admit, this is a NIN board, so however ideal you'd like us all to be on the matter, the bands most discussed here are going to be ones with some kind of crossover (of style, of personnel - hence the endless Cortini thread, of ideology, of method) or some kind of connection or relation or resemblance to NIN: they are going to be closer to NIN in some way than the bands we don't discuss. But this is not a bad thing at all.

    But the point is you're likely to find NIN fans who like everything. That doesn't mean that the band has anything to do with NIN. Just because it may be more likely that a Nine Inch Nails fan will like Depeche Mode than Cher means absolutely nothing. It just means that some people have more predictable musical taste than others.
    Here's where we disagree. That NIN fans like "everything" is a testament to the diversity of TR's output: to what else would it be due? I wager Slipknot, or Cannibal Corpse fans, are less wide in their range of tastes than NIN fans.

    I agree it's annoying when some people bring every single point back to NIN (that competition introduction thread was particularly cringeworthy: "My name is Ben and I've been to 10000 NIN shows!"), but to me it's much more interesting to see the links between artists (say, between Cher and NIN, or KMFDM and Tina Turner) than to say these artists have nothing to do with each other, and people should have diverse tastes and constantly branch out into new things. We like things partly because they are familiar, because they remind us of something else, or have a link with music we like; we also like things because they are a little different; but it's much more difficult to like music that is completely unfamiliar to you. That you could dig TG and Miles after being exposed to NIN seems to me evidence of TR's broad palette (rather than NIN only acting as a gateway for you to other industrial bands, and your interest in Miles and Pink Floyd occurring entirely independently: but of course not being there I cannot know, only surmise; I like to think that these things are a bit more fluid than that): after being exposed to Cannibal Corpse I could get into other death metal bands, but not Miles Davis. We don't just jump from artist to artist without any kind of guide, we need to be shown the way, as it were, especially when we are young, then later we learn to do it ourselves. And, to me, the reason why the range of bands discussed here is so large is partly thanks to TR's wide palette.

    People who cling to music obsessively and never branch out into other things (or if they do, only look at it through the lens that respects some group that really impacted them) are kind of fucked up.
    I would say that discovering new music "through the lens" of "some group that really impacted them" can be very productive and open up all kinds of new avenues and provide a way to branch out, especially for most of us at the beginning. I discovered The Melvins because Kurt Cobain kept bigging them up. Should I have not listened to him?
    Last edited by aggroculture; 08-14-2012 at 09:22 AM.

  3. #573
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    There's some intellectual snobbery going on here. Maybe people once they've left college and start work don't have the time or inclination to listen to and absorb the output of hundreds of bands of varying genres, maybe they're just not THAT into music?

    The last band I got into enough to buy an album was IAMX because I really enjoyed them when they supported Gary Numan a few years ago. I have 2 kids now, I just don't go out that much anymore. Maybe when they're older I'll be able to do so again. So in the evenings I want to unwind with my husband so if we have music on at all, it's 80's pop music generally as it's the music we grew up with and is relaxing

    The quest to listen to every genre and band known to man comes over as actually more obsessive than someone into just one band
    Last edited by WorzelG; 08-14-2012 at 08:43 AM.

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    People who mock "laptop DJs," and maybe celebrate vinyl DJs on some elevated pedestal by virtue of the medium they use, are being fucking morons.
    explain further, please. because i feel that hunting down and owning the original recordings puts you in a different league than a dj who downloaded a bunch of lossy-sounding mp3s to spin. more often than not, i've found that laptop djs in my field are the scenester kids who move through fads, downloading, djing, and cashing in, exploiting the people who have made that their livelihood. they haven't spent time discovering and fawning over the music they're suddenly experts on, and this to me, is a huge problem and why i disagree with you completely.

    edit: to expand myself, there are always exceptions to both rules. some people really can't lug all those records, and i can understand that- but more often than not, i frown upon it. the key is to be a really unique and killer dj, and if you can actually achieve that, more power to you- but i hold laptop djs to a higher standard of quality- as in their mixing better be flawless and their selections completely off-the-chart because otherwise, i find it lazy, cold, and mechanical. there's something very human and very flawed about playing a record- queuing it up properly- dealing with skips and crackle and someone bumping the deck, and i appreciate that far more on an aesthetic level than someone who just pushes play and lets traktor do the work for them.
    Last edited by frankie teardrop; 08-14-2012 at 09:51 AM.

  5. #575
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    /\ Agree 100% (edit - with worzel, frankie pipped me to the post), obsessing over the old days can often be a sign that you've moved on in a bigger sense. I've got over a thousand records, been to hundreds of shows... I feel like I've conquered music by and large, and these days I have other priorities. There are many who are more into it than me - fair play to them & I have to say I am jealous of how much they get out of it.

    It kind of pains me to say it, because I identify as a rock music buff & think of myself as being more into it than most people - but at the end of the day, I suppose my enthusiasm does have a limit, and in many ways I've moved on.

    It fucking sucks to lose a lot of that enthusiasm, perhaps my yearning for those simpler times is why I like to harp on about the old bands
    Last edited by Sutekh; 08-14-2012 at 09:44 AM.

  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    Here's where we disagree. That NIN fans like "everything" is a testament to the diversity of TR's output: to what else would it be due? I wager Slipknot, or Cannibal Corpse fans, are less wide in their range of tastes than NIN fans.
    An interesting argument, and one I'm not sure I buy. I think I see where you're coming from: being into Reznor had me listening to Coil at 16, and Coil in turn gave me context and points of reference for other experimental electronic music. I don't think that NIN fandom necessarily precipitates an open mind, though, or contextualizes disparate genres for new music listeners. I think it's way more individual than that. I've known plenty of NIN fans (not the ones who frequent this board, thankfully) who think Depeche Mode are "synth fags". The biggest NIN fan I know personally has some opinions about hip-hop that skirt racism. For some listeners, NIN fandom leads to Psychic TV and Prince. For others, it leads to Rammstein and Evanescence. There are plenty of examples of both ends of the spectrum here on ETS. As an aside, Cannibal Corpse's old guitarist, Jack Owen, used to moonlight with a bluegrass band. There must be some crossover - not even the staunchest metalheads like just one kind of music.

    I think we're circling two interesting topics, though, those being the identity politics of music fandom and the way that the act of 'being a fan' changes with age. At 14, I claimed that NIN was my favourite band, and that felt like declaring a big part of my identity. I bought into all the cliches - I cut my hair like TR's, I increased the amount of black in my wardrobe by 1000%, I copped a sullen attitude. By 16, that had become embarrassing. I still used music as an identity signifier, but the identity I was going for was "music encyclopedia" rather than "faux-goth fanboy". I started collecting vinyl and started listening to artists from every genre, even the unhip or inaccessible ones. NIN ceded a lot of relevance to me then. With all the new stuff I was taking in, I didn't have time for obsessive devotion, and Trent, with his sleepy output schedule and his goofy lyrics, started to look gauche. The point that I'm trying to make here is that when I started listening to music, it was mostly circumstance that drove me to NIN: they had a new album coming out (The Fragile), my best friend loved them to death, I thought, "Alright, I'll check this out" and ended up loving it. I think that could have happened with any band - Smashing Pumpkins, Slipknot, Wu-Tang, whomever - and that my taste has a lot more to do with what continues to resonate with me than it does with what resonated with me when I was much younger.
    Last edited by BlueCalx; 08-14-2012 at 02:59 PM.

  7. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    I would say that discovering new music "through the lens" of "some group that really impacted them" can be very productive and open up all kinds of new avenues and provide a way to branch out, especially for most of us at the beginning. I discovered The Melvins because Kurt Cobain kept bigging them up. Should I have not listened to him?
    With the key part being "at the beginning." As in, when you're first getting into music or discovering a new genre, it helps to have reference points.

    And you're missing my point if you're thinking I'm saying that's a bad thing. The bad part is if you stopped there at The Melvins, and keep thinking about them as being somehow associated with (or even living under the shadow of) Nirvana in your mind.
    I guess you could also draw a line from Nirvana to Sonic Youth to Pavement to The Fall, if you think that's useful.

    I got into Cannibal Corpse when I was into metal... around the same time I got into Kate Bush, and it had nothing to do with the fact that she shares stylistic elements with Tori Amos, who once upon a time had that guy from Nine Inch Nails sing back-up vocals on one of her songs. On that note, I don't even know what band really got me into Metal. The first metal band I remember hearing was Metallica. Does that mean something? Anything?

    Just because someone has wound up on this board and is talking about music doesn't mean they're necessarily doing so from the vantage point where Nine Inch Nails is (or ever was) the center of their universe. They might just like NIN, along with a thousand other unrelated bands that fall into different genres. You'd hope that would spark discussions about bands that have almost nothing in common with Nine Inch Nails... like, I dunno, Sigur Ros since you brought them up earlier. I'd prefer to read a discussion that goes further off the deep end than that, but at the very least it's a refreshing break from discussions centered around Tool, Tool side projects, and discussions about industrial related music.

    Don't get me wrong, I love industrial music. I could chat all day about Einsturzende Neubauten. But the initial point of disagreement here is that the breadth of discussion on this board is narrowing into something that almost comes across as insular and closed minded. WorzelG, if preferring broader discussion that covers more genres makes me "obsessive," I don't see that as being necessarily a bad thing.

  8. #578
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    It's not preferring broader discussion, it's believing that people not on the John Peel trip are somehow stunted

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    It's not preferring broader discussion, it's believing that people not on the John Peel trip are somehow stunted
    Is anyone saying that, though? This is A Message Board About Music - if you think it's valuable to sit around online and discuss the hows, whys, and wherefores of music you like with complete strangers, chances are you are more invested in music in general than your mom or your neighbour. Even if you only like NIN or, hell, even if you think Marilyn Manson is the best. It's a funny special interest group. Casual listeners tend not to stick around, but not because they get bullied, rather because they get bored. I don't read much snobbery coming off of anyone posting here.

  10. #580
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    people are saying things like "stop being obsessive children" and "is this 2003?", and so on. I understand how tedious it must be if you wore out discussion of 90s/00s stuff in the 90s and 00s, but not everyone has. I don't mind people complaining either but I would just like to point out that not everyone who likes to chat about or pay attention to irrelevant oldies does so because they're stunted or narrow minded

    - I wouldn't say there was a snobbish element but I detect a hint of withering condescension

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    i'm of the belief that the younger you are, the more bands leave an impression on you- as you don't have the broader knowledge and taste. when i was young, i was stuck with the albums i had until i could afford to buy more, so i spent more time obsessing and devouring those records. combine that with limited exposure (hearing about things primarily through word of mouth, magazines/mtv, and from shadowing my favorite artist's influences, not to mention having to hunt down to find that record once i heard about it), and it seemed easier to get obsessed with one band/have a favorite band and stick to it.

    i find that in the downloading/blog age, where it's easier to literally acquire hundreds of albums for free with the touch of a button (makes for many john peels who sometimes don't own a single piece of music in the flesh)- it makes the experience a little less personal. that's not necessarily a bad thing- less mainstream bands certainly benefit from the added exposure and the ease of circulation that the internet has provided. but what you also get is bands blowing up too big, too fast, or having a million "fans" but still playing small venues when touring. for better or for worse, people seem to have poor attention spans when it comes to music. it's hard to qualify what older folks went through or how/if they're expanding their musical taste, especially parents who aren't as internet savvy, when most of us grew up in a very transitional era where we (or at least i) can see both sides of the spectrum. it seems more acceptable now to have john peel level knowledge because it IS easier to learn about/acquire new music with minimal effort. that doesn't mean that people who like musical casually or don't have the interest to dig deeper are necessarily stunted, but it certainly seems that way at first glance. the tools are there, but how do you qualify something like this?

    if people want to just listen to the same bands that they grew up with, and are aware that there are other alternatives and easier means to find different things, then more power to them, you know? if they literally don't know how to find new music, just give them a push. who is anyone to say that people need to step outside of their comfort zone though? ignorance vs. stubbornness is a factor here.

    just thinking about how many external factors there are vs. all of our personal experiences and what you have is a chalkboard full of equations and alternate outcomes and now i have a headache.
    Last edited by frankie teardrop; 08-14-2012 at 05:10 PM. Reason: expanding

  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    But the initial point of disagreement here is that the breadth of discussion on this board is narrowing into something that almost comes across as insular and closed minded.
    And that's why I don't like it when people on this board give other people shit about starting threads regarding bands they like. That whole shitshow in the Guns n Roses thread -- if that W Axl Rose guy wants to post news updates, good for him. I'll take dozens of those posts over "omg u r still here" and "stop posting no one reads ur shit this band is lame" posts.

    I'd love to see the music forum blossom more. Maybe part of it is because I haven't been watching threads and splitting them out - although I know that pisses people off. When a thread goes off-topic enough, splitting the OT posts into their own thread usually works out for the best - either that new thread grows as a valid topic, or withers away because it wasn't worth discussing in the first place.

    I wish there were some kind of incentive to better draw more people to these forums. I think that ETS is in a better spot than it's been in the past. I just want more, hehe.

  13. #583
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    people are saying things like "stop being obsessive children" and "is this 2003?", and so on. I understand how tedious it must be if you wore out discussion of 90s/00s stuff in the 00s and 00s, but not everyone has. I don't mind people complaining either but I would just like to point out that not everyone who likes to chat about or pay attention to irrelevant oldies does so because they're stunted or narrow minded

    - I wouldn't say there was a snobbish element but I detect a hint of withering condescension
    I thought that was the point of this thread, though? As in, "I've got nothing to say to this music and I find it a bit silly, but looking at the top threads here I can see I'm in the minority." Part of the fun of posting here is to go against the grain and let off some steam. It would be different, I think, if these people turned up in the Manson, Tool, SOAD threads and started saying "Get with the times!"

    Personally, I've got fuck-all to say about bands that stopped recording in 2006 and in the nastier corners of my heart I do kind of wish those acts would buzz off completely, but I also understand the value of nostalgia and have better things to do than chastise the people who do find that stuff relevant. I've often wondered, actually, what keeps the non-modern rock fans coming back to this board. Wouldn't it be easier to post to places like Dissensus or ILM? For me, I rather enjoy the feeling of being a horse of a different colour - on a board where everyone has a similar attitude and a similar playlist to mine, no one would pay me any attention! I wonder if that's the same for some of the other folks around here.

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Just because someone has wound up on this board and is talking about music doesn't mean they're necessarily doing so from the vantage point where Nine Inch Nails is (or ever was) the center of their universe. They might just like NIN, along with a thousand other unrelated bands that fall into different genres.
    Fair enough.
    But I don't see the scope of this board as narrowing. In fact, I think it's broader and more tolerant at this point than I've found it since joining in, 2005 I think. Now you can pretty much start a thread on any band without being shot down in flames by the taste police as might have been the case as recently as a couple of years ago. To me the main problem is that interesting conversation about music - and I think Bluecalx made this point earlier - doesn't necessarily occur in threads about bands, either the long ones about big bands that get constant updates, or the short ones about obscurer bands that get a few responses then sink, to be sporadically updated - we can count out the threads that are kept going by one person. I don't really know what to suggest except more of this type of threads

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCalx View Post
    Is anyone saying that, though?
    Yes, I think you did with your quip about "rock bros." I dig that there are discussions here about Type O Negative, Korn and SOAD. I don't think this narrows or devalues the board in any way. The Manson thread is a little scary to me because I don't understand that level of fandom for anyone, let alone Manson. But I'm glad it's there to dip into, and in every case I favor tolerance over the policing of taste...I don't understand what the so-called rock bros have to be ashamed about here, it's not like discussions about Nickelback or Five Finger Death Punch are taking over the board. To many TR is a rock bro. Ask Nivek Ogre. Ask Vinnie Paul and he'll tell you NIN makes great music for his strippers to shake their breasts to.

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    yeah like I say, I have no problem with it, but saying "it's lame/backward to still be talking about such and such" is not really an opinion on the recorded output of artists. I'm not asking anyone to shut up though - not denying people's chance to voice their opinion, I'm just challenging the opinion itself

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    while i can't stand the music that these so-called "rock bros" post about incessantly, i don't fault them for it. let someone talk about/post about what they enjoy, so long as there's discussion to be had and people are sticking to the rules. of course, the tool/manson thread is often questionable in content/relevance from a message board point of view (and of course we get duplicate threads from board members who don't do a little homework first)...but hey.

    let's put it this way- is it lame for me to continually harp on about sounds from previous decades that no one gave a shit about in the first place? from a certain point of view, sure! all i can hope to do is share my experiences/tastes with y'all and maybe some of it will resonate with others around here. i'm not gonna stop anyone here from talking about what they want to and i'm sure as hell not going to stop doing what i do.


    edit: levi pretty much summed my feelings up in a clearer fashion.
    Last edited by frankie teardrop; 08-14-2012 at 05:20 PM.

  17. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    Yes, I think you did with your quip about "rock bros."
    Well, hell, on one level, I'm a rock bro. And if we're talking about current vs. retro (which does keep coming up here), I certainly date myself by wanting to bang on about Morrissey at every opportunity. And by picking the name "BlueCalx" when Aphex Twin's done not much but tool around the Cornish countryside in his Hummer for time out of mind. I didn't mean "rock bro" as a dismissal or a slam, even with the silly tilda points surrounding the term. What I meant is that although the board appears to be dominated by discussion of bands that, to many, are dinosaurs, there's a lot more than that going on, and that one shouldn't expect to be shat upon by a strawman legion of neanderthals if one decides to start a thread about, say, Solomon Burke. Does that make any sense at all?

  18. #588
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    It makes sense to not want that to happen & to feel disappointed if it actually did - but did you ever start a thread about something like that and get that kind of reaction? Shame if you did & I wouldn't expect it here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    It makes sense to not want that to happen & to feel disappointed if it actually did - but did you ever start a thread about something like that and get that kind of reaction? Shame if you did & I wouldn't expect it here
    No. The worst that seems to happen here is ambivalence/silence, and given how cruel people in general tend to be on the internet, I think that that's actually amazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    How about this... is your dad still actively hunting out new music?
    Yep. Some of it I tell him about, because I'm mostly into current stuff or from the last ten or fifteen years, but sometimes he'll come up to me having heard about some recent album completely independently, and ask me to burn him a copy. Probably though it's just like I've heard most people say: you'll always be most into what you were into when you were younger (i.e. teens and twenties).

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCalx View Post
    No. The worst that seems to happen here is ambivalence/silence, and given how cruel people in general tend to be on the internet, I think that that's actually amazing.
    So one doesn't expect to be shat upon by a legion on knuckle dragging hellyeah fans...

    Yes this forum is a lot more civilised, generally speaking I stay away from forums and certainly comments sections on news websites (apart from blabbermouth, because it is jokes)

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    Of course! That's what I was saying, and trying to clarify in my second post about it. To a new-ish poster it might look insular or unfriendly, but it really isn't.

  23. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I love industrial music. I could chat all day about Einsturzende Neubauten. But the initial point of disagreement here is that the breadth of discussion on this board is narrowing into something that almost comes across as insular and closed minded. WorzelG, if preferring broader discussion that covers more genres makes me "obsessive," I don't see that as being necessarily a bad thing.
    Ha, yes, I guess I didn't mean to be offensive, and it's fine, I was feeling a bit stung when you said people listening to the same thing all the time were kind of fucked up, because I know I should listen to more music, but just never get around to it. I want to expose my kids to more music too, but my 4 year old has become a bit obsessed with A-Ha's Scoundrel Days album because I was playing Manhattan Skyline one day - he insists on it being played in entirety almost every day. I'm trying to play classical music to them too

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankieteardrop View Post
    explain further, please. because i feel that hunting down and owning the original recordings puts you in a different league than a dj who downloaded a bunch of lossy-sounding mp3s to spin. more often than not, i've found that laptop djs in my field are the scenester kids who move through fads, downloading, djing, and cashing in, exploiting the people who have made that their livelihood. they haven't spent time discovering and fawning over the music they're suddenly experts on, and this to me, is a huge problem and why i disagree with you completely.

    edit: to expand myself, there are always exceptions to both rules. some people really can't lug all those records, and i can understand that- but more often than not, i frown upon it. the key is to be a really unique and killer dj, and if you can actually achieve that, more power to you- but i hold laptop djs to a higher standard of quality- as in their mixing better be flawless and their selections completely off-the-chart because otherwise, i find it lazy, cold, and mechanical. there's something very human and very flawed about playing a record- queuing it up properly- dealing with skips and crackle and someone bumping the deck, and i appreciate that far more on an aesthetic level than someone who just pushes play and lets traktor do the work for them.
    I hear your point, and I somewhat agree. I think it's only a good thing for a DJ to cut his teeth on actual vinyl, learn how to beat match without detection aids. Chances are that they'll be better DJs for having done so... and yes, collecting the physical records shows dedication.

    The thing is, a lot of my friends, especially people who have a huge vinyl collection, show open disdain for DJs who use a computer, and they don't acknowledge the benefits a computer provides. You don't really see the same disdain towards vinyl DJs from laptop guys... and very frequently I'll meet vinyl purists who love to talk shit but can't really beatmatch... so it goes both ways.

    The laptop and DJ software is a huge technological advance. You can fit thousands of hi def tracks on your computer, and juggle between what you're going for. You can slice small segments out a song and mix it together with ten other songs... the ability to prep and tweak stuff is almost endless, but also, you can walk around with a gigantic library that you'd need an army of roadies to carry for you if you were working with vinyl. This empowers the end result of what a DJ is doing: playing music for people. With a huge library at your disposal, you can read the crowd and build your set accordingly on the fly. Also, it's worth saying that just because you're using a computer, you're not necessarily just "hitting play in Traktor." That's not entirely fair.

    Does the computer approach allow people to completely skip a lot of actually difficult shit that DJs should know how to do? Yes... but chances are a DJ who learned and studied their craft might still prefer the computer approach.

    To me, the bashing of laptop DJs feels like the response to Dylan when he first plugged in an electric guitar. It also makes me think about modern art... do you need to be a classically trained painter to pull off something like what Jackson Pollack did? No... but knowledge, honing your craft, practice, study, inspiration, all of these things help the output... and at the end of the day, it will show. You can only fake your way through it so far.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 08-15-2012 at 04:36 AM.

  25. #595
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    Everything related to Year Zero, in the shape of fan fiction, fan art, TV-series speculations or ARG leftover obsessions is shit.

  26. #596
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    There has been fuck-all awesome music in the last eighteen months.

  27. #597
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    I'm going to get so much hate for this but I really don't understand the hype or appeal of 'industrial' Godfathers, Throbbing Gristle. Meh to me.

  28. #598
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    Is it a controversial opinion to state that, based on Centipede Hz, Jesus Christ, Animal Collective is fucking awful. To me it sounds like the musical equivalent of George Lucas - we've got computers, so let's have everything move all the time!

  29. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Is it a controversial opinion to state that, based on Centipede Hz, Jesus Christ, Animal Collective is fucking awful. To me it sounds like the musical equivalent of George Lucas - we've got computers, so let's have everything move all the time!
    I definitely don't understand the love for them, and I agree with you on Centipede Hz for the most part... they do have some really interesting moments though. I say this from the perspective of somebody who has been mostly frustrated (and annoyed) as I listen to practically everything they've put out, but here and there is something that sounds like what I was hoping for. Nothing has blown me away, but every now and again, I find myself liking a track.

    I'm usually called the naysayer regarding Animal Collective, but this song is pretty fucking cool



    though I'd have to say that blows away anything on Centipede Hz
    Last edited by Jinsai; 08-29-2012 at 06:14 AM.

  30. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Is it a controversial opinion to state that, based on Centipede Hz, Jesus Christ, Animal Collective is fucking awful. To me it sounds like the musical equivalent of George Lucas - we've got computers, so let's have everything move all the time!
    Controversial maybe, but it sure isn't making my hair stand on end. As a rule, I'm really not a fan of clattering, busy, meandering indie, whether it comes by its noisiness via computers (Centipede) or by live instruments (t00n*y4rdzz). Music like that reminds me of the bedroom tracks I used to produce with Acid and FruityLoops back when I was fifteen. My favourite trick was to insert a bunch of loud bangs or some ghostly wailing to cleverly disguise my total inability to write a melody.

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