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Thread: Controversial Music Opinions...

  1. #5191
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    @Jinsai I think it’s this one (although Lou was participating):

    Last edited by allegro; 04-19-2021 at 10:19 PM.

  2. #5192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Well, Lou Reed was a weird guy. He thought it was a good idea to make a 2 hour long concept album w/ Metallica based on some weird shit that nobody really cares about, and all the songs suck, and Lou Reed is doing spoken word things like "I smell your fart in the wind" and then you've James Hetfield doing the WORST Hetfield thing where he's growling "I AM THE TABLE" as if he gives a fuck about whatever that bullshit is supposed to mean, and the whole thing is just insane.

    And I love Lou Reed, and I'll defend Metal Machine Music all day, but that Lulu thing was horrible. And not just because of anyone's pre-conceived biases about Lou Reed or Metallica (and how much they suck), it just was not good.

    Sometimes Lou Reed struck it out of the park and wrote a masterpiece like Berlin, and then some days he made shitty albums with Metallica and thought that cover version Duran Duran did of Perfect Day was "the greatest" in some way, but I firmly disagree, and I suspect he was probably trolling the world there, but we can't 'call upon the author to explain' further at this point.
    I liked LuLu, whereas I think Metal Machine Music is unlistenable. I can't get through 30 seconds of it. I seldom think something is so bad it's unlistenable, but if any album is, it's Metal Machine Music.

  3. #5193
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    are you into any noise music? I don’t mean noisy or heavy but noise, like Merzbow or Aube or crazier COIL stuff? For me that sort of music is like heavy meditation. I silence my mind and endure it and after ten or fifteen minutes, shorter if you’re on head phones, it sounds intense but peaceful, like you’re next to a giant waterfall. I feel like MMM helped revolutionize that genre, and I dig it

    even if Reed said it was a joke

  4. #5194
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    Reed later said it was not a joke, that he really enjoyed it.

  5. #5195
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    I don't think they like it.

  6. #5196
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    Of all of Lou Reed's albums I enjoy "New York" the most. It feels like a perfect time capsule of that era in that city.

  7. #5197
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    Controversial opinion, but Junior Dad is one of the best things Lou ever wrote.

  8. #5198
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Eric Carmen had lawyers. Iím skeptical as to the implied naÔvetť. But, I donít have the energy or the interest to litigate the subject further.
    I'm not sure there's much value either way in arguing the issue. Maybe Carmen knew more than he let on, or maybe the label were hoping no one would notice. Unless someone has said something to point definitively in either direction, there's not much to talk about. Dumber mistakes have been made before.

    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Yeah, I donít have any use for Spotify or Apple streaming.
    I love Spotify. I think a lot of their recommendations are great, I've found a ton of artists I wouldn't have otherwise: gone to shows and bought records from bands I found on Spotify. I use it as a kind of discovery tool, where once they recommend an album that I like, I'll typically buy it to support said artist. But I don't think most people are utilizing it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Lars Ulrich was NOT right. He was just as wrong as everyone in the music industry. He refused to adjust to an inevitable conclusion, and in so doing, helped drive the ship right into the fucking iceberg.

    SO NOW, Spotify rules the roost, and it's bullshit, but I use it. Because it's more convenient than torrenting shit and maybe getting sued at this point. Thanks Lars.
    So, I'll play the devil's advocate and ask: what exactly was the inevitable conclusion? I don't believe anything is inevitable, and certainly not the direction the music industry has taken.

  9. #5199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzkokehead View Post
    So, I'll play the devil's advocate and ask: what exactly was the inevitable conclusion? I don't believe anything is inevitable, and certainly not the direction the music industry has taken.
    Basically that the whole thing was a racket, and eventually technology (and the internet) would make it no longer a sustainable business model to charge people 17 dollars for a CD and expect it to keep going like that. Instead, the RIAA tried suing college kids (and forcing them to drop out of school to pay legal fees), and installing rootkits on CDs that put DRM on your computer. They really thought that was gonna win that war, by making music uncool.

    All they had to do was get together with the artists and stop fucking them (and the fans) over... but they refused. They put encryption on Mp3s you bought from iTunes originally, not understanding that this just made the thing you were selling less desirable than stealing it.

    I've worked in this field, and I promise you, five or so years ago, all these industry assholes were freaking out about the inevitable conclusion, and it was like they were all FINALLY sorta getting it, but still trying to figure out how to profit from the whole thing... instead of realizing that they could have actually formed an alliance with the artists that they've been flagrantly abusing since before they started freaking out about people copying music onto cassette tapes, and now, everyone's pretty much screwed. But hey, at least it's easy to listen to music now and find new stuff.

    But yes, people like you and me who buy the music we actually like, we're probably from a certain age demographic that got into music before any of this. Ultimately, there won't be people like us anymore, not really. That's the final inevitable conclusion. The silver lining is stuff like Bandcamp.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 04-21-2021 at 10:06 AM.

  10. #5200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Basically that the whole thing was a racket, and eventually technology (and the internet) would make it no longer a sustainable business model to charge people 17 dollars for a CD and expect it to keep going like that. Instead, the RIAA tried suing college kids (and forcing them to drop out of school to pay legal fees), and installing rootkits on CDs that put DRM on your computer. They really thought that was gonna win that war, by making music uncool.

    All they had to do was get together with the artists and stop fucking them (and the fans) over... but they refused. They put encryption on Mp3s you bought from iTunes originally, not understanding that this just made the thing you were selling less desirable than stealing it.

    I've worked in this field, and I promise you, five or so years ago, all these industry assholes were freaking out about the inevitable conclusion, and it was like they were all FINALLY sorta getting it, but still trying to figure out how to profit from the whole thing... instead of realizing that they could have actually formed an alliance with the artists that they've been flagrantly abusing since before they started freaking out about people copying music onto cassette tapes, and now, everyone's pretty much screwed. But hey, at least it's easy to listen to music now and find new stuff.

    But yes, people like you and me who buy the music we actually like, we're probably from a certain age demographic that got into music before any of this. Ultimately, there won't be people like us anymore, not really. That's the final inevitable conclusion. The silver lining is stuff like Bandcamp.
    I appreciate the thoughtful response (no sarcasm intended - I really do appreciate it).

    I agree, the labels really had no idea what they were doing in the early 2000's. And I'm surprised they didn't realize it sooner. Arrogance, I guess - it was certainly obvious to a younger me in the early 2000s that I could have as much music as I wanted, were I canny enough. It's only within the past few years that I've stopped to consider about the impact that may have upon the artist.

  11. #5201
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    Is it weird that I think Sea Change is one of the best albums Beck's ever done and yet Morning Phase barely rates a 3/5 for me?

  12. #5202
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    Question for everyone here: is there any artist/band that was really hyped up for a few years that has since more or less faded into obscurity (or, more accurately, not necessarily obscurity but at least away from the all-seeing eye of the music press) that you're glad to not have to hear about anymore?

    I mean, obviously I have my own thoughts on this, but I'd genuinely like to hear what other people have to say first.

  13. #5203
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    Is it weird that I think Sea Change is one of the best albums Beck's ever done and yet Morning Phase barely rates a 3/5 for me?
    I think the critical consensus was that Sea Change was the best thing, but really, that's because most people didn't realize that Mutations was. I actually talked to Beck about that. It was a fun chat. He's a really really nice person. Like, scary nice. I told him I saw his show and thought it was great, and he responded with "wow! That's wonderful, let's talk about what you liked the most!!"

    That show for the Mutations tour was REALLY really good...

  14. #5204
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    That sounds like a great story. Mutations is a strong 2nd for me because I found it after. I need to listen to it more. When I'm in a melancholy mood I go for Sea Change more often than not.

    And since we're in this thread: I liked Colors and Hyperspace.



    He does really good pop work.

    Man I miss movie theaters with their booming sound system.

  15. #5205
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    Is it weird that I think Sea Change is one of the best albums Beck's ever done and yet Morning Phase barely rates a 3/5 for me?
    Oddly, i like "Morning Phase" better than "Sea Change", yes heresy!

  16. #5206
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    The only song by Beck that I like is E-Pro

  17. #5207
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    One Foot in The Grave will always be the best thing Beck ever does......Mutations is right up there. Sea Change and Morning Phase are fine but not even close to OFITG and Mutations

    Shame of it is in 1995 he apparently recorded another album to be a sequel to OFITG and then shelved it

  18. #5208
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    Limp Bizkit is a better band in every single way than Metallica.

  19. #5209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    One Foot in The Grave will always be the best thing Beck ever does......Mutations is right up there. Sea Change and Morning Phase are fine but not even close to OFITG and Mutations

    Shame of it is in 1995 he apparently recorded another album to be a sequel to OFITG and then shelved it
    A deluxe edition was released on April 14, 2009, featuring 16 additional tracks, with 12 previously unreleased.
    that's a lot of unreleased tracks for a deluxe version of an album that apparently has a sequel though.

  20. #5210
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    Limp Bizkit is a better band in every single way than Metallica.
    I still like Limp Bizkit, but i can't agree on this

  21. #5211
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    I still like Limp Bizkit, but i can't agree on this
    I will die on this hill. Metallica has zero redeeming value in any capacity.

  22. #5212
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    Beck got super boring to me after Sea Change. Guero was basically just a sad re-hash of Odelay and it's been all downhill from there..

    But holy fuck did that dude release an incredible run of music from like 1992-2002. That warped psychedelic folk rock he was doing on Golden Feelings, Mellow Gold, Mutations, OFITG and Stereopathetic was brilliantly entertaining, and that's not even broaching the subject of the mighty Odelay, which only sounds more ahead of its time as the years go by..

    Maybe him marrying that scientologist around the time of Guero cooked his brain, I don't know. Hist first ten or so years of recorded output doesn't have a fault to its name though..

  23. #5213
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    Not only that but the dude has enough B sides (released and unreleased) from the 1992-1998 era to cover 10 more albums. In a way he probably shot his wad by writing so many songs during that stretch that eventually he was going to burn out. I thought Guero was mediocre when it dropped in 05....Until I heard the albums that came after it. Now I think its a masterpiece compared to drek like Colors lmao

  24. #5214
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    I will die on this hill. Metallica has zero redeeming value in any capacity.
    Not sure why you say it, but this statement applies for 'Tallica post St. Anger

  25. #5215
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post
    Not sure why you say it, but this statement applies for 'Tallica post St. Anger
    I dunno, I'm pretty much on the same page as Tony here. Metallica is a shitty band with a good guitarist. All of their lyrics are garbage, their song structure is repetitive and boring, when they tried to branch out they turned into this lame corporate pop band that was in no way more interesting, and then they tied themselves to the pushback against technology going where it obviously was going to go.

    I think I hate Metallica more than any other band on this planet actually, even if Master of Puppets and Kill em All are fun. It almost makes it worse that I like those albums.

  26. #5216
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    Yes. I have never understood why Metallica are SO hugely popular. Back in the day I had The Black Album, like pretty much everyone, but yeah.. I think I got bored of it pretty quickly.
    Give me Persistence of Time any day, or Angel Dust, which was also huge around the same time.
    I won't say they're a bad band as such - I recognise their influence on the genre, and their place in the (relative) mainstream means they're a good starting place for anyone getting into metal, but ultimately they're just a bit average.
    Maybe it's just a thing where I'm from, but I seem to come across a lot of people who really really love Metallica and dismiss anything else as being 'gay' or whatever. Bunch of jerks, to be frank, and this doesn't help my view of the band...

  27. #5217
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipRock View Post
    Yes. I have never understood why Metallica are SO hugely popular. Back in the day I had The Black Album, like pretty much everyone, but yeah.. I think I got bored of it pretty quickly.
    Give me Persistence of Time any day, or Angel Dust, which was also huge around the same time.
    I won't say they're a bad band as such - I recognise their influence on the genre, and their place in the (relative) mainstream means they're a good starting place for anyone getting into metal, but ultimately they're just a bit average.
    Maybe it's just a thing where I'm from, but I seem to come across a lot of people who really really love Metallica and dismiss anything else as being 'gay' or whatever. Bunch of jerks, to be frank, and this doesn't help my view of the band...
    I do agree with some of your points, Metallica isn't even the best of the "Big 4", but i do think they are a great starting point for any metalhead and i will always defend their body of work until Reload.
    They are popular in the way that many mainstream bands are, Faith No More will always be "bigger" than Metallica in my book, yet i understand why they aren't as popular, but i can't hate them, they recorded some great albums a paved the way for a lot of bands.

  28. #5218
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipRock View Post
    Yes. I have never understood why Metallica are SO hugely popular. Back in the day I had The Black Album, like pretty much everyone, but yeah.. I think I got bored of it pretty quickly.
    Give me Persistence of Time any day, or Angel Dust, which was also huge around the same time.
    I won't say they're a bad band as such - I recognise their influence on the genre, and their place in the (relative) mainstream means they're a good starting place for anyone getting into metal, but ultimately they're just a bit average.
    Maybe it's just a thing where I'm from, but I seem to come across a lot of people who really really love Metallica and dismiss anything else as being 'gay' or whatever. Bunch of jerks, to be frank, and this doesn't help my view of the band...
    I have this exactly same thought about Rammstein tbh. Yeah they give hell of a concerts when it comes to stage structure and performance in general but that's it. Their music to me is quite boring beside a few songs.

  29. #5219
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipRock View Post
    Yes. I have never understood why Metallica are SO hugely popular. Back in the day I had The Black Album, like pretty much everyone, but yeah.. I think I got bored of it pretty quickly.
    Give me Persistence of Time...
    Anthrax is the best of the "big four," IMHO. I like Metallica too, but I'm with you with on Persistence of Time, great album.

    Every bit as good as Master of Puppets.

  30. #5220
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    Slayer > Megadeth > Anthrax >>> Metallica

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