Controversial Music Opinions...

[HWB]

Well, I disagree with almost everything you've said—in some places vehemently. Though artists coining their own labels is an interesting phenomenon I hadn't considered before—I wonder if Throbbing Gristle intended to name a genre or eventually felt boxed in by it. Regardless, if you're having conversations about genre in service of the art itself and they aren't overwhelmed by bickering that amounts to little more than gatekeeping and moving things from artificial box to artificial box, then who am I to say you're doing it wrong.

I do not wish to keep any artist in the box, the opposite actually.

I just think that it helps with music discussion for me and helps to actually to see how an artist has progressed.

When I notice that Nine Inch Nails is less focused on Industrial Rock in certain of their works, I don't freak out about it, I simply take a note out of that and see what influences Trent takes from this time, I read up interviews to see what Trent was going for and what influences were this time around to make such a change in sound. I discuss genres and influences because I find them interesting, not because I wish for an artist to stay in a box, I would really hate that, as a NIN fan I feel a lot of frustration when people complain about the change of sound, I understand having a prefered sound from an artist, but most of these people do not even know where this "sound" comes from and what it actually consists of.

I also find it especially frustrating since most of them do not know how interesting the change of sound actually is, to see something like "Year Zero" be reffered to as a "Pop" record or something felt really frustrating to me and shows a lack of attention to the music some people give and simply dismiss anything just because it is not what they are used to.

(in general the way people just use Pop is frustrating, people dismiss a lot of music as Pop, just because it happens to have a melody but dismiss everything else.)

"Everything" is a good example, simply dismissed as a Pop song, when it is a clear love-letter to The Cure and its chorus is certainly very loud and rather aggressive, but a lot of people just don't seem to focus on music enough to make a note out of that.

A lot of people who throw genres around without knowing anythinga about them are indeed frustrating, but maybe if they knew little bit more we could have had a better conversation, some people totally miss the obvious Pop-song-writting that is withing The Donward Spiral or The Fragile and assume that NIN has always been some kind of purely Experimental Rock act or something, I've even seen people call "The Donward Spiral" "free-form"...which..no..each song has a clear structure.

[HWB]

I would also like to add, that even if we didn't have a name for these genres, artists would still get backlash for changing their sound, the sound having a name has nothing to do with that, people just over-act to change and they want artists to meet to their own expectations and rarely want the artist to somehow surprise them.

[Tom]

'Heresy' is a really good pop song.

[fillow]

Is it suddely a /r/LetsTalkMusic here? (I don't mind, please continue)

[Archive_Reports]

I think genre labels are interesting in that people tend to have different definitions of what fits into a particular box.

[MrLobster]

Oh look, there's new Bootie merch to display how I feel... genrefluid...

[Krazy]

Sub-genres, particularly in the metal community, are beyond fucking stupid.

Re: Motörhead, their weren’t a whole lot of bands playing that kind of style of music in the late 70s, hence their appeal and influence. I dig them.

[WorzelG]

I really need to listen to the Deftones. I read so many good things about them from people I respect the opinion of and I’ve never listened to anything they’ve done. I’m so lazy musically, just listening to same old all the time

[allegate]

Same. I subscribed to a newsletter for heavier music than I usually listen to because I realized that I actually like it more than what I usually listen to now and I've found a lot of great stuff. Also not great, but you get good with the bad with anything.


Also I have all of the Deftones stuff downloaded it just looks so daunting when there's so much stuff.

[Jinsai]

It’s worthwhile to acknowledge genres and subgenres. It can help you discover music that’s “more like this.” With electronic music, the genre sub genre boxes got silly. I’m still convinced that “cold wave” is 100% not a real thing. “Alternative” is the worst way to describe a whole genre of music. 99% of modern vocal music that isn’t hip hop could be called pop. A lot of newer hip hop sounds like pop. Adult/Contemporary was THE “leading genre” most of the time when I was working at a mainstream record store... which was called “Wherehouse,” which has got to be THE shittiest name for a music chain, but at the industry peak it was the most popular music chain in America.

now that we don’t have actual stores with genre sections, it feels less useful to correctly categorize stuff by genre, and that’s probably a good thing. If there were still indie record stores and zines and whatever, maybe I’d change my mind.

[onthewall2983]

This is from last year but I’m loving Stuart Braithwaite of Mogwai pointing out that Britpop led to Brexit! All the xenophobia of that yanks go home bullshit, urgh

I'm finally convinced by this picture that Brit-Pop was actually England's equivalent to hair metal/glam rock than grunge.

[onthewall2983]

Forgot that. I shouldn't post so early in the morning.

[MrLobster]

I'd argue that Hair Metal grew out of this genre, too. Just look at Robert Plant from Led Zeppelin with his glorious locks and bare chest.

I'd say they more looked like hippies... but of course, that did evolve as the they did and 70s moving into a very comfortable glam... as opposed to the glam outfits that were decidedly uncomfortable by the looks of them.

[Space Suicide]

I'd argue that Hair Metal grew out of this genre, too. Just look at Robert Plant from Led Zeppelin with his glorious locks and bare chest.

Nothing to argue about. That's where it came from. It's well known that a majority of the early 80's hair metal glam bands were into the likes of the New York Dolls, Johnny Thunders and various forms of gender bending rock and punk bands. I'd personally argue that Mötley Crüe started it all then with their success at the Sunset Strip everyone ripped off their look and style. I'll ride that horse to its grave defending it.

[Jinsai]

...and then there was also T Rex...

[Jinsai]

I posted them earlier today, unless you're raising a point about something else I'm not getting.

I wasn't responding to you, and I guess I missed your earlier post, so... what the fuck ever

[Krazy]

I'd personally argue that Mötley Crüe started it all then with their success at the Sunset Strip everyone ripped off their look and style. I'll ride that horse to its grave defending it.

Yep. And I’d say you can trace it back even closer to Theatre of Pain. Prior to that they were wearing a lot of black and stuff that made them look more like KISS or something scary. Then they went full on with brighter colors and more Aqua Net... along with the gargantuan ballad that is Home Sweet Home. Lots of copycats after that, when the hard rock/metal genre was already exploding.

[GulDukat]

I always thought that a majority of hair bands used Van Halen and KISS as a template, and some of the other bands mentioned here were influential as well.

[WorzelG]

I’ve been reading a lot of complaints about the latest Smashing Pumpkins songs. (I actually quite like Cyr!). But I read a while ago an interview with Courtney Love where she suggested Billy would be more jealous of Trent winning an Oscar than anything she was doing, which leads me to ask Why has Billy Corgan not scored a film? I believe Eddie Vedder has scored a film, plus Chris Cornell sang a Bond theme who I would have thought were his main ‘rivals’. I don’t think of Trent as a rival as NIN are just not from that scene. He even mentioned in an interview that in another life he would be scoring films. Why not? I’m sure there must be some director out there with a love of the Pumpkins enough to take him on?

[Tom]

I’ve been reading a lot of complaints about the latest Smashing Pumpkins songs. (I actually quite like Cyr!). But I read a while ago an interview with Courtney Love where she suggested Billy would be more jealous of Trent winning an Oscar than anything she was doing, which leads me to ask Why has Billy Corgan not scored a film? I believe Eddie Vedder has scored a film, plus Chris Cornell sang a Bond theme who I would have thought were his main ‘rivals’. I don’t think of Trent as a rival as NIN are just not from that scene. He even mentioned in an interview that in another life he would be scoring films. Why not? I’m sure there must be some director out there with a love of the Pumpkins enough to take him on?

He has done one score, for Stigmata (1999). I can't remember if it was any good, though.

[WorzelG]

He has done one score, for Stigmata (1999). I can't remember if it was any good, though.

thanks for that, I actually did more research and he also did a film in 2003 called Spun. Hmm, but he would get more kudos if he did one now as those films didn’t exactly set the world on fire.

[armogi]

thanks for that, I actually did more research and he also did a film in 2003 called Spun. Hmm, but he would get more kudos if he did one now as those films didn’t exactly set the world on fire.

He did some of of the ransom score in 96 too.

[eversonpoe]

thanks for that, I actually did more research and he also did a film in 2003 called Spun. Hmm, but he would get more kudos if he did one now as those films didn’t exactly set the world on fire.

spun was directed by regular collaborator Jonas Akerlund and is a really rough and upsetting watch. billy's music for it is fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[WorzelG]

spun was directed by regular collaborator Jonas Akerlund and is a really rough and upsetting watch. billy's music for it is fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Knowing he’s done a couple that have actually worked makes me more confused that he hasn’t gone this route and paired with a director like TRAR/Fincher or Johnny Greenwood

[onthewall2983]

He also provided music for Ron Howard's Ransom

[GulDukat]

Dave Mathews doesn't totally suck. I'm hardly a mega-fan, but I find his music to be pleasantly bland.

[eversonpoe]

Dave Mathews doesn't totally suck. I'm hardly a mega-fan, but I find his music to be pleasantly bland.

i was huge into DMB for several years as a youngster.

he's a better guitar player than he gets credit for, everyone in the dave matthews band is/was a truly skilled musician, and they have a few songs that are straight up brilliant musically. he doesn't have a bad voice, but most of his lyrics are a bit iffy.

the biggest problem is the culture and the fanbase, which is straight up GARBAGE.

examples of GOOD songs:







the first two songs are gorgeous, and the third song is a rare example of them going heavy and dark (which works surprisingly well).

part of me still really likes some of their music but i never listen to them anymore.

[allegate]

The "pleasantly bland" description would occupy everything from Stand Up to Away from the World.

Crash and Before These Crowded Streets have several songs on each that has the band performing and playing at an obscene level. That said, "Crash into Me" was so over-played back in 96/97 that it took a long time for me to not have to skip it.

however: their insistence on live tracks being the same as "bonus" songs on their album releases chaps me.

[Jon]

the first two songs are gorgeous, and the third song is a rare example of them going heavy and dark (which works surprisingly well).

part of me still really likes some of their music but i never listen to them anymore.

Live At Luther College by Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds is a great album of older stuff.

[henryeatscereal]

Yes, the Dave Matthews band is actually ok (even though they don't rock...)