Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 269

Thread: The Trayvon Martin killing

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    An unfortunate place somewhere in the Southwest
    Posts
    1,937
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)

    The Trayvon Martin killing

    Well, it seems like the discussion about the Trayvon Martin case is getting pretty big, so I figured a new thread for it might be warranted.

    Actually, there is a bit of breaking news on the case. A new witness has come forward and spoken to CNN about what they saw that night.

    While he or she didn't see enough to know for sure exactly what happened, as CNN pointed out in the article, his/her account of the event differs from Zimmerman's in what I would say is a pretty huge way: Zimmerman says that the fight took place on the concrete, thus, he says, Martin was bashing his head into said concrete. But the witness says the fight happened on the grass, not the concrete. Which is huge.
    Last edited by theruiner; 03-30-2012 at 12:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,336
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    We'll never know the other side of the story because Trayvon is dead. This big man with a gun has a daddy who's quite powerful and has been able to get out of any trouble he's gotten into, including stalking and shooting a unarmed teen. This case has been a sad reminder that race is still an issue in 2012 and being a black man automatically makes you suspicious. Anyone denying that race wasn't a factor in this case or thinks that this is a right/left issue is delusional. Zimmerman is on tape saying "fucking coons", an undeniable racial slur. Then minutes later this kid is dead. Trayvon wasn't doing anything but minding his own business and had every right to be where he was. If the races were reversed, we'd never even hear about this case. The shooter would be in jail awaiting trial.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    This evidence about the fight that may have taken place worries me, because I think it obscures the issue.

    See, while I suppose it's possible that Trayvon immediately flew into a suburbanite-hating rage when he spotted Zimmerman outside his car, I think it's pretty far fetched to imply that Trayvon would have started or instigated any kind of altercation. The kid was carrying sweet tea and skittles. He just wanted to go home. That 911 call from Zimmerman implies pretty strongly that Zimmerman intended to detain this person he spotted.

    So perhaps eyewitness testimony will reveal that Zimmerman was getting pummeled, but that won't change the fact that Trayvon was forced into a fistfight by a loon who had no right to detain anyone. Trayvon was an innocent man trying to get home and would have had every right to defend his right to do so with violence. Really, that's not a terribly unlikely chain of events: Z stops T -> T has none of it -> Z doubles down and tries to detain T with force > T, being 6'3" and a teenager, eventually gains the upper hand in the fight for his freedom -> Z has hurt feelings -> Z shoots T, killing him.

    So all this talk about whether or not Zimmerman had the right to or felt he needed to defend himself with violence frustrates me. If you believe in the right to defend yourself . . . how could you fail to recognize that is EXACTLY what Trayvon would have been doing? And that's what, for me, makes this about race: the underlying assumption that Trayvon had some kind of duty to passively submit to whatever Zimmerman wanted him to do.

    Think of it this way: What if Trayvon had demanded an explanation for Zimmerman's presence and tried to detain him? 'Who are you and what are you doing in this neighborhood? I walk through here all the time and you make me nervous . . . lie down on the ground with your hands behind your head.' Would Zimmerman have been under any obligation to comply? No. The reverse is true.
    Last edited by Deus Ex Machina; 03-30-2012 at 10:39 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Hat, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    352
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    The footage ABC news acquired the night Zimmerman was taken in for questioning, but released, is pretty damning also. For someone who was in a "life-or-death" situation, he seems pretty calm and collected in that video, even though it's only approximately 90 seconds.

    Also, how about Geraldo's comments that "His hoodie was as responsible for his death"? That's one of the stupidest comments I have ever heard from the Faux Noise machine. Stephen Colbert's comment that if the hoodie makes you appear to be a criminal, then glasses and a suit makes Geraldo look like a journalist was a great counter. But what do we expect from them really?

    And this Joe Oliver..."If it wasn't Zimmerman shooting Martin, it would be Martin shooting Zimmerman." Was Trayvon going to shoot him with Skittles? Sounds like a guy who just wants attention to me.

    Either way, Zimmerman was told that he did not need to follow Martin, and he continued to, which puts him in the wrong. I'm just glad that any neighborhood watches around here don't have guns at their sides.

    Either way you stand on this issue though, there is a 17 year old who was killed, and his killer is still free.

    Hopefully this opens strong debate on the "Stand Your Ground Law", from reading it online it seems pretty vague.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    888
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    I can't believe this has been drawn out so goddamn much. I heard the FBI is going to be looking into this whole thing...I hope they finally get around to arresting the guy (and firing the inept cops? one only dreams.)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    An unfortunate place somewhere in the Southwest
    Posts
    1,937
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Another thing about that surveillance footage that is pretty damning: Zimmerman claims that Treyvon was bashing his head into the concrete (which, let's not forget, a witness said was completely false because the fight happened on the grass, not on concrete), but in the footage, you can clearly see the back of Zimmerman's head without so much as a hint of a scratch, a cut, a bruise, anything.

    Now, it's surveillance footage, so it's not exactly the best and clearest picture I've ever seen, but there doesn't appear to be anything. Nothing.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    2,778
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by poinoup View Post
    Hopefully this opens strong debate on the "Stand Your Ground Law", from reading it online it seems pretty vague.
    I damn hope so: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1379968.html

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    9,690
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    The NAACP is up in my state giving a giant stink about this. I haven't learned or read up much on the case of this but I always find it appalling when they get involved solely for the fact of the person's ethnicity. They don't do it for the fact it is unlawful or morally wrong with evidence and such as it is for the fact just because of the person's ethnicity involved. If it's related to an african american and can be used as a role against 'racism' they'll utilize it.
    Last edited by Space Suicide; 03-30-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Withdrawn . . . too snarky. But seriously, you don't know the details but are going to go ahead and assume that the NAACP's involvement is baseless? Dammit. Don't do that. Learn what's going on, then decide (at the very least).
    Last edited by Deus Ex Machina; 03-30-2012 at 01:33 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    9,690
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Ex Machina View Post
    Withdrawn . . . too snarky. But seriously, you don't know the details but are going to go ahead and assume that the NAACP's involvement is baseless? Dammit. Don't do that. Learn what's going on, then decide (at the very least).
    Nah go ahead. I'm not trying to start a flame war or argument it's just my opinion on their status of such things that they get involved in. I'm not saying their entire involvement is baseless but I notice how they quickly jump into action and then turn it on it's head and try to pass it off as being racially motivated. That's all.


    This is what sparked my initial post and I couldn't agree more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/fo...rayvon-martin/
    Last edited by Space Suicide; 03-30-2012 at 03:22 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Suicide View Post
    Nah go ahead. I'm not trying to start a flame war or argument it's just my opinion on their status of such things that they get involved in. I'm not saying their entire involvement is baseless but I notice how they quickly jump into action and then turn it on it's head and try to pass it off as being racially motivated. That's all.
    I'm not trying to start an argument either, but, I've 'noticed' how I can't think of a single instance where I felt the NAACP misrepresented something as a racially motivated crime. So, go ahead: Where are they wrong?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    It's not like the NAACP is completely making up the racial motivation. The shooter arguably called Martin "a fucking coon" on the 911 call.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Did not see this bit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Suicide View Post
    This is what sparked my initial post and I couldn't agree more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/fo...rayvon-martin/

    But Bryant, who explores the topic of black-on-black crime in his new film “Runaway Slave,” said people like Jackson and Sharpton are being misleading to suggest there is an epidemic of “white men killing black young men.”

    Well, I don't see where Jackson and Sharpton have done that. The people speaking out against this crime are doing so because it may well be that Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin with impunity. That's why people are pissed. There doesn't have to be an epidemic for that to be a problem.

    “The epidemic is truly black on black crime,” Bryant said. “The greatest danger to the lives of young black men are young black men.”

    I fail to see how anyone's silence regarding the Trayvon Martin case will assist with the issue of black on black crime. There's no need to choose between the two.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,721
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    They need to fix the Stand Your Ground Law rather than get rid of it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    11,522
    Mentioned
    810 Post(s)
    My boss, a lawyer for 36 years, says that it seems that the US Supreme Court decisions don't advocate willy-nilly support of this law. There's an old legal joke about if you shoot a criminal trying to break into your house, drag him INTO YOUR HOUSE or else you're in deep shit.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...at-do-we-know/

    The BIGGEST problem with this case, to me, is how Martin somehow "aroused suspicion" of Zimmerman by doing absolutely nothing. It's kinda like what is known as (when being pulled over by a cop) a "DWB" or "Driving While Black."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...ag=mncol;let;8

    Zimmerman can claim self-defense.

    BUT SO CAN MARTIN.

    If he wasn't dead.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-30-2012 at 05:49 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    9,690
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Again, I'm not stating that this isn't entirely non-racially motivated. Some portions of it are but I think there's more to the bigger picture then just pinpointing: "Hate Crime, Black vs White. Forever. White Men evil. This was done because he was black not because the offense was insane or morally misguided. I'd just like to see them help lots of people (in their community) without mentioned race as a factor in any way shape or form. Not every crime involving a black person is white vs black mentality.

    They do questionable things to flare up racial tension that isn't needed some times often than not. Anyone recall Jackson running for pres in the 80's and calling New York City 'Hymietown'? Anyone recall Sharpton's comments on Mormons in 2007? Meh nevermind

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    11,522
    Mentioned
    810 Post(s)
    You're consistently avoiding the main point of how a grand jury is going to look at this incident.

    FUCK the big names or Jackson or anybody else, and just look at the FACTS. As much as it may pain you to admit that race may be a factor in this case, it's more than fucking obvious to the most of rest the country (including my mother, in her 70s, who is so upset by this that she wants to join one of those bus rallies) or my former boss (a Jew, also in his 70s, who is even more upset than my mother) that if a white kid had been walking through the neighborhood at night, this would not have happened.

    You're starting to really piss me off, and I'm white. No, actually, you're starting to sound kind of scary to me. Like you may be a threat. As i perceive it. And that's all I need. A perception of threat.

    And i have a gun.

    Really, the ONLY way to finally start healing the racism THAT STILL EXISTS in this country is for this shit to really get people motivated.

    You know, kinda like Emmett Till.

    Rev. Jackson has been known as an opportunist since before Dr. King was murdered, even black people know this. Rev. Sharpton, not quite as bad but the Girl X case didn't help him. BUT QUIT MAKING THESE TWO DUDES THE FUCKING DALAI LLAMAS OF THE GOD DAMNED BLACK COMMUNITY. Or the consensus of the U.S. Or as arbiters of fact. Or having ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS CASE. It's bullshit. A grand jury isn't gonna say, "But what does Rev. Jackson say about this?"
    Last edited by allegro; 03-31-2012 at 09:30 AM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    9,690
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    A threat? Enlighten me? I'm a peaceful dude, I wouldn't hurt or physically touch anyone for any reason unless my safety or life depended on it. I've had some amazing african-american friends as well, one of which I talk to occasionally and had been friends with my entire middle school enrollment. I'm not a racist guy at all.

    I'll just drop it. I was stating an opinion of mine from the past few years of observation and reading about the NAACP in my high school years. I like the NAACP and I find it empowering that they had the courage and morale to initiate JFK to sign the civil rights laws to make everyone's lives better as a whole. I'm not spouting racist ideology; apologies if my comments appeared that way. And food for thought, there's more than just black and white racism in this country.

    I'm not replying anymore to this thread.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    11,522
    Mentioned
    810 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Suicide View Post
    A threat? Enlighten me? I'm a peaceful dude, I wouldn't hurt or physically touch anyone for any reason unless my safety or life depended on it.
    You missed the point. But maybe now you see my point.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    9,690
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    You missed the point. But maybe now you see my point.
    No, I got the point but I assumed you were going elsewhere with it.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    11,522
    Mentioned
    810 Post(s)
    Nope. Just the point that misguided perceptions shouldn't kill people. But they do.

    Glad that you see that the NAACP's primary job is to protect people and not to stir up shit unnecessarily. They're not the fucking National Enquirer or TMZ, for Christ sake.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    9,690
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Nope. Just the point that misguided perceptions shouldn't kill people. But they do.

    Glad that you see that the NAACP's primary job is to protect people and not to stir up shit unnecessarily. They're not the fucking National Enquirer or TMZ, for Christ sake.
    I'm well aware they aren't.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    11,522
    Mentioned
    810 Post(s)
    As much as I'd love to embrace your "there's more to this" than what it is, like there is some kind of deeper meaning to embrace, I think this country is still far too undeveloped and simple and backwards, segregation-wise, for us to be that rose-lensed. I'd love it if we were. Truly. But, we aren't. I live in Chicago, which is SO fucking segregated, it's scary. Second biggest urban city in the country, and it's hugely segregated. Still. Today. In 2012. I became aware of the Black and Missing Foundation via Whoopi Goldberg, and was shocked. http://newsone.com/nation/find-our-m...s-on-the-view/ We have a LONG way to go.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    280
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    How's everyone feel about Jackson and Sharpton exploited the situation like they usually do? What about the call for race riots and the bounty on Zimmerman by those harmless Black Panther guys that the DOJ is ignoring?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    2,778
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    As George Takei points out, the self-defense and perception of threat plea here is beside the point: http://showthemwhat.tumblr.com/post/...serves-justice
    Zimmerman pursued and was a threat to Martin, first.
    Arrest Zimmerman, and let a jury decide. Stand your ground law be damned.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    11,522
    Mentioned
    810 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    Zimmerman pursued and was a threat to Martin, first.
    Amen, brother.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    You keep emphasizing the response of a few black media figures without even considering the facets of the case that make them call it possible racism. So far, we have some evidence pointing to at least marginal individual racism on the part of the shooter, who may have called the boy a racial slur, combined with Martin's race being one of the primary reasons Zimmerman pursued him. One of the aspects that makes this case so problematic for the shooter is all of the audio that paints a damning picture of his side of the event. Had he not called 911 and said some of the things he did, this case would likely never have received the attention it has. Another issue is the perception of institutional racism on the part of a few cops and prosecutors who declined to even arrest Zimmerman afterwards, apparently partly based on this fucked up stand-your-ground law. There are a lot of complex issues going on, but as is usually the case, I wouldn’t expect conservatives to want to admit or consider that.
    Last edited by chris; 03-30-2012 at 07:47 PM.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    280
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Eyewitnesses are saying there was a fight, he had injuries, the police chose not to arrest him. I keep saying there's more to this story than meets the eye, Martin for instance, has a history of suspensions, drug use, theft, etc. so he's no angel. I trust the judgement of the police in the case, and also agree with the "fucked up stand-your-ground" law.

    The emphasis of race isn't just on Trayvon, but also the way news outlets have gone out of their way to paint Zimmerman as white, and not Hispanic. And here I thought Obama was going to bring about post-racial America... There was a murder of a white man at Miss State by three black men, Obama hasn't commented on it, no one is outraged, it just vanished in the news stream. Had it been a black man killed killed by 3 white guys liberals at large would find a way to place racism as a cause. Yet again, liberals live in a land of double standards, just as they get upset about Fluke they don't give a shit about the sexism aimed at Wisconsin's Lt. Governor and her children, but as is usually the case, I wouldn't expect liberals to be anything but hypocrites anyway.

    Besides, I'm commenting on the extreme comments of these black figures, like the bounty, the call for race riots, etc. not that they are black figures. So far no one seems to have a problem with them by the lack of comments. Shocking of course.

    Ironically, that moron Bobby Rush who wore the hoodie on the floor of the House had a shooting in his district Thursday that killed one and injured five, the two shooters were wearing hoodies when they committed their crime.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    An unfortunate place somewhere in the Southwest
    Posts
    1,937
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    "Drug use"? He smoked pot, for Christ's sake. Can we stop pretending that that means ANY GOD DAMN THING AT ALL EVER? Especially here.


    Quote Originally Posted by 50 Volt Phantom View Post
    Ironically, that moron Bobby Rush who wore the hoodie on the floor of the House had a shooting in his district Thursday that killed one and injured five, the two shooters were wearing hoodies when they committed their crime.
    I'm convinced you're a troll now. Anyone with even half a brain can see that hoodies had nothing to do with it. At all.
    Last edited by theruiner; 03-30-2012 at 08:17 PM.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    280
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    It's still considered a drug, and it got him suspended. I am for legalization, but that doesn't change the fact that he broke the rules, and was suspended 3 times, as well as found with women's jewelry and tools used for theft on him at the same time.

    Are you sure hoodies had nothing to do with it? I thought that that was in fact what caught Zimmerman's eye first? Regardless, Bobby Rush trying to make a statement that black men in hoodies shouldn't be immediately suspicious just makes what happened in his district ironic, I would think anyone with half a brain could see that.

Posting Permissions