The Trayvon Martin killing

[Jinsai]

Hypothesis, evidential support. Ching.

The consensus on this board is the media coverage was a reaction to the lack of arrests made in the Trayvon case. Which implies if the case of the Caucasian couple remained unresolved - it would have been given more significant media coverage. Is that inference correct?

You seem to misunderstand the race issue here, because the incident you brought up was so completely unrelated, but yes, if some people were decapitated in a horrific way, and the police said "well, when we investigated, there was this guy walking around in the street with a bloody hatchet, but we let him go because we have a law that prohibits us from investigating people who carry hatchets." Then yes, people would be screaming at the police force for completely fucking up, and people would also be saying that there shouldn't be a stupid law that exonerates anyone carrying a hatchet.

However, in order to extend the racial aspect to it, we'd have to be living in a country where white people are a minority... but since we've already entered the Twilight Zone here, can we just get back to actually talking about what happened, instead of speculating on how people might have reacted to a completely different case which could have ended differently than it did?

[Tiz]

I think you're pettifogging the issue more than anything. What's the media's hot topic - Stand Your Ground or white-on-black crime? If you do not see my point about the media's bias - consider we have a white Hispanic being charged with murder while the black/white communities are having a common massacre. See: the Tulsa shootings, random beatings of the Floridian elderly. Speaking of Twilight Zones...it amazes me, how even in 2012, people can be subject to denial when it comes to even the most obvious of divisive tactics purported by the U.S. news media. It isn't intellectual. It isn't political. It isn't judicial. It's simple. It's racial.

[Jinsai]

I'm not dodging the issue by pointing out how your comparison was ill suited to the situation. But if we want to talk about how the outrage is purely based in race, how about this... find me an example where a black person shot and killed an unarmed person in Florida, but because of the "stand your ground" law, nothing happened to him and he walked free.

[theruiner]

Here's an interesting historical parallel.

[Elke]

Hypothesis, evidential support. Ching.

Problem is that your hypothesis could only be tested by two complete hypotheticals, and so no amount of articles on the lack of media coverage in cases that you think are similar (I already said I didn't think they were) is going to do anything to substantiate your claim that your hypothesis is more correct than anyone elses.

To be specific, you claim that the media coverage on this case is greater than it would have been if the racial roles had been reversed (namely, if a black neighbourhood patrol guy had shot a hoodie-wearing guy of mixed descent for being threatened with a bag of skittles and been let off the hook because of Stand Your Ground). But there is no such case, and until there is we can't be sure. Furthermore, if such a case were to occur within the next couple of years, chances are it would get media coverage because of its resemblace to this case - especially if the results of the justice process this time around are deemed unfavorable by a large portion of viewers.
I also don't know of any case that resembles this hypothetical that preceeded the Martin shooting, so... There you go. No ching.

Aside from that, it would also require a case where a similar event occured (namely a mixed-race neighbourhood watchman shoots a black hoodie-wearing kid threatening him with a bag of skittles) BUT police immediately arrested the shooter, and see if a similar or different response was given by media. Again, if such an event occurred within the next couple of years, it would automatically attract more attention because of its resemblance to this case, again depending on the outcome of this case.

So that's two hypotheticals required to test your hypothesis.

Also: this is just a couple of people on a NIN-message board trading ideas; it's not actually a study, so really hypotheses are not actually required. I'd say.

---


To make this a little more on-topic, I've been thinking about how we've had a couple of cop-shoots-Arab youth cases in recent years that have always sparked race riots. In all these cases racial profiling was present, and the defense that the cops shot in percieved self defense. In most these cases an internal investigation lifted blame off the cops. It's not exactly the same thing, but the percieved immunity granted to a police offer works in a fashion similar to SYG, except that there's always an internal investigation for a police officer.
I guess it adds to the sheer incomprehensiveness of the law itself, for me. If even a police officer who is trained to recognize threats and not fire his weapon at will has to justify shooting it, then how can someone think it's a good idea to let citizens fire unchecked?

[Deus Ex Machina]

Hypothesis, evidential support. Ching.

The consensus on this board is the media coverage was a reaction to the lack of arrests made in the Trayvon case. Which implies if the case of the Caucasian couple remained unresolved - it would have been given more significant media coverage. Is that inference correct?

Yes.

I might also say that the community response was a reaction to the lack of arrest, and the media coverage was partially a result of the community response and the failure to arrest.

[Iran_Ed]

Just thought I'd add this. So I'm watching a 2007 episode of The Boondocks titled Thank You for Not Snitching.
The episode includes the local neighbor watch arming themselves to deal with a perceived black threat. I'm in awe
at how it completely hits the nail on the head, and is absolutely funny and sobering all at once.

[theruiner]

New photo shows the wounds to George Zimmerman's head; allegedly taken after just after the altercation.

I put emphasis on allegedly only because we really don't know that those were taken right afterward. I'm not saying it's not legit, but just reminding that we don't know for sure.

[allegro]

The key element isn't the injury, it's who started the altercation. If Zimmerman's injuries are proof of Martin defending himself, Zimmerman still isn't in the clear as far as chasing Martin down. And apologizing to Martin's parents at the bond hearing, saying he (Zimmerman) thought that Martin was a lot older ("a few years younger" than Zimmerman) seems to say he's truly sorry that he shot and killed a kid but, sorry, shit happened and now somebody is dead, and you started it, dude, and I hope you do what the Prosecution probably WANTS you to do, and cop a plea of involuntary manslaughter, which comes with a much smaller sentence than Murder 2. If there's photographic evidence of your injuries minutes after the scene, me thinks there's also photographic evidence of you starting this shit. Plus there's that incriminating phone call to the police, where they told you to stand down. Cop the plea, dude.

[Highly Psychological]

Slighty off topic...im not sure how relevant it was to the Trayvon Martin Killing......but oh god, i really wish i had not read that Knoxville Murder story someone posted earlier....that has to be the most horrific news story i have read about in a very, very long time. Traumatic to read. One of those fuck humanity, there is no god stories.... On Wikipedia they go into extreme detail about the woman's sexual torture...is that really necessary?
Obviously not being a U.S resident i had never heard of it before reading it today, 5 years later, its so bad im surprised it did not make international headlines let alone national headlines in the States. Just amazed ultra disturbing so-bad-you cant-believe news like that is not bigger. If that happened here...jesus.... Must have sent fucking shockwaves through the Knoxville area.

[allegro]

Unfortunately, we have a million crime stories that make that one seem like a trip to Disney World.

[mfte]

I remember a quote from someone in the Bush administrations saying that you should never let a crisis go unused.

This is the case yet again by the current media and admin. The coverage this is receiving is ridiculous but unsuprising.

It is only a matter of time before the media changes the narrative and starts painting Zimmerman in a sympathetic light. From then on its likely that this will turn into an issue of gun control.

[50 Volt Phantom]

Ya, that quote can be attributed to the Obama admin.

No one wants to talk about the guy beat into critical condition by a bunch of black adults "for Trayvon?" Or the twitter movement to lynch Zimmerman and even the threats against the judge?

[littlemonkey613]

I remember a quote from someone in the Bush administrations saying that you should never let a crisis go unused.

This is the case yet again by the current media and admin. The coverage this is receiving is ridiculous but unsuprising.

It is only a matter of time before the media changes the narrative and starts painting Zimmerman in a sympathetic light. From then on its likely that this will turn into an issue of gun control.

Gun control is never brought up in this country. I wish.

[Space Suicide]

Ya, that quote can be attributed to the Obama admin.

No one wants to talk about the guy beat into critical condition by a bunch of black adults "for Trayvon?" Or the twitter movement to lynch Zimmerman and even the threats against the judge?

That can be said about the case with anything. People that are so against violence and destruction, yet they go around and do it themselves as 'justification.' Reminds me of that one abortionist, Dr. Gunn from Florida who was murdered by a pro-lifer. Oh irony, you are a cruel, cold hearted bitch.

[danebraddy]

No one wants to talk about the guy beat into critical condition by a bunch of black adults "for Trayvon?" Or the twitter movement to lynch Zimmerman and even the threats against the judge?

Speaking of related things - maybe someone in the US can assist - did Spike Lee break any laws with his little stunt? It doesn't take a genius to figure out what he was hoping to help facilitate by his tweet - or because he cut the people a cheque it's done and dusted?

[miss k bee]

Slighty off topic...im not sure how relevant it was to the Trayvon Martin Killing......but oh god, i really wish i had not read that Knoxville Murder story someone posted earlier....that has to be the most horrific news story i have read about in a very, very long time. Traumatic to read. One of those fuck humanity, there is no god stories.... On Wikipedia they go into extreme detail about the woman's sexual torture...is that really necessary?
Obviously not being a U.S resident i had never heard of it before reading it today, 5 years later, its so bad im surprised it did not make international headlines let alone national headlines in the States. Just amazed ultra disturbing so-bad-you cant-believe news like that is not bigger. If that happened here...jesus.... Must have sent fucking shockwaves through the Knoxville area.

Shit I just googled that ..... beyond words nasty evil shit

[Tiz]

I'm not dodging the issue by pointing out how your comparison was ill suited to the situation. But if we want to talk about how the outrage is purely based in race, how about this... find me an example where a black person shot and killed an unarmed person in Florida, but because of the "stand your ground" law, nothing happened to him and he walked free.

Yes. You are. Elke echoes similar (erroneous) sentiment.

(--Snip--)

Correct me if I'm wrong -- but you are stating I cannot prove my hypothesis because 'I do not have cases with identical context where only the racial components are reversed'. Ie. Having a murder with a 'white Trayvon', and a 'black Hispanic Zimmerman'. And because I do not have these two nigh identical examples to compare/contrast -- my hypothesis is utterly disproved.

How many human rights laws would have passed if we followed the brilliant teachings of you, and Jinsai? It's like you two take the concepts of pettifog, and semantics. Get them to propagate. And out comes this brilliantly executed shit sandwich only a Spinal Tap critic could enjoy.

Why, in your opinion, do you believe Knoxville: SVU was squashed so briskly? Was it (exclusively) due to the murders being resolved? I do not believe that. Mind you, I do not have an identical case with identical context with inverse racial roles. So what's even the point, eh?

[Elke]

No, you painted yourself into a corner by saying (and I quote): Hypothesis. Evidential support. Ching. and then providing only one piece of only roughly related evidential support. For your hypothesis to be proven irrefutably correct, you'd need a wealth of data that have a lot more crucial aspects in common with the case at hand; or a single case that is the absolute opposite of this one with an absolute opposite effect.
You have neither.

[allegro]

Speaking of related things - maybe someone in the US can assist - did Spike Lee break any laws with his little stunt? It doesn't take a genius to figure out what he was hoping to help facilitate by his tweet - or because he cut the people a cheque it's done and dusted?

He admitted, publicly, that it was a stupid thing to do. But, this country hasn't gotten over the Rodney King incident from 20 years ago, and I think a lot of the initial reactions were fueled by the residuals of Rodney King. Sure, some initial reactions were rather knee-jerk, but it's all pretty highly emotional, and emotional, of course, isn't rational.

[Tiz]

No, you painted yourself into a corner by saying (and I quote): Hypothesis. Evidential support. Ching. and then providing only one piece of only roughly related evidential support. For your hypothesis to be proven irrefutably correct, you'd need a wealth of data that have a lot more crucial aspects in common with the case at hand; or a single case that is the absolute opposite of this one with an absolute opposite effect.
You have neither.

Also, I hear the shoelaces on either case's victims were different colors. Clearly, there is no comparison.

The media's bias towards sensationalism (incidentally) creates a powerful ideologue. A common truth since the advent of the printing press.

[Elke]

And there's another straw man argument, as well as a non sequitur. It's not semantics, it's logic. If your arguments fail to be logical, they fail. Period. Or, in your own words: ching.
And that's enough derailing this thread for me.

[theruiner]

This is truly disgusting.

[Fixer808]

This is truly disgusting.

Disgusting, and depressingly unsurprising.

[Tiz]

And there's another straw man argument, as well as a non sequitur. It's not semantics, it's logic. If your arguments fail to be logical, they fail. Period. Or, in your own words: ching.
And that's enough derailing this thread for me.

You need permission to ching. Stop using it in a D-grade, sarcastic context to make an adage about fondling scarecrows. I understand your point. Without exact congruency, nothing is worth comparing. I also understand why your point is wrong. If you cannot comprehend the simplicity in that - I will not decry some sort of self-endorsed intellectual superiority. But I will decry the ruiner's post about Trayvon Martin hoodie shooting targets. Our media thrives on sensationalism, and unfortunately - that same medium has warped American citizens on what this case is about. That very sensationalism is so utterly powerful, it has lead to the following.

It evolved from an isolated, incidental abuse of "Stand Your Ground" between a racist, white-Hispanic, and a black teenager - to an all-out, countrywide white/black race war with random shootings, beatings, and unfortunately: murder. You can call "logic" all you wish. Explain to me, in your words, how ANY of this is logical.

Edit: One could argue the motive of this case, and media hangover is illogical. Yet you want to use logic to decipher it. You may as well measure the quality of The Avengers with the Calvin cycle.

[Conan The Barbarian]

This is truly disgusting.

I really dont want to live here anymore.

[Elke]

Oh, I don't know. It's still a step up from county fairs in honour of a couple of hangings. In the end, we long to see the bad guys punished, or - if there are no bad guys available - anyone. Those urges have to be subliminated into something. Targets seems like a relatively harmless thing, compared to the instincts that drive us to relish in the pain and death of others.

[Jinsai]

You need permission to ching.

Whose permission did you get? I don't want to dogpile, since Elke and I already agree on everything (as you previously pointed out), but your approach to this whole thing is a little bizarre.

[Elke]

Elke and I already agree on everything

Truer words are yet to be spoken.

[Tiz]

Whose permission did you get? I don't want to dogpile, since Elke and I already agree on everything (as you previously pointed out), but your approach to this whole thing is a little bizarre.

You find my opinion bizarre. But find nothing extraordinary about the media's coverage on the Trayvon case. Interesting.