Deftones

[wight rabbit]

Maybe it's just the way that he wants to sound in Deftones now? BRIEF EXCHANGE was released in 2018 and he screams his ass off in some points of the song. And the screams to me in that song sound like Koi No Yokan screams.



We'll see next week I guess.

Oh, man! I always seem to forget about this one even though I love it. Yeah, he's definitely going pretty aggressive on that one.

As for Gore... I don't hate the album, but it's not one I ever go back and listen to very much and I own it on vinyl. I think it's mostly because of Stef's minimal presence. It just was a little underwhelming after Koi No Yokan. I will say that I'm probably in the minority of loving Phantom Bride. That song hit me hard the first time I heard it.

[Jord]

Giving Gore a good relisten now after reading the thread all day.

There are some good tracks in here, I think it's just the change after that sound of DE/KNY. If Nick Raskulinecz had been on the desk for this record I'd have it up there in the top 3 with those two records. Prayers/Triangles is incredible, Acid Hologram & Doomed User are also strong as fuck. Hearts/Wires is a great track as well once it gets going. I've always loved the title track and Rubicon as well especially.

[Dryalex12]

And honestly, I'm kinda glad that so many people don't like it. It makes it mean that much more to me. A lot of people swear by WP and S/T, but those albums don't do anywhere near as much for me as KNY, ATF, SNW or even DE. When they start branching out and going against the grain, it makes for interesting stuff that has no peers, i.e. SNW, KNY and, yes, the much-maligned Gore..

Funn because S/T is my fave album but i really don't like White pony very much either. BUt yeah, Production is a big deal for me, not just because i'm an audiophile but also because how my hearing is. Due to my autism, my hearing is very sensitive, a lot more than most people. Sadly, by my early 20's, i have already got tinnitus. Even stuff at lower volume gets my ears fatigued. I will say, the stuff off Ohms does sound better sonic wise but i can still hear distortion caused by the clipping and compression, a lot more than on Gore

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

White Pony is overrated as fuck. This idea that its some groundbreaking anti nu metal album when half the album is just Adrenaline style nu metal bangers (Korea, Elite, lest we forget Chino's rap metal gloryhole 'Back To School'). S/T will always be the best fucking thing they ever do. Its raw, its heavy, its weird and its a colossal "Fuck you" to every poser who hopped board during White Pony and to every nu metal band that was still clinging to life around that time. S/T was when they officially broke away from the dreaded "nu metal" sound once and for all.

Reading prettybrokensprals love letter to Gore reminds me.....I have a friend who is a big Depeche Mode fan and he used to always swear by how brilliant 'Exciter' was and we would always mock him or roll our eyes. After the next album PTA came out and was a brilliant return to form, my friend finally admitted 'Exciter' was a shitty album....This was after 4 years of him going on about how brilliant 'Exciter' was and how he didn't understand the hate it got.....Then when a true Depeche album came out like PTA, it just put a spotlight on what shit Exciter was. I think when Ohms drops, prettybrokenspiral will realize Gore is just Chino's self indulgent drek and a Chino Moreno solo album with the rest of the band playing the instruments......Gore is the 'Exciter' and '4:13 Dream' or for Killing Joke fans, its the 'Outside The Gates' of the Deftones discography. Even the band hates it (especially Chino of all people)

[henryeatscereal]

Not criticizing or anything, but i find it funny that this thread always comes back to the: "Gore was shit", argument.

I liked "Gore" and i'm pumped for the new album, that's all i'll say...

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

or that snoozefest that was the Team Sleep album..

Dude, the bands name literally has the word "SLEEP" in it .

Ahh, more Gore talk. I think it was you that said above that Gore was SNW's little sister? I actually think the complete opposite. My problem with SNW is that some songs sound so driven and focused, while others feel they were left behind a bit with the creative side. Look at Beware, nothing on SNW comes close to the quality that track brings in.

I think when Ohms drops, prettybrokenspiral will realize Gore is just Chino's self indulgent drek and a Chino Moreno solo album with the rest of the band playing the instruments

Uhh what. I was with you all the way with White Pony and S/T until I read this lol. While I do think Ohms already is miles ahead in production, the last two tracks have been just "Deftones" tracks with barely any risks taken. I really hope the rest of the album proves me wrong, but the tracks on Gore stand out so much from the rest of their discography and like I said a few pages back, I will defend this album until the end of my days. (Or something like that)

[Wretchedest]

Don't albums leak anymore

[Shadaloo]

Gore is the Zeitgeist of Deftones albums. Just as I can dig a few tracks on ZG, I dig a few on Gore. But they're both produced like shit and could sound leagues better, and as a result the end work is unsatisfying to my ears.

It's okay for a band to have a bad album, and it's okay for people to like said bad album and not consider it bad.

[Shadaloo]

Also today I realized it was time to fix the fact I only own CDs from this band, got Around The Fur and White Pony LPs coming to me now

[Prettybrokenspiral]

White Pony is overrated as fuck. This idea that its some groundbreaking anti nu metal album when half the album is just Adrenaline style nu metal bangers (Korea, Elite, lest we forget Chino's rap metal gloryhole 'Back To School'). S/T will always be the best fucking thing they ever do. Its raw, its heavy, its weird and its a colossal "Fuck you" to every poser who hopped board during White Pony and to every nu metal band that was still clinging to life around that time. S/T was when they officially broke away from the dreaded "nu metal" sound once and for all.

Reading prettybrokensprals love letter to Gore reminds me.....I have a friend who is a big Depeche Mode fan and he used to always swear by how brilliant 'Exciter' was and we would always mock him or roll our eyes. After the next album PTA came out and was a brilliant return to form, my friend finally admitted 'Exciter' was a shitty album....This was after 4 years of him going on about how brilliant 'Exciter' was and how he didn't understand the hate it got.....Then when a true Depeche album came out like PTA, it just put a spotlight on what shit Exciter was. I think when Ohms drops, prettybrokenspiral will realize Gore is just Chino's self indulgent drek and a Chino Moreno solo album with the rest of the band playing the instruments......Gore is the 'Exciter' and '4:13 Dream' or for Killing Joke fans, its the 'Outside The Gates' of the Deftones discography. Even the band hates it (especially Chino of all people)

Oh please. You also think that Team Sleep album is one of Chino's best things ever when in actuality it peaks at Princeton Review and then nosedives straight into Snooze City. Death By Plane indeed. It rivals TR/AR scores for a soundtrack that'll put your lights out fast..

I personally think S/T is their most overrated album, at least within their fanbase. While it does have a surplas of certifiable bangers on it (Hexagram, WGTB, Battle Axe, Bloody Cape, Pins and Needles), it has zero flow to it and sounds completely all over the place. One minute they are playing weird (albeit cool) spaghetti-western ballads (Death Blow) and then jumping back on their Adrenaline fetish with WGTB. Pins and Needles and GMB are both decent but sound like the band got bored halfway through and just moved on to whatever other track needed finishing at the time. Minerva is Deftones at their shoegaze best, but that chorus is and forever will be cringe as fuck. As for Lucky You..the less said about that one the better. Even Pink Cellphone gets it done better..

WP was definitely a huge leap forward for them after ATF. That's where they broke away from the nu-metal pack, even if they curiously put up minimal resistance to going back and recording Back In School. Knife Prty, Feitceria, Change and Korea are about as far from nu-metal in the late-90s/early-2000s as it got..

[Wretchedest]

Team Sleep is awesome you guys are fucking crazy lol

Minerva sucks ass though

[Space Suicide]

Knife Prty is the best song the band has recorded to me on any album. Personal opinion here.

I think an underrated contender for their best album is Saturday Night Wrist. I remember when it came one and how a lot of it was panned outside Hole In The Earth, Mein and Cherry Waves. There's some odd stuff on there but I find it pretty consistent overall.

As for Gore, I find most of the songs great on it. Prayers/Triangles, Acid Hologram, Doomed User, Geometric Headdress, Hearts/Wires and Phantom Bride are all pretty awesome. Wait, did I name just about the entire album? Haha. The production could be better and it always felt like a flat, compressed album sonically but the tracks are excellent.

Genesis is a good song but a standard sounding track. I am still curious to hear Eros one day.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Aside from one of Chino's kids having a falling out with him and stealing the hard drive and leaking it, I don't think we will ever hear Eros

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Oh please. You also think that Team Sleep album is one of Chino's best things ever when in actuality it peaks at Princeton Review and then nosedives straight into Snooze City. Death By Plane indeed. It rivals TR/AR scores for a soundtrack that'll put your lights out fast..

I personally think S/T is their most overrated album, at least within their fanbase. While it does have a surplas of certifiable bangers on it (Hexagram, WGTB, Battle Axe, Bloody Cape, Pins and Needles), it has zero flow to it and sounds completely all over the place. One minute they are playing weird (albeit cool) spaghetti-western ballads (Death Blow) and then jumping back on their Adrenaline fetish with WGTB. Pins and Needles and GMB are both decent but sound like the band got bored halfway through and just moved on to whatever other track needed finishing at the time. Minerva is Deftones at their shoegaze best, but that chorus is and forever will be cringe as fuck. As for Lucky You..the less said about that one the better. Even Pink Cellphone gets it done better..

WP was definitely a huge leap forward for them after ATF. That's where they broke away from the nu-metal pack, even if they curiously put up minimal resistance to going back and recording Back In School. Knife Prty, Feitceria, Change and Korea are about as far from nu-metal in the late-90s/early-2000s as it got..

Hah! Wow, I could not disagree with you more, but to each their own. S/T bleeds atmosphere and has a perfect blend of heavy, soft and experimental (Which works) throughout the entire album. I will not accept any Lucky You slander! It's perfect.

For White Pony... It is painted with Nu-Metal influence in my ears and I sometimes feel embarrassed listening to it. They showed growth with their sound, but I feel S/T is the more mature, more cohesive bigger brother of WP.

[wight rabbit]

Also today I realized it was time to fix the fact I only own CDs from this band, got Around The Fur and White Pony LPs coming to me now

You didn't want to wait for the White Pony re-issue?!

[Shadaloo]

You didn't want to wait for the White Pony re-issue?!

Completely missed that was a thing that was happening...but whatever. It's not like buying multiple copies of White Pony isn't a thing everyone does whether they want to or not.

[wight rabbit]

True. I have two copies of TDS because I bought the Back to Black anniversary edition long before the Definitive Edition was released.

[thefragile_jake]

Team Sleep is fucking great. Where the hell is the vinyl pressing? I'm shocked they didn't do anything for the 15th anniversary.

[Wretchedest]

Gore was the last time I purchased a CD, and probably the last time I purchased any physical media with the exception of a nice looking vinyl box from an obscure doom metal band.

Unless deviations came out since then... I got that toi

[neorev]

You didn't want to wait for the White Pony re-issue?!

I worry the White Pony reissue with be the godawful remastered version they put out digitally that is brickwalled to shit. I honestly cannot listen to those. They're absolutely grating on the ears. Now if it's a completely new master from the ground up, then I am in. But if any remastered reissues come from these digital remasters they put out a couple of years ago, I am staying far away from them.

Just look at how fucking blown out Elite is. Top is original master, bottom is remaster.



And Minerva, top is original master, bottom is remaster...



All the edges are gone. Just a fucking flat wall. Detailed original turned into grating migraine inducing turd.

No joke, I was listening to the White Pony remaster and I began feeling uncomfortable during it. The whole time, just grating to the ears. Halfway through, I got a splitting headache from it. I had to turn it off. Put on the original master at the point I left off and headache went away. If the day comes when the original masters are removed from all stores and all we got are these shit remasters, well that will be a truly sad day and pray you have a CD or vinyl with the original master. Hands down, one of the worst remasterings ever done... ever. I will never go back to them again. When I listen to Deftones, I go to my originals.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Team Sleep is fucking great. Where the hell is the vinyl pressing? I'm shocked they didn't do anything for the 15th anniversary.

I wouldn't hold your breath; Chino hates that album as much as he hates S/T and maybe Gore now, too. I remember they played some one-off show in a studio barn up near Woodstock, NY awhile back and half the songs they performed weren't even on the album, lmao. That's some passive aggressive shit right there, when you have one album of material, play a one-off and only like five songs off it get played..

When I last saw Deftones in 2006, they played like four or five cuts off Gore and maybe only like one from S/T..

[Space Suicide]

When I last saw Deftones in 2006, they played like four or five cuts off Gore and maybe only like one from S/T..

Give me your time machine.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

lmao doh! I'm not even gonna change that because I totally saw them in 2006 as well as 2016..

[Jord]

I wouldn't hold your breath; Chino hates that album as much as he hates S/T and maybe Gore now, too. I remember they played some one-off show in a studio barn up near Woodstock, NY awhile back and half the songs they performed weren't even on the album, lmao. That's some passive aggressive shit right there, when you have one album of material, play a one-off and only like five songs off it get played..

When I last saw Deftones in 2006, they played like four or five cuts off Gore and maybe only like one from S/T..

Wow, didn’t know that about Team Sleep, that record opened up a lot of things for me as a younger listener - kinda put me onto a mix of more electronic influenced music that still guides me today.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Wow, didn’t know that about Team Sleep, that record opened up a lot of things for me as a younger listener - kinda put me onto a mix of more electronic influenced music that still guides me today.

Apparently, Chino has also soured on the Palms stuff, calling it "disappointing" in that recent interview that HelpmeiamsuretoloveGoreoneday posted a little while back. He tracked some heavier material with those guys and then shitcanned it to work on Ohms. There was that unbelievable stretch from 2010-2014 where we got two fantastic Deftones albums, a Palms album and a Crosses album, plus they were already working on the Gore stuff..

Then 4.5 years since Gore and nothing whatsoever, save for one admittedly brilliant Chino solo song. Dude is as mercurial towards his own work as the day is long. I fully expect that by the time they are able to tour again, the entire setlist will be ATF and DE songs with a couple Adrenaline and WP songs for an encore to appease all the Tony Hawk Pro Skater fans in attendance. Hardcore fans will be screaming for anything from SNW, S/T or KNY to complete indifference by the band right before they sleepwalk (NPI) into 7 Words for the 500,000th time..

[wight rabbit]

I worry the White Pony reissue with be the godawful remastered version they put out digitally that is brickwalled to shit. I honestly cannot listen to those. They're absolutely grating on the ears. Now if it's a completely new master from the ground up, then I am in. But if any remastered reissues come from these digital remasters they put out a couple of years ago, I am staying far away from them.

Just look at how fucking blown out Elite is. Top is original master, bottom is remaster.



And Minerva, top is original master, bottom is remaster...



All the edges are gone. Just a fucking flat wall. Detailed original turned into grating migraine inducing turd.

No joke, I was listening to the White Pony remaster and I began feeling uncomfortable during it. The whole time, just grating to the ears. Halfway through, I got a splitting headache from it. I had to turn it off. Put on the original master at the point I left off and headache went away. If the day comes when the original masters are removed from all stores and all we got are these shit remasters, well that will be a truly sad day and pray you have a CD or vinyl with the original master. Hands down, one of the worst remasterings ever done... ever. I will never go back to them again. When I listen to Deftones, I go to my originals.

Oh, wow! What are they doing?!

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

I wouldn't hold your breath; Chino hates that album as much as he hates S/T and maybe Gore now, too. I remember they played some one-off show in a studio barn up near Woodstock, NY awhile back and half the songs they performed weren't even on the album, lmao. That's some passive aggressive shit right there, when you have one album of material, play a one-off and only like five songs off it get played..

When I last saw Deftones in 2006, they played like four or five cuts off Gore and maybe only like one from S/T..

Where is this information coming from that he hates Team Sleep? While The Woodstock Sessions was just one show, they re-worked the songs off the album and actually made them sound better! I cannot imagine he would go through all that trouble and invite a small group of (Lucky) fans and some of the original members together if he hated it? Watching the videos, he seemed pretty locked into it and being able to hear unreleased tracks before anyone I'm sure fans were gushing; I wouldn't have minded one bit if they didn't play more from the album, I would have been happy enough that I got to see them live.

But, ffs you're right about their set lists...

They really need to shake things up in the future. I saw them in 2006 and 2012. Three years after S/T and they played 2 songs from it with them playing all the typical songs on that tour with SOAD.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

@Self.Destructive.Pattern I know he's made passive aggressive comments about Team Sleep in interviews past, but a lot of it is just reading between the lines: he left the SNW sessions to finish the TS album and tour behind it, and since that time they've done one fan-invite-patreon-style show and have released no new music. He never talks about it in interviews, and interviewers never ask about it, which tells me it's probably a forbidden subject before the interview starts..

Again, from 2011-2014, it seemed like Chino was popping up in a new side project every other month. Palms, Crosses, Sauldade or whatever it was called..but not once has there been any mention of new Team Sleep anything, outside of that 2014 reunion show that ultimately went nowhere (and apparently pissed a lot of fans off as opposed to what they were promised during the campaign or something)..

He's disavowed Deftones albums, he's disavowed Palms, he's made no mention of TS or Crosses in years..even looking at the song ratio chart you posted above, it isn't hard to tell where his interests lie..

That guy Vensanic or whatever he calls himself who runs the Shared Lungs fan site called them out once for playing the same old shit every night around the time of DE, and when the band played in Belgium or wherever he's from, they were trolling him from the stage all night while he watched and then ripped into Combat for the first time ever just so he'd stop whining. They have been adamant in their disdain for that guy ever since; a few of us were talking to Steph outside of the 2016 gig I saw and one guy asked him if they still kept tabs on "the Shared Lungs guy" and Steph called him a whining fuckin' pussy or something, lmao..

[AndItKeepsRepeating]

I have to disagree about Deftones not changing up their setlists...I've seen them about 8 times and it's been different enough everytime? I've feel like ive heard them play pretty much everything from Adrenaline up till Koi No Yokan. I haven't seen them since Gore so maybe it's different the last few year so I can't speak to that.

But I have to ask, why wouldn't Around the Fur, Adrenaline and White Pony be the three highest played albums? They're the three oldest albums so they've had more opportunity to be played and rack up those numbers?

The early albums having high total play counts is probably true for most bands with any longevity, with I'm sure some exceptions

Just as an example look at Radiohead's total album play count

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/albums/...d-bd6bd12.html

You have The Bends @ #1 and they don't regularly play alot of songs from that album anymore, haven't for probably 20 years and even when they do it's only a a few at most each setlist, and I bet sometimes none at all.

Ok Computer and Kid A and #2 and #3 respectively, both albums 20 years old or more and both albums that make perfect sense in the top 3 given how popular they were and how long ago they were released.

And even Pablo Honey is #4 and they haven't regularly played anything from it since the late 90s and only just in the last few tour cycles started playing Creep again

My points is even if Ohms turns out to be one of the best Deftones albums ever and the tracks from it are regularly played at Deftones shows from now until the end of time, they older albums from the 90s/early 00s are always going to have the benefit a 20 or more year head start when it comes to setlist stats

[wight rabbit]

Sauldade or whatever it was called..

Saudade* and it still exists. It's Chuck Doom's project. Chino was only ever a collaborator. Also: the song he's on with Chelsea Wolfe was released last year.