Deftones

[Graz]

Stef or Abe? Chino's wife said Stef was a Trumper last week on an IG post replying to some fan who asked her about it. I would say she's a reliable source. Abe was the one who I received a PM on fb about. It wasn't a nobody. It was someone who worked with the band and is good friends with Chino (and also told me not to spread it around because Chino hates political talk and the last thing he wants is everyone in the bands political beliefs to be public record)

I would rather talk about how Ohms is the best thing they have done since SNW

I don’t know what to make of Chino’s wife’s comments, and I have no idea what kind of relationship she has with Stef. I don’t think she has the right to speak on his behalf, so until Stef confirms or denies it, I’ll just leave it alone. Doesn’t really seem to fit his character, but whatever. As far as Abe is concerned, I guess I’ll just have to take your word for it. Anyway, yes, let’s talk about the music. Ohms has grown on me a bit, but I still feel like something is missing. It’s not a bad album by any means, just not near the top of my list. That may change over time, but their first 3 albums will likely always be my favorites.

[wight rabbit]

told me not to spread it around because Chino hates political talk and the last thing he wants is everyone in the bands political beliefs to be public record

And yet...

[kas23]

It shouldn’t even have to be confirmed or denied. We’ve fallen quite a ways as a society, where our political beliefs are now seen as insults or ways to label people. None of this should matter at all. If you must judge a person, do so based on their actions, not beliefs. And no, this wasn’t aimed at you. Just giving my $0.02

[Wretchedest]

The politics is an important subject to me, so it's not so easy to move on from in conversation right now, as I'm in kind of a coping stage.

I don't think politics is extricable from media and art. Everything is political up to and especially attempting to be apolitical. I'm actually not that surprised specifically because they've never taken a public political stance and never included politics I'm their music. I don't know how to properly articulate why I believe this but by and large "non political" people are conservative people who are unable to articulate political beliefs partly because they aren't especially well developed. The lack of exploration maybe a product of privilege or circumstance. So the Deftones, career musicians since their teens, probably a little undereducated, but also relatively wealthy... Welllll... And then I heard that opening line from genesis and it immediately rubbed me the wrong way. "Both sides" has an extremely specific connotation in american culture right now. When not used by our fascist countrymen, instead used by histrionic contrarians who ultimately lack compassion and education. When I heard that lyric I took it is as a red flag but chose to look past it without further evidence and due to my own bias. Obviously the above story is also lacking in evidence but equally lacking in a good reason to be made up down the grapevine. I do know Stef to be an avid golfer, living near a world famous golfer, I know someone who took a selfie with him as a caddie. Chino's wife would know. I believe that.

Interestingly Stef may be related to why I'm not gelling with Ohms so well. It seems like Stef has moved on from his meshuggah affinities, which really did a lot for me over the years. The rhythmic play in ohms is at a drastic reduction and the flavor of metal is kind of different. I spun ohms for a while trying to get into it and eventually tired of it. It's not awful. Everything on it is alright. But it's just alright. It's the only Deftones album that doesn't have a song that I *love.*

[Graz]

There are dedicated threads for political opinions. This is the Musical Revolution section of this forum. Some people come here to escape the bullshit of daily life and share opinions about good music. I am tired of politics, it’s simply exhausting and depressing. Maybe make a separate thread titled Bands with Controversial Political Opinions or something. In the end the music is all that matters to me, and unless said musician has committed some horrific crime, I’m not going to change that opinion.

[Wretchedest]

Sorry, this is an overlap, and it is significant and relevant. I absolutely do not care if you are too squeamish to handle it. These politicians have torn children from their families and tortured and killed people. It's important to know if the musicians I'm giving money too are supporting that, because it is a horrific crime. The choices we make in this regard matter. As long as we allow trump supporters to hold their views without consequences, they will continue to thrive and proliferate.

Deftones are very important to me, they are one of my favorite bands if not my absolute favorite band, so sorting this out and talking about it is important to me. If you want I can copy and paste various bushings and favorite lists ad nauseum to make you feel better.

[Dryalex12]

Interestingly Stef may be related to why I'm not gelling with Ohms so well. It seems like Stef has moved on from his meshuggah affinities, which really did a lot for me over the years. The rhythmic play in ohms is at a drastic reduction and the flavor of metal is kind of different. I spun ohms for a while trying to get into it and eventually tired of it. It's not awful. Everything on it is alright. But it's just alright. It's the only Deftones album that doesn't have a song that I *love.*

It's funny because i can't stand those type of Deftones songs. Stuff like "You've Seen the Butcher" just sound so boring, dull, repetitive, just the same two damn notes over and over again. I don't care if it changes time sigs multiple times, it still the same fucking damn notes. I cant stand the mindless chugging with no changes in the notes. I welcome songs like "Ohms" and "Error" with open arms.

[Wretchedest]

It's funny because i can't stand those type of Deftones songs. Stuff like "You've Seen the Butcher" just sound so boring, dull, repetitive, just the same two damn notes over and over again. I don't care if it changes time sigs multiple times, it still the same fucking damn notes. I cant stand the mindless chugging with no changes in the notes. I welcome songs like "Ohms" and "Error" with open arms.

I'm thinking more about stuff like "Doomed User," "Diamond Eyes," "Gore," "Hexagram," "When Girls Telephone Boys," and then in the less heavy side "Rapture" and "Good Squad" I don't see the rhythmic/time signature fun as mutually exclusive to melody or other components I actually would agree that "butcher" is boring.

[Wretchedest]

It's funny because i can't stand those type of Deftones songs. Stuff like "You've Seen the Butcher" just sound so boring, dull, repetitive, just the same two damn notes over and over again. I don't care if it changes time sigs multiple times, it still the same fucking damn notes. I cant stand the mindless chugging with no changes in the notes. I welcome songs like "Ohms" and "Error" with open arms.

I'm thinking more about stuff like "Doomed User," "Diamond Eyes," "Gore," "Hexagram," "When Girls Telephone Boys," and then in the less heavy side "Rapture" and "Good Squad" I don't see the rhythmic/time signature fun as mutually exclusive to melody or other components I actually would agree that "butcher" is boring.

I don't think you can make the case that the timely sections of Rapture, Mein, or Doomed User are just two notes, there's a lot of melody going on, changes in the voices of the guitars, Chino singing along with it, etc. In Diamond eyes, the weird time signature is in the chorus... I don't think that's a boring chorus.

[Dryalex12]

I'm thinking more about stuff like "Doomed User," "Diamond Eyes," "Gore," "Hexagram," "When Girls Telephone Boys," and then in the less heavy side "Rapture" and "Good Squad" I don't see the rhythmic/time signature fun as mutually exclusive to melody or other components I actually would agree that "butcher" is boring.

I don't think you can make the case that the timely sections of Rapture, Mein, or Doomed User are just two notes, there's a lot of melody going on, changes in the voices of the guitars, Chino singing along with it, etc. In Diamond eyes, the weird time signature is in the chorus... I don't think that's a boring chorus.

and you are right, and i do love all of those song you have listed

[Prettybrokenspiral]

While it’s nowhere near as embarrassing as CYR, it’s amazing to hear Chino’s solo track Brief Exchange from a few years ago and not hear Ohms as a major disservice to his creative potential. It’s like night and day; Brief Exchange absolutely smokes every song on Ohms as far as originality, composition and creativity is concerned. This might also explain why Gore is so much more original, because Chino was leading the charge..

Ohms is perfectly fine as a forest of dark, dank riffs to get lost in, but put it up against even a solitary track like Brief Exchange or Geometric Headdress and it really does sound like a safe album playing lip service to their never-happy fanbase..

[ton]

I actually think Ohms is one of their most experimental records but maybe I'm wrong. Gore was very experimental as well but sometimes fell short of the sophistication the band is usually capable of. They were indulging a lot of post-rock influences on that record and a lot of times, their musical influences themselves just did it better. I feel that Ohms was a good balance of focusing in on their strengths & expanding their approach to structure and instrumentation. Frank especially stepped up on Ohms and I appreciate the band for giving him that space.

I'm surprised you think that Brief Exchange was more original and creative than Ohms since I consider that song to be very vintage Deftones. I feel like it could've came from any point between Around the Fur and Self-Titled. It carries their early signature sound of a bass guitar-and-drums lead verse under a soft vocal, followed by a violent, loud chorus.

[Dryalex12]

Im getting really tired of this notion that in order to be good, you have to experiment. You have to change your sound. Fuck that. A good song is a good song. I judge it on the quality of the riffs, the vocal performance, the bands overall performance and lyrical substances although with deftones, the last part can be a sort of crap shoot. Deftones has every right to go back to a sound fan's love to hear. I don't know if you remember this but Chino said it himself, He wanted to go back to the riffs. If the only reason for you dislike of Ohms is because they didn't push their sound more then that's honestly kinda sad really. Besides, their are a lot of odd and weird moments on Ohms. Pompeij's ending, Error's intro, Radiant City, and The Spell of Mathematics for using that 9 string action as well as the title track for being one of the most riff centric songs that the band has ever wrote.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Brief Exchange has more originality than Ohms? That track is good, but it literally sounds like an Around the Fur/White Pony b-side. That's a wild opinion but I respect it.

The lyrics are probably my favorite aspect about Ohms. It really kind of tells a story that is a haunting and beautiful to me; I went into depth about them about a month back, but there is more substance here than just saying they played it safe. I'll take Mathematics, Pompeji, Ohms and even Headless over Brief any day.

Diamond Eyes imo is them playing it safe and holds one of their worst songs ever written... Rocket Skates. Sextape has turned into one of my favorite Deftones tracks as of recently.

[Wretchedest]

I wouldn't really call anything they've done experimental. Dare I say, adrenaline and like Linus are actually when they were making waves. They've explored and expanded their sound, but rarely with dramatic leaps *maybe* self titled qualifies.

Ohms feels more like a leap to me than Gore. The nature of the guitar work is a bit different. That said, it still hasn't really taken a hold of me every other Deftones album I've had on repeat for months after release, I put down ohms pretty quickly.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

^^^ If I had to call any of their material experimental inside of their own bubble, it would be White Pony, S/T moments of SNW and Ohms. I played Ohms a lot during the first two weeks so I had to give it somewhat of a break. Catch myself skipping Error and This Link Is Dead most of the time, but I've come to learn how Ceremony is pretty fantastic.

Edit: Swerve City has slowly been growing on me lately.

[Archive_Reports]

I think how a band experiments and that level of expectation is reliant on the artist. No one's really expecting much in that regard from, say, Korn. They found something they think works and that's kind of it. Bands held in high regard, like Deftones, carry the notion they're not going to put out the same album over and over. That could just be me, but I have a feeling it's not. A "bad" Deftones album is still much better than a lot of other band's best efforts.

[Dryalex12]

I think how a band experiments and that level of expectation is reliant on the artist. No one's really expecting much in that regard from, say, Korn. They found something they think works and that's kind of it. Bands held in high regard, like Deftones, carry the notion they're not going to put out the same album over and over. That could just be me, but I have a feeling it's not. A "bad" Deftones album is still much better than a lot of other band's best efforts.

I;d say there are a lot of bands with high regard that don't really change their sound that often such as Moterhead and AC/DC

Of course, not every time a band experiments results in good things. Judas Priest did it a couple times and it didn't turn out so good. Speaking of Korn, they tried to change their sounds quite a few times to.....mixed results. Slayer went down that groove/Nu metal side much to the ire of most metal fans.

Deftones doesn't need to experiment all the time. After 8 albums in, how far can you go? They deserve to have a break in sound evolution every now and then.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

SNW is experimental af. Listened to Ohms again the other night after taking a month off from it......The more I listen to it, the more I love it. I honestly think its their best effort since Diamond Eyes. The fact there are 0 ballads/slow songs on the record is huge. It shows they aren't trying to get another "Change" or 'Digital Bath" as opposed to a song like 'Sex Tape' which reeks of them trying to have a hit single. This is the first album since Adrenaline without a slow song.......I also put Gore on right after it after taking a year off from that record.....I kind of hate that record even more....When you listen to them back to back, the differences stand out even more. Gore is to the Deftones what Exciter is to Depeche Mode or dare I say, what Cyr is to the Pumpkins. Just this limp dick weak effort by a band that sounds like they are on their last legs. It has no edge or attitude. Ohms is to the Deftones what Playing The Angel is to Depeche Mode. This back to the basics, return to form, aggressive, kick in the ass album that eliminates the memory of the previous debacle

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

It has no edge or attitude.

Doomed User has more edge and attitude than the entirety of Ohms, and I love Ohms.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Doomed User has more edge and attitude than the entirety of Ohms, and I love Ohms.

This Link is Dead begs to differ

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

This Link is Dead begs to differ

I've really grown to appreciate that song more. It's like a mood thing with this band. Last week I popped on Ohms (While trying to give it a break) and I felt the first half was pretty weak. The night before, I popped it on and I said to myself "Are you nuts, the first half is pretty solid." Then the closing of Urantria came on pretty much sealed it for me. There are little thought out moments throughout the album that remind you how solid of an effort it really is.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Whoever said Adrenaline and Like Linus are the band’s only efforts that are pushing the envelope or whatever, you seriously need to be committed..

Ohms isn’t bad. Just very safe and catering to what the fans want, and probably not really what the band wants, per se. It still amazes me that after 4.5 years, what comprises Ohms is the best they could come up with. All they are doing is repeating themselves on this record. You can’t say that about Gore, SNW or KNY, when the band was actually pushing the sonic envelope and finding new ways to take their signature sound into new dimensions. Not surprising the majority of their fanbase wasn’t into it; that was thinking-man’s metal and it’s definitely not going to resonate with everyone..

Ohms has some bangers on it, even if 3/4 of the album is just basically Gore-lite. Hexagram II Genesis, Acid Hologram Redux Headless and Hearts/Wires remix Pomeji are great, I’ll admit. If they had just cut Radiant City and Mini-WGTB This Link Is Dead, claimed the whole thing was Eros and left it at that, it would be an album fans will remember a decade from now, the way SNW has aged so gracefully..

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

^^^ Headless is miles ahead of AH for me. It is pretty much two different songs in one. Radiant City is simple, but man, does it get you moving. I rememeber someone bringing up the Gore comparison and I have to agree with that.

SNW has aged pretty dam good and Beware is one of the best tracks they have ever written... It's pretty huge. I just recently revisited the SNW demos and Untitled #10 is a nice little track... I dunno, that album has this weird, eerie vibe about it that I cannot quite explain; even with the demos.

New track off BS:

[cahernandez]

^^^ Headless is miles ahead of AH for me. It is pretty much two different songs in one. Radiant City is simple, but man, does it get you moving. I rememeber someone bringing up the Gore comparison and I have to agree with that.

SNW has aged pretty dam good and Beware is one of the best tracks they have ever written... It's pretty huge. I just recently revisited the SNW demos and Untitled #10 is a nice little track... I dunno, that album has this weird, eerie vibe about it that I cannot quite explain; even with the demos.

New track off BS:

The added piano is great...really excited to hear the whole thing next week!

[Prettybrokenspiral]

^^^ Headless is miles ahead of AH for me. It is pretty much two different songs in one. Radiant City is simple, but man, does it get you moving. I rememeber someone bringing up the Gore comparison and I have to agree with that.

SNW has aged pretty dam good and Beware is one of the best tracks they have ever written... It's pretty huge. I just recently revisited the SNW demos and Untitled #10 is a nice little track... I dunno, that album has this weird, eerie vibe about it that I cannot quite explain; even with the demos.

Headless is probably my favorite song on Ohms at present. It would have worked great on the second half of Gore, but the riffs in that song are heavy as fuck..

SNW is an underrated masterpiece. I play the whole thing from beginning to end and it just gets better with age. Super heavy, super atmospheric and super weird at times. A lot of fans are of the mind that the stuff on the Ezrin demos that didn't make the album is stronger than what actually did wind up on there. I don't know if I'd go that far, but drugs and tension aside, they were coming up with some pretty creative shit during those sessions..

[Wretchedest]

Whoever said Adrenaline and Like Linus are the band’s only efforts that are pushing the envelope or whatever, you seriously need to be committed..

Ohms isn’t bad. Just very safe and catering to what the fans want, and probably not really what the band wants, per se. It still amazes me that after 4.5 years, what comprises Ohms is the best they could come up with. All they are doing is repeating themselves on this record. You can’t say that about Gore, SNW or KNY, when the band was actually pushing the sonic envelope and finding new ways to take their signature sound into new dimensions. Not surprising the majority of their fanbase wasn’t into it; that was thinking-man’s metal and it’s definitely not going to resonate with everyone..

Ohms has some bangers on it, even if 3/4 of the album is just basically Gore-lite. Hexagram II Genesis, Acid Hologram Redux Headless and Hearts/Wires remix Pomeji are great, I’ll admit. If they had just cut Radiant City and Mini-WGTB This Link Is Dead, claimed the whole thing was Eros and left it at that, it would be an album fans will remember a decade from now, the way SNW has aged so gracefully..

Hi. I said that. And I meant was, at the time they made that music it was more groundbreaking for music as a whole than any of their subsequent albums related to their environments. I'm going to stand by that statement. That sound would quickly become mainstream, of course, so in retrospect it's hard to understand it that way. Deftones were an early proponent of a sound. I would say other albums in the catalogue are more experimental within the context of just Deftones.

Like Linus... There's still nothing else that sounds quite the way that does.

[jmtd]

Teenager Robert smith remix video

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Like Linus sounds like a bunch of teenagers in their garage band who are obsessed with Tool and Primus

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

A lot of fans are of the mind that the stuff on the Ezrin demos that didn't make the album is stronger than what actually did wind up on there. I don't know if I'd go that far, but drugs and tension aside, they were coming up with some pretty creative shit during those sessions..

Agreed. I hadn't listened to it in awhile and it popped up randomly on my playlist and it turned my head. You can tell they were really in a certain atmosphere during those sessions. Dam, I wish a few had some lyrics attached them.