January 6th Committee Hearings

[the duder]

I wish we could manage to keep this thread on topic (the hearings of this Committee) for even one fucking page.

Yesterday was surreal to watch. The entire account of the December meeting with Powell sounded like a first degree dumpster fire, Rudy not knowing the names of the rooms in the white house but testifying that it felt "pretty cool" to sit alone in the Roosevelt room (iirc) further verified that the guy is a clown.

Hearing Pascale's remorse about 1/6 was surprising, and Cippoloni's recommendation that Pence be awarded the presidential medal of freedom is sure to further enrage 45.

Oh, and the witness tampering allegation was crazy.

[Wretchedest]

Not only will Trump run in 2024, but he will most likely win. Or DeSantis, who is just as bad if not worse.

It's at the point where I kinda just hope he and some Supreme Court justices pass over the next 2 years.

At the very least one will be eviscerated by the other
Trump will almost certainly get the nom but he will turn all his people against deSantis in process. If DeSantis gets the nom that's a better case scenario, he doesn't have the charisma or personality or the cult following of trump, he can't win.

[allegro]

Yesterday was surreal to watch. The entire account of the December meeting with Powell sounded like a first degree dumpster fire, Rudy not knowing the names of the rooms in the white house but testifying that it felt "pretty cool" to sit alone in the Roosevelt room (iirc) further verified that the guy is a clown.

Hearing Pascale's remorse about 1/6 was surprising, and Cippoloni's recommendation that Pence be awarded the presidential medal of freedom is sure to further enrage 45.

Oh, and the witness tampering allegation was crazy.

And Sydney Powell is more nuts than I ever imagined.

The December meeting log including Marjorie Taylor Greene? She wasn’t SWORN INTO OFFICE until JANUARY 3RD!!

And why was the Overstock guy there? Cippoloni: “Who are you?”

Who was the person Trump contacted before their Committee hearing?

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/12/11110...-meeting-jan-6

Former White House lawyer Eric Herschmann said the outside group suggested that Venezuela had meddled with the election and that Nest brand thermostats hooked up to the internet were changing votes.

[allegro]

According to the White House log, here are the members of Congress who were in attendance at the December 21st meeting (per yesterday's J6 Hearing):

• Rep. Brian Babin (R-Texas)
• Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.)
• Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.)
• Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas)
• Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.)
• Rep. Andy Harris (R-Md.)
• Rep. Jody Hice (R-Ga.)
• Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio)
• Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.)
• Now-Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) (wasn't sworn in until 1/2/20)

Trump awarded Rep. Jim Jordan the Presidential Medal of Freedom before he [Trump] was evicted from the White House.

[allegate]

One of my coworkers is a huge Trump guy and was on leave for the 5th, 6th, and 7th of January. His leave was submitted 12/21/2020. We've wondered if he was involved but have nothing more than huge coincidences.

yeah I may have visited the fbi tips page yesterday.

[cdm]

yeah I may have visited the fbi tips page yesterday.

o.O

Did you just run your finger across the fender or did you drive it off the lot?

[allegro]

Breaking development: The witness Trump attempted to contact prior to their testimony is a White House support staffer.

[the duder]

According to the White House log, here are the members of Congress who were in attendance at the December 21st meeting (per yesterday's J6 Hearing):

• Rep. Brian Babin (R-Texas)
• Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.)
• Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.)
• Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas)
• Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.)
• Rep. Andy Harris (R-Md.)
• Rep. Jody Hice (R-Ga.)
• Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio)
• Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.)
• Now-Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) (wasn't sworn in until 1/2/20)

Trump awarded Rep. Jim Jordan the Presidential Medal of Freedom before he [Trump] was evicted from the White House.

There has to be a mechanism to dismiss these seditionists, and prevent them from ever running for office again....right?

[allegate]

yeah.

The point is if he violated the 14th Amendment.

Which would prevent him from running in 2024. Or ever again.

14th Amendment, Section 3

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

[allegro]

[cdm]

Not sure what to make of this but I hope a second set of hearings brings receipts to expose the actions of sitting members of Congress.

Everyone is getting all excited about this attempted witness tampering but I have a feeling DOJ will let him skate on this too. Unless they have ironclad proof as to the motivation for the call, such as corroborating text messages, voicemails, emails. But if it's just a missed call...there's too much reasonable doubt there for them to prosecute.

[Swykk]

I say again, this is good for people who didn’t already know or strongly suspect to find out, but I have no reason to believe this will bring Trump down because plenty of other shit should have and didn’t.

My response to these sessions each time they happen is the same—FUCKING DO SOMETHING, MERRICK.

[Jinsai]

It's just obscene. We all suspected/knew he was involved in some capacity with the insurrection, we knew he didn't do enough to stop it as it got out of control, but the degree to which he was forewarned and perhaps even involved in the orchestration... Now we have Bannon outlining how Trump is going to try to claim early victory on election night, because he KNEW that the mail-in ballots would lean democratic and would be counted later.

We all knew that him calling early was desperate and that he was trying to claim victory while he was ahead, and we knew he knew about how the mail-in ballots would lean... but to hear that they sat around and planned to do this as a strategic move to cast uncertainty on the outcome of the election? That's fucking nuts considering the ensuing coup attempt.

[allegate]

[allegro]

People are pissed at Merrick Garland, but he’s not known to be a quick prosecutor driven by politics. He’s methodical and thorough, because charges must stick. Doing something for the sake of satisfaction of the public would be a circus that would not end well.

I’m more satisfied by the hearings, themselves, and the evidence they’re bringing forth. Trump is the shit gift that keeps on giving. Trump managed to not only lose the Presidential race last time; he also lost the House and Senate for Republicans. And I’m hoping the midterms will be just as big of a loss for him.

[allegro]

No, not “insane” … their leader directs them. That’s part of their ongoing coup attempt.


https://www.thenation.com/article/po...hearing/tnamp/

[allegate]

People are pissed at Merrick Garland, but he’s not known to be a quick prosecutor driven by politics. He’s methodical and thorough, because charges must stick. Doing something for the sake of satisfaction of the public would be a circus that would not end well.

I’m more satisfied by the hearings, themselves, and the evidence they’re bringing forth. Trump is the shit gift that keeps on giving. Trump managed to not only lose the Presidential race last time; he also lost the House and Senate for Republicans. And I’m hoping the midterms will be just as big of a loss for him.

I hate that there are so many shit heels running for office right now. sure it's easy to have the money for these campaigns when you have assholes donating left and right (mostly right ba-dum-tish) but it's making politics look like a complete loss for the foreseeable future.

an interesting thought experiment/thread.

[Swykk]

@allegro Slow and methodical is okay but he has been given plenty to work with here and can’t seem to be bothered by any of it. At this point, I’m leaning toward “too political (fears damage to his reputation and job) and spineless.”

Why are MJT, Gosar, Cruz, Gaetz, Jordan, Hawley, etc still free to go about their jobs like they didn’t help carry this out? Why are Alex Jones and Roger Stone free men? We know they assisted/plotted as well.

Why is AOC serving as a better AG than bored, don’t-wanna-rock-the-boat Garland?

DO SOMETHING, MERRICK.

[allegate]

to be fair to him he doesn't have to take any overt actions because everything is getting out there.

[allegro]

@allegro Slow and methodical is okay but he has been given plenty to work with here and can’t seem to be bothered by any of it. At this point, I’m leaning toward “too political (fears damage to his reputation and job) and spineless.”

Why are MJT, Gosar, Cruz, Gaetz, Jordan, Hawley, etc still free to go about their jobs like they didn’t help carry this out? Why are Alex Jones and Roger Stone free men? We know they assisted/plotted as well.

Why is AOC serving as a better AG than bored, don’t-wanna-rock-the-boat Garland?

DO SOMETHING, MERRICK.

Any prosecutor requires actual evidence. Not "they were in a meeting" evidence that doesn't actually mean anything other than "they were in a meeting."

"Why are MJT, Gosar, Cruz, Gaetz, Jordan, Hawley, etc still free to go about their jobs like they didn’t help carry this out? Why are Alex Jones and Roger Stone free men? We know they assisted/plotted as well."

So far, there is no absolute clear smoking gun evidence that would hold up in a court of law. There's the 1st Amendment. At most, at this point, there's maybe incitement of violence for Jones and Stone. But, a coup? Insurrection? That has to be in accordance with the actual statutes. And a Federal prosecutor has to prove their case with evidence.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385

What is desired is to tie Trump to all of it, and to have all of these minor players as the collateral damage.

The definition contained in the law, itself, hamstrings going after these people. Sure, it all looks good in a Congressional Committee hearing where there ARE NO Rules of Evidence. But, start throwing in actual LAWS that dictate evidence rules, and this won't get past the first day of court.

No judge would even allow that kind of evidence under the Rules of Evidence. There must be clear, quantifiable evidence. Like phone records, texts, several sworn witness statements that matches up with physical evidence, etc. etc. Hearsay and the supposition of "guilt" isn't evidence. "They must have done 'it'" (what is "it?" what Federal law was broken? is there case law that clearly states that they did, or even perhaps not per their defense? what evidence is required to prove that they did?) isn't evidence under the Federal Rules. The Democrats will be the laughing stock if Garland brings charges at this point and it all gets thrown out. (Because it will.)

Nothing like this has ever happened in the history of this country. Ever. It's a Constitutional crisis. The case against Trump in Georgia is actually a better case that is less problematic, because it isn't a case that creates a Constitutional crisis. It's a free state going after a former (not sitting) President.

AOC majored in economics and international relations. She's good at whipping up a fervor, but she has to be careful to not whip up cynicism, because it could absolutely backfire for the midterms. Democrats are experts at taking their toys and going home to pout, while the Republicans win all the prizes. It's happened TONS of times in history; we've HANDED Republicans their victories.

People need to get out and vote all these pricks out of office. Criminal proceedings isn't the answer; voting is. The wheels of justice are slow for a reason, otherwise we'd be Russia.

The only way that the Republicans have managed to stay in power this long is: (1) they stick together and vote together, all the time, and (2) they cheat; but, they don't know disillusionment and cynicism toward their own party enough to not vote or to switch parties; they'd rather die.

The hearings are, methodically, laying out a case that:

* people showed up that day on January 6th because the President told them to do it

* those people's intentions were to "stop the steal" by literally STEALING the certified electoral ballots and by interrupting the proceedings and sending the votes back to the states and changing the election

* the President fully intended to show up at the Capitol, himself, to assist in this plan

* there was a plan for the President to declare the "Insurrection Act" so that he could use the Military to beat down any opposition

Plus more stuff all the time, as more people jump the Trump Ship.

[Swykk]

Yes, I’m aware the target is Trump (as it should be). There’s been plenty of evidence showing he did this and especially did nothing to stop it. I don’t see how that’s any kind of constitutional crisis. He attempted a coup.

We (DOJ, Garland) should him accountable or just say fascism is fine.

For fuck’s sake, one of those stupid twats (I forget if it was Boebert or MTG) did a tour where she showed these racist militia wanna be assholes where to fucking go.

This isn’t difficult or at least it shouldn’t be.

[allegro]

I don’t see how that’s any kind of constitutional crisis. He attempted a coup.

The attempted coup WAS the Constitutional crisis.

We almost lost our country that day. Entirely. Arresting Trump will undoubtedly cause what people fear is a violent revolution or another coup; Trump knew and knows this; he's still leading his followers, now, he doesn't care if he causes violence.

I can't stress it enough that the evidence is lining up and you have no evidence that Garland or the Department of Justice ISN'T doing its job right now.



Here's a list of what has been done so far: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases

See also: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...ripts-00040267

In a related development, prosecutors agreed Thursday to delay a scheduled August trial of the leadership of the Proud Boys, a pro-Trump militia group. Justice Department lawyers reiterated that they expect the House panel to make the witness interview transcripts public in early September, which could roil a trial if it is underway.

Five Proud Boy leaders are set to go before a jury on seditious conspiracy charges for their activities on Jan. 6. The proposed trial delay to December — backed by some defendants — would require the approval of the federal judge handling the case.

In addition to the transcript dispute, prosecutors are facing increasing complaints from defense attorneys that the Jan. 6 panel’s releasing selected details of its investigation — including in currently ongoing public hearings — is unfair to their clients. They are demanding access to all the records and have expressed concerns that they might all be abruptly made public right in the middle of a Proud Boys trial.

Indeed, the letter about the rift between the panel and the Justice Department emerged publicly Thursday after prosecutors filed it in the Proud Boys case.

[allegro]

Re MTG or Boebert "did a tour where she showed these racist militia wanna be assholes where to fucking go"

There's rumors of that, but no substantiated proof, otherwise the Capitol Police and Congress would have already referred charges to the DC Department of Justice. There are security cameras all over the Capitol, inside and out.

The problem (as AOC and others have asserted) is that there may have been some inside job elements to January 6th, meaning some Capitol Police. Rep. Ayanna Pressley still asserts that her panic button had been ripped out of her office.

So, any evidence implicating MTG or LB would be non-existent.

This was planned for months in advance. These people covered their tracks, to try to be sure that there was insufficient evidence.

No, the DoJ isn't being transparent, even though the Public loves knowing every single thing that's going on; the DoJ doesn't have to be transparent, its policy is that they NOT be transparent during ongoing investigations (to not hinder the investigation).

Look at all the shit that was already recovered from fucking Mar-a-Lago that Trump STOLE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE! He had boxes and boxes of documents loaded into crates, ILLEGALLY, and put into trucks and carted down to Mar-a-Lago, and it's reported that ALL OF IT is CONFIDENTIAL.

Had the DoJ been constantly transparent about what it's doing, Trump would have thrown all that shit into the fireplace last year.

Had the DoJ been constantly transparent about what it's doing, Jeffrey Clark would have tossed all of his documents and electronics into the Potomac.

[allegro]

Breaking from the Washington Post:

A government watchdog accused the U.S. Secret Service of erasing texts from Jan. 5 and 6, 2021, after his office requested them as part of an inquiry into the U.S. Capitol attack, according to a letter sent to lawmakers this week.
Joseph V. Cuffari, head of the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Inspector General, wrote to the leaders of the House and Senate Homeland Security committees indicating that the text messages have vanished and that efforts to investigate the Jan. 6, 2021, attack were being hindered.
“

The Department notified us that many U.S. Secret Service (USSS) text messages, from January 5 and 6, 2021 were erased as part of a device-replacement program,” he wrote in a letter dated Wednesday and obtained by The Washington Post. The letter was earlier reported on by CNN.

[Jinsai]

we're going to need people in tech/security to tell us what this really potentially entails

[Swykk]

Perhaps I’m not being clear enough—we have laws prohibiting treason, yes? This is why it should not be any kind of constitutional crisis. We have prosecuted (and executed) traitors in this country before.

Put Trump in prison, start that process soon, or we will really lose the country maybe as soon as November.

[M1ke]

Laws don't matter when you're an old white dude in power. You can do whatever you want, as long as you scream deflections the whole time.

I'd love to be proven wrong here, but they're all going to walk, because they're white and they're in power.

[allegro]

Laws don't matter when you're an old white dude in power. You can do whatever you want, as long as you scream deflections the whole time.

I'd love to be proven wrong here, but they're all going to walk, because they're white and they're in power.

That’s the problem, yes.

Trump came pretty damned close to becoming dictator Trump on January 6th.

While I have generally had disdain for VP Mike Pence, the J6 Hearings and evidence shows that he didn’t trust Secret Service, refused to get into the car after the Senate chamber was evacuated. Pence wanted to return to the House to finish the job, he allegedly feared that the Secret Service would move him to an unknown location snd would NOT return him, hence the process would be stopped, completely.

Which would have meant Game Over, Trump could step in, institute the Insurrection Clause, etc.

Had Black Lives Matter tried any of this shit, they’d already be in jail.

What’s the constant refrain of January 6th participants?

“What about Black Life Matters rioters? What about ANTIFA?”

@Swykk - “Traitors” means “treason” and no we have hardly ever convicted traitors. We have never once executed someone for treason in this country. Treason requires us to be involved in a war. An actual declared war with a foreign country.

In Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution, treason is specifically limited to levying war against the U.S., or adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. This means where we are in a declared war against another country, and someone (an American) provides aid and comfort to that other country.

“Levying war” means the assembly of armed people to overthrow of the government or to resist its laws. “Enemies” are subjects of a foreign government that is in open hostility with the United States (war).

[allegro]

It's just obscene. We all suspected/knew he was involved in some capacity with the insurrection, we knew he didn't do enough to stop it as it got out of control, but the degree to which he was forewarned and perhaps even involved in the orchestration... Now we have Bannon outlining how Trump is going to try to claim early victory on election night, because he KNEW that the mail-in ballots would lean democratic and would be counted later.

We all knew that him calling early was desperate and that he was trying to claim victory while he was ahead, and we knew he knew about how the mail-in ballots would lean... but to hear that they sat around and planned to do this as a strategic move to cast uncertainty on the outcome of the election? That's fucking nuts considering the ensuing coup attempt.

All of this will be the subject of next week’s Prime Time Select Committee Hearing.

[Swykk]

So planning a coup isn’t an act of treason? Inciting a violent takeover isn’t an act of war?

Anyway, back to my original point. If he’s just going to get away with it, why dangle the carrot/what’s the point of these hearings?

This is all so infuriating and if Garland just sits on his hands, this whole thing is done in November. And we will watch in two short obnoxious years as the capitalist oligarchy becomes fascist. Get ready for insane state laws, multiple Biden childish impeachment attempts, etc. And in 2025, those 2 years will look quaint.