A thread about Courtney Love on ETS, oh boy

[Swykk]

Agreed @sweeterthan, and honestly it’s surprising as well as disappointing to see a few folks here advocating for such a shitty person. If you’d asked me before that waste of breath (CL) made her dumbass Instagram post if ANYONE at ETS would take it seriously, considering the source being one of the most unreliable I could ever think of, I’d have laughed and said there’s no fucking way. Zero credibility. I’m kinda pissed this thread has this many pages over this nonsense. It’s just another of her lies.

In fact, can we get a mod to cut this shit mountain from this thread out of respect to actual victims?

[CSPSmith]

Anyone who thinks this woman is "insane" or unbalanced or even worse, a victim, is a fool. There is calculation behind her actions and her words. Regardless of what he may or may not have done, you're seeing exactly what she wants you to see and believe. She's gaslighting every single one of you, and possibly even him.

First, she never recanted anything. She "apologized for her words." That's what an abuser says when they're trying to make you doubt your own feelings and not take an ounce of blame for their abuse. "I'm sorry you feel that way," is another way to put it. She's not really sorry for anything. This is just her way of wounding him without getting any blood on her hands.

Second, one reason she's not sorry is because she didn't really, actually do anything to be sorry for, did she? Did she call him a pedophile? Nope. Did she accuse him of sexually abusing anyone? No again. Did she say he raped anyone?

Of course she didn't! She's too smart for that! One, she could get sued for slander unless she could prove it (and I highly doubt she can) and two, flat out saying what you mean isn't the way emotional and psychological manipulation works. Master manipulators (gaslighters) insinuate everything. They never paint a clear picture of anything because the last thing they want you to do is have even the slightest grip on what's going on. Case in point, what the hell does he do now? How is he supposed to handle this? Oh, and by the way, was there actually something terrible that happened to a child that he was too drunk or stoned to remember? Should he feel like shit right now?

None of us know the answer to that and he probably doesn't know either. But you know who does know?

She does. She is the manipulator. She's the gaslighter. She is the abuser and quite possibly has been all along. Besides, if she saw a child being abused back then and didn't say or do anything about it she is just as guilty as he is. She was a grown woman. She was not 12. She should have spoken up before or while it was happening. Not 20 years later when it was oh, so convenient to destroy someone's life and career.

As for why she would do this, besides the fact that some people are just assholes, it's very simple. Twenty years ago there were three crabs in a pot. Her, Manson and Trent. Trent climbed out. He cleaned up, sobered up, and became a downright respectable husband, father and musician.

That left her and Manson in that pot. And oh, hell no, that was never going to float with either of them. What she's doing right now is putting him back in his place instead of climbing her ass up to where he is. How dare you act like you're not the same drug addicted, messed up, easily dismissed fuck up that we all used to be? How dare you better yourself or clean up or leave us behind?

You don't have to be a rock star to learn just how fast the people around you - sometimes the ones closest to you - will try to tear you down when you outgrow them. I just hope he turns to what truly matters in life - his wife, his kids, his music and his real friends - and doesn't let her do to him what she may have done (either accidentally or purposely) to Kurt.

The strange thing about this is that I actually like Courtney. I don't know her personally but she seems like a strong, brilliant woman who's incredibly good at playing and winning games men have played for years. But women who are exceptional at this kind of game have to be careful not to use their talents the way men have for so many years lest we make the same mistakes they have. In short, this was a total dick move on her part. And women don't have to be dicks to be powerful.

[CSPSmith]

And I agree. Close the thread.

[Leviathant]

In the 90s, a lot of women who achieved national levels of recognition were written off as "crazy" or "bitch" or "stupid" or "sluts" or whatever, and decades later, that culture of misogyny appears in very stark relief when looking back with a modern eye at the celebrity gossip, late night talk shows, print press, and more.

That doesn't mean that everyone's suddenly a reliable narrator.

I largely kept my head out of this stupid fiasco, aside from adding some editorializing to the top of that Yahoo chat 'transcript' that got linked to last week.

I'm proud of the response here, it largely echoes my own thoughts on the topic. It would be a hell of a reckoning and astonishingly disappointing if something awful surfaced and was real, but as linked earlier, self-described groupies have spent decades looking for anything to give Trent a hard time, peaking when he finally got married. Nothing's come of it, and I'm not really surprised, given my own experiences at dozens and dozens of shows, and running a NIN news site for 20+ years.

There's better language to use when talking about Courtney Love. She can be right about somethings while still being demonstrably unreliable. She's clearly got demons of her own, and that's a real shame - and as these six pages cut from the other thread demonstrate, she's a highly effective chaos agent.

I've never met her, I don't expect that I ever will. I try not to let her take up any more of my attention than she already has. But then I also DGAF about TMZ or other celebrity gossip trash.

I often say I wouldn't wish fame on my worst enemy. Count this as one more reason why.

I don't want to lock this thread. I hope y'all will let it sink on its own.

[ickyvicky]

Now she's trying to start shit about someone "stealing" her cover album. Girl, find something else to do. Honestly, I didn't even think of Live Through This when I saw that.

https://pitchfork.com/news/courtney-...cover-concept/

[eachpassingphase]

Now she's trying to start shit about someone "stealing" her cover album. Girl, find something else to do. Honestly, I didn't even think of Live Through This when I saw that.

https://pitchfork.com/news/courtney-...cover-concept/

The depressed/deranged beauty queen look isn’t even a thing that Courtney invented. It’s basically a trope at this point ever since the original “Carrie” movie came out. Maybe before then even.

But sure, Olivia “stole” it from Courtney. Ok beloved, keep telling yourself that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[allegro]

Now she's trying to start shit about someone "stealing" her cover album. Girl, find something else to do. Honestly, I didn't even think of Live Through This when I saw that.

https://pitchfork.com/news/courtney-...cover-concept/

Weird, I instantly thought of it.

The Carrie artwork didn’t look like that, at all. Carrie doesn’t have any Alice Cooper mascara running all over her eyes. Sissy Spacek didn’t even wear any makeup in that movie.

Love’s inspiration for the art WAS Carrie.

She got photographer Ellen von Unwerth to do the shoot.

https://www.anothermag.com/art-photo...en-von-unwerth

And if those “best of” lists are any testament to Von Unwerth’s work, Billboard – back in 2015 – placed Live Through This at number 12 in their 50 Greatest Cover Albums of All Time.

The “Live Through This” cover always makes me think some burnout chick in high school (Dazed and Confused) made herself Prom Queen while she’s totally drunk. I love it.


The running eye makeup in both covers is exactly the same. Again, zero makeup on Carrie. Love isn’t asking for money. She says a thank you to her and Von Unwerth and maybe some flowers would be nice.

[poinoup]

Get the Elvis estate on the phone, there's been so many "ripoffs" of the cover of his debut.

[allegro]

Get the Elvis estate on the phone, there's been so many "ripoffs" of the cover of his debut.

Of a font color and style. And they weren’t coy about where it came from. But it wasn’t copyrighted.

And neither is Love’s and Van Unwerth’s concept, although the cover photo itself, is.