Bite me
Well, but that's a "trick." It's not the "natural" voice. My "natural" voice borders on shrill, it's always been this way. But she (prior post) revised her "natural." We worked with some speech and phonation for my communication degree and there can be some level of stress on the larynx if you don't do this stuff correctly.Originally Posted by playwithfire
Last edited by allegro; 04-11-2014 at 11:49 AM.
Active Member
Well, okay. Lots of people talk in mix, though, so I think it really depends on what you want out of things. There are lots of ways to not screw up your voice. I'm actually really curious about this process.
edit - OOH. BAM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_t...#Physiological
Last edited by playwithfire; 04-11-2014 at 10:05 PM.
Bite me
A series of tricks, yup. Whole bunch of them! Mostly the larynx, though. The voice is very complicated. Fascinating stuff.
Active Member
So, today was pretty insane. I took some pretty big steps today.
First, I went out shopping with a friend of mine this afternoon. I put on mascara and, what the hell, lip gloss. Just walked around with it. Just decided to say "fuck it."
While we were shopping I was talking to her and was like, yeah, I almost think I need a purse at this point because the last time I went to my support group dressed I had no pockets and thus no place to put the insane amount of stuff I carry around with me. She's like, so...why don't you buy a purse? So that's what I did. I was never interested in purses up until this point but I have to say, now that I have one, I kind of love it. I felt very feminine wearing it, using it. Every time I opened it up and pulled something out of it it made me happy.
So, after this afternoon's shopping trip, I went out to my support group meeting dressed again tonight. And afterward we went to Denny's. So I officially, for the first time in my entire life, actually went out in public dressed up. It was surprisingly easy. I was a little nervous at first (just a little) but by about halfway through I didn't even give it a second thought. I was a little concerned about the bathroom (since I haven't had any hormones and haven't transitioned, like, at all, there was no doubt I was using the men's room still...but the thought of going in there in a skirt and make up was a but unnerving). Fortunately there was no one in there.
Then I realized that I needed something at the store, and I didn't want to wait until tomorrow. Crap. Do I go home and change or do I just go as is? Fuck it, I'll just go the way I am.
Yeah. That felt like a good idea right up until I pulled into the Wal-Mart parking lot. Why it was so crowded at 11:45 at night is beyond me but there were a lot of cars in the parking lot. I looked at the door and just waves and waves of people were coming out. I hesitated for a moment but then I went for it. And the entire time I was in there I was saying to myself- out loud, under my breath- why am I doing this, why am I doing this, why am I doing this? I got what I needed, stood for what felt like an excruciatingly long time while the guy in front of me sloooooowly bagged up his stuff, counted his change, scratched his ass, tapped his foot a few times, recounted his money, etc., etc. All the while there's no line behind me but if I was there any longer there would have been. All I wanted, more than anything in the world, was to just get my crap and get out of there as quickly as possible. Finally the checkout opened up, I bought my stuff and high tailed it to my car.
Other than one guy who I could have sworn did a double take at me as I walked by him, no one seemed to notice me. But man, that was uncomfortable. From what everyone who has transitioned has told me, it gets easier every time you do it, but I'm definitely not there yet. Not something I plan on repeating any time soon.
But yeah. Oh, also, the people at the support group were super nice. It was great to talk to people who have been through the same thing. There were so many times tonight where one person would say something and the rest of us would go, yup, I've been there, I know EXACTLY what you mean. It was funny, one of the women there said she had felt this way since she was four years old. And I thought to myself, huh, that's the exact age when I first realized it, too. And before I could say anything, another woman goes, "Oh, wow, I was four, too!" And then another woman said, "Yeah, I was four when I first noticed, too. Weird." And then I said it and then I think maybe even another person said it. All of us, or most of us, it seemed, pinpointed the age of four. Weird.
Anyway, it has been a great day and I am tired and going to bed. Kind of bummed to take these clothes off but tomorrow's another day (and, much like last weekend, I will wrap up this weekend dressed as a woman pretty much the whole time, with the exception of running to the store tomorrow...not doing that again).
she/her/hers
re: going to the store - there is something about bix box stores that gives me panic attacks, so i actually fully understand why that, of all of the things you did that, caused you so much anxiety. but serious props on not only being able to deal with it, but for all of the positive experiences you had!
Active Member
Thanks!
Yeah, I decided that from now on, dressed or not, I'm going to carry my purse with me whenever I go out. For a few reasons- one, I like it and it makes me feel more feminine, two I really want to live this more and more and this is just another aspect of that and three I really want to push myself to do things, even if they make me uncomfortable, because the more I do it the more I will get used to it and feel better about it.
I went out a couple of times yesterday with my purse (while otherwise being in guy mode) and it was EXTREMELY uncomfortable. But I'm going to keep doing it. I can't move forward if I don't keep pushing myself to move further into uncharted territory.
Real Hippie Asshole
I was going to ask about the role of gender stereotypes in the world of trans, but I feel like that was cleared up rather well right on the first page! That's what I get for being a lurker and not starting at the beginning...
Instead I'll ask how you guys all feel about the word "tranny." Up until recently, I wasn't aware that was considered an offense word. Is that universally accepted as a no-no, even when not being used in an insulting way? Just curious how the ETS crew feels about it.
she/her/hers
i feel the same way about it that i do about fag, which is to say it makes my blood boil and i don't think anyone should use it.
i know that a lot of people in the gay community use the F word because they've "taken it back" but i don't actually see any power in doing that. the word still has deeply ingrained negativity in it, especially for me personally, and i hate it.
likewise, i have never found the T word to be anything but terribly offensive. if i ever transition and someone calls me that, you can bet i'm going to lose my temper.
Active Member
Agreed. I think it's a disgusting word and I can't stand hearing it.
grrr. woof.
as a gay man, i understand the power of a hateful word (and i stopped using the "t" word years ago), but this week there was a big ruckus over rupaul's use of "she-mail" (as in "ooh, girl, you've got she mail" -- drag race's tyra mail, essentially). ru addressed it, apologized, removed it from the show, and will edit it out in future reruns.
this was done the day chaz bono and his grandmother were special guests. that's just anecdotal info, but coincidental.
was this necessary? does the term "she mail," used in this context, bother any trans members here?
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Not a fan of the word she-male, either. To me, tranny and she-male come from the less accepting and ignorant culture of, "Oh, look, it's a freak in a dress" and not actually seeing trans women for the women (and human beings) that they are. It's a way to strip people of their humanity, to make them the butt of a joke instead of acknowledging them as a human being. I understand some people may not mean it that way, but perhaps they haven't thought it all the way through. But yeah. They're both derogatory words, in my book, and anyone who calls me either one of those things is going to get ripped a new one.
grrr. woof.
it's "she mail."
okay, thanks for answering.
Active Member
Oh, sorry, dude. I thought you were mentioning that as an example but speaking more broadly about the term in general.
grrr. woof.
no, my question was mainly about word policing and where we eventually draw the line. i read an op-ed in huff post written by a trans woman who was baffled by the controversy.
Last edited by kel; 04-16-2014 at 08:51 PM.
Bite me
She MAIL? Like, YOU'VE GOT SHE MAIL? Like Tyra mail bwa ha ha ha that's too funny!!!!
We have a het friend who has magazines and videos devoted to she-male porn. Lots and lots of it. It was rather shocking to us when we discovered it during a party at his house but maybe not all that shocking actually. His wife knew about it. But then he got caught hanging out too much with a singer named Michelle from the Kit Kat Lounge and he was confused. I don't know the term for this but Michelle was GORGEOUS, tall, black, with huge boobs and a huge schlong and she liked having big boobs and a huge schlong. And singing as a female at the Kit Kat.
Last edited by allegro; 04-16-2014 at 09:31 PM.
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There's no term. It's a matter of whatever Michelle wanted to be called. I would just call her a woman unless corrected, unless she lived off the clock as a guy.
I think this all comes back to gender and sexuality being a spectrum, not a series of clear options.
(For the record I am VERY attracted to that combination of sex characteristics.)
Bite me
Some of my gay friends just LOVED boobs. LOVED. Beyond loved. Not that they wanted to have any on THEMSELVES, mind you, but ... Just saying ...
Last edited by allegro; 04-16-2014 at 09:25 PM.
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I was attracted to beautiful women with cocks long before I gave a shit about boobs. I like them more than I used to (used to be way more towards apathy) but it's still not about that. I like women. I like dicks. I like the combination.
Bite me
I don't think my gay friends were attracted to women at all, though. Just the boobs.
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But sexually or just "these are delightful"? Anyway, I don't want to derail too much. Some drag performers are creating an illusion, some are women and some prefer another label. It depends on the person.
Bite me
Good question. To the best of my knowledge, These are delightful.
Drag that have had surgery (Michelle, breast implants) are beyond illusion. It doesn't matter the label, though; like you said, it's whatever is good for them, but from what I can recall, Michelle was comfortable with she-male, she didn't seem too hung up on labels.
Last edited by allegro; 04-16-2014 at 10:07 PM.
Active Member
Yeah, so it comes down to how she thinks of herself (and she may not think of herself as a her at all, we have no way of knowing). There's no term. None that aren't offensive and only still usable in porn-land.
And plenty of drag performers have had extensive surgery (Detox, for an example) without having their sex characteristics changed. Illusion varies.
Bite me
I never had this conversation with her so I have no idea.
she/her/hers
part of the controversy started in a previous episode wherein they played a game for one of the mini-challenges: "female or she-male."
the object was to identify from a zoomed in portion of a picture whether the subject was a "biological woman or a psychological woman."
several transgender folks spoke out about its offensiveness, including Carmen Carrera, a former contestant on drag race, saying that it was offensive and kind of tasteless.
ru decided that it was best to avoid the controversy, so not only removed that segment from the episode, but also removed the "she-mail" from "oooh, girl, you've got she-mail" in all future episodes and airings of re-runs.
also, the woman on huffpo who wrote that op-ed claimed that "Trans people are forever indebted to drag for the mainstream explosion of gender as we see it today" which is utter fucking bullshit, in my opinion.
i love drag and i love rupaul and i love drag race, but that statement is ridiculous, and ru did the right thing by removing the offensive bits. i don't think that it's "over-policing" but proper awareness of your target audience, and sensitivity to the struggle of some of the members of the LGBTQ community.
i was never that bothered by the "she-mail" segment because it was a pun more than an insult, but the "female or shemale" segment definitely made me very uncomfortable. they could have easily called it "queen or drag queen" or something similar.
(source of that huff-po piece)
Last edited by eversonpoe; 04-16-2014 at 11:06 PM.
she/her/hers
oh, also, just as an aside, i almost exclusively watch trans porn. it's not a fetish, it's simply what i find attractive, and what i want to be, ideally. i hate the language used on a lot of the sites, but there's not much i can do about that except support the ones that are more inclusive and less offensive. but i've mentioned this over in the spice thread
Bite me
It kinda goes in both threads though, right? (I've never been in the spice thread and I'm not gonna start now)
Wouldn't "queen or drag queen" be offensive to somebody else?
As far as drag and mainstream, have you ever been to the Kit Kat? You're in Chicago, right? In the early-80s, the only drag clubs were gay bars. I went to drag contests in Detroit gay bars in the early 80s where everybody was channeling Diana Ross and Bonnie Pointer. The Kit Kat is in Boys Town, which is no longer Boys Town because Gen X and their kids moved in and the Boys were forced out and into Andersonville, and the biggest parties at the Kit Kat? Straight chick BACHELORETTE PARTIES! Shitfaced straight women drinking Cosmos. So it's def more "mainstream" than decades ago. Now, whether or not this has made it better (or worse) for the LGBT community I can't say.
Last edited by allegro; 04-17-2014 at 04:13 AM.
Active Member
I find it funny (sad) the number of people who are fond of drag culture but uncomfortable with gay culture. WHAT.
Active Member
Hold, up, RuPaul's been saying "she mail" every episode for six seasons and people are complaining now?
I think fetish is defined as what you find attractive that doesn't fit into the status quo? But I know what you mean, the slobbering image that it conjures up isn't flattering.
The male gays on ETS keep touching mine
Last edited by icklekitty; 04-17-2014 at 06:35 AM.
she/her/hers
like i said, it was the "female or shemale" segment that was the issue. i think that, rather than throw gasoline on the fire after that, ru decided to remove "you've got she-mail" as well.
like i also said, the "you've got she-mail" never bothered me, because it was a pun, rather than an insult. but i understand the reasoning behind getting rid of it.
she/her/hers
(i hope this wasn't in reference to anything i said)
i have no problem with gay culture, i just don't like the use of the F word by some members of the community.
i also kind of wish that the LGBTQ community wasn't all lumped together sometimes...there are plenty of people that fall under only one of those letters at a time who tend to be very discriminatory against others who are part of the overall community. i wish that oppression by the majority was more uniting of the associated minorities, but it seems like sometimes it really causes a big divide. :/
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