The Transgender Thread

[GulDukat]

I read this book in grad school and found it to be very informative and readable.
http://www.amazon.com/Queer-Theory-G...=riki+wilchins

Wilchins has written a few books on the subject.

[theruiner]

Anytime I've been on estrogen I've gained weight LOL.

Yeah, that was kind of what I was expecting. Or I had always heard that it's more difficult to lose weight on estrogen. I definitely didn't lose any weight. *shrug* I don't know. I'm just happy that something appears to be different.

[sick among the pure]

Yeah, that was kind of what I was expecting. Or I had always heard that it's more difficult to lose weight on estrogen. I definitely didn't lose any weight. *shrug* I don't know. I'm just happy that something appears to be different.

I don't really know enough about MtF hormone transitioning to help, but in my experience going the opposite direction, it wasn't so much about gaining or losing fat so much as redistribution. Less thighs and hips, more stomach.

Physical changes come on depressingly slow. It seems like it takes forever. But that's because you're waiting and wanting and expecting and living in it every second. I remember checking multiple times a day for my facial hair to start growing in and thickening. I didn't even really notice that it was noticeably different until I saw a friend I hadn't seen in months and the first thing she said to me was "Dude, your beard is SO BEARD!"



Slight aside, since I got my gender marker changed on my ID, I am ridiculously excited about NIN later this month. Last year, I had such problems at the boarder. I can't wait to see how much better things will be this time. Also, I had a fun exchange with the nin.com ticket lady, which lead to her remembering me every time she saw me. I hope she's still around, she was SO trans friendly.

[theruiner]

I don't really know enough about MtF hormone transitioning to help, but in my experience going the opposite direction, it wasn't so much about gaining or losing fat so much as redistribution. Less thighs and hips, more stomach.

Yeah, I had thought about that. I was thinking maybe the fat is just shifting away from my upper body to my thighs/hips/butt. Which I figured would be so depressingly slow I'm not even paying attention to it yet, because I know that will take forever. But I know, if I decide to continue down this path, that one day stuff will shift around. It will be fascinating when it does.

Physical changes come on depressingly slow. It seems like it takes forever. But that's because you're waiting and wanting and expecting and living in it every second. I remember checking multiple times a day for my facial hair to start growing in and thickening. I didn't even really notice that it was noticeably different until I saw a friend I hadn't seen in months and the first thing she said to me was "Dude, your beard is SO BEARD!"

Heh...yeah, you're totally spot on about living in it every second. I've spent the last month waiting for SOMETHING to change. And really, pretty much nothing has, at least not anything I've noticed myself (my face doesn't seem different to me so I just have to trust my friend on that, but I haven't seen it myself). And there's just so much variation on how long this takes. I have heard MANY people, many, many people, swear up and down that their breasts started growing in the first month. I've also heard many people say that's insane and their's took three months or more and not to expect anything before then. I know it's a YMMV thing but it could really go either way, and that both gives me hope and frustrated me at the same time.

Slight aside, since I got my gender marker changed on my ID, I am ridiculously excited about NIN later this month. Last year, I had such problems at the boarder. I can't wait to see how much better things will be this time. Also, I had a fun exchange with the nin.com ticket lady, which lead to her remembering me every time she saw me. I hope she's still around, she was SO trans friendly.

Woo! NIN! And trans friendly people are the best. I remember buying a dress, years ago, and without a hint of irony or sarcasm, the woman who was ringing up my stuff was like, "Oh, this is cute. This will look good on you." To her it was just a nice thing to say to someone that she probably didn't give another thought to, but to me it was something I will always remember.

[sick among the pure]

Woo! NIN! And trans friendly people are the best. I remember buying a dress, years ago, and without a hint of irony or sarcasm, the woman who was ringing up my stuff was like, "Oh, this is cute. This will look good on you." To her it was just a nice thing to say to someone that she probably didn't give another thought to, but to me it was something I will always remember.

Yeah, the first show I went to (Toronto, also where I'm going later this month) she was walking through the line taking IDs to give out wristbands. When she got to me, she asked if that was my name or my friend's (ironically, my friend who I was with, though she got her own ticket, has the same legal name as me.) All I said was "yeah, I could either pay to have my name legally changed, or see 3 NIN shows. Same price." and she INSTANTLY got what I was saying, and apologized. I just laughed it off, told her it's not a big deal, it happens a lot unfortunately. I let her know that I'd be seeing her again the next show in Cleveland, and then a few days later in Newark, so she could make a mental note. I made an unexpected trip to DC, too, where she instantly noticed me and talked to me for a few minutes. There is nothing better than having official NIN people that are trans friendly (from the choices on nin.com for gender identity, Trent seems good with it all too. Then again, you could also put down stuff like "ninja"...)

[eversonpoe]

the other day, i was talking to an online friend (cis female) who just got breast augmentation, discussing how her recovery was going, what made her choose to do it, and about my eventual desire to transition. after our discussion, i decided to start doing research, because i realized i didn't know much about the actual transition process.

in discussing my possible transition with my fiancee, i had mentioned wanting to keep my penis, because i do. despite wanting to essentially be a woman, i like having a penis. i like having that kind of sex with my female partner. and i guess i assumed that wouldn't be a problem given the prevalence of trans-women in porn who still perform*. but i was wrong. and i feel stupid.
i mean, it makes perfect sense that after a period of time on estrogen, you would lose your ability to ejaculate and eventually your ability to get erections, but i guess i had never thought about it. so my transition might be completely off the table, and i may have to just continue being (what i lovingly refer to myself as) a bearded lady.

*i noticed recently that bailey jay has lost her ability to ejaculate, but many of the other trans-actresses have not. how do they achieve this? maybe this is a question for @playwithfire

[playwithfire]

*i noticed recently that bailey jay has lost her ability to ejaculate, but many of the other trans-actresses have not. how do they achieve this? maybe this is a question for @playwithfire

This is actually something I learned recently as well, while talking with a friend who might transition.

Like, my familiarity with trans* bodies comes primarily from porn. And those women can do all that stuff, so it was surprising for me to realize that this is something estrogen eventually does away with. I actually still have a lot of questions around it, like, do most actresses take viagra, what? Especially in queer porn, where you see such a wide variety of body types and people having sex however they want... I wonder how often that's at play?

But, there isn't really a good place to learn that information.

Did you notice that with Bailey from watching her videos? I honestly haven't seen many of her videos.

[eversonpoe]

This is actually something I learned recently as well, while talking with a friend who might transition.

Like, my familiarity with trans* bodies comes primarily from porn. And those women can do all that stuff, so it was surprising for me to realize that this is something estrogen eventually does away with. I actually still have a lot of questions around it, like, do most actresses take viagra, what? Especially in queer porn, where you see such a wide variety of body types and people having sex however they want... I wonder how often that's at play?

But, there isn't really a good place to learn that information.

Did you notice that with Bailey from watching her videos? I honestly haven't seen many of her videos.

yeah, my experience parallels yours pretty much, except that i have seen a lot of bailey's videos. in the most recent ones, you can tell that she is still having orgasms, but there's nothing coming out at all. it's a bit disconcerting, because as much as i don't like cumshots, seeing someone with a penis have an orgasm without seeing come is so out of the ordinary.

i wish there was a good source of info for this. :/

[theruiner]

But, there isn't really a good place to learn that information.

Actually...this might be the perfect place to ask such a question: http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender

That's honestly something I've been struggling with myself. I always thought when I transitioned that I would eventually have bottom surgery and it wouldn't matter if I lost my erections or not. But now that I'm in this in-between stage of not knowing if I want to continue transitioning or not, being on estrogen and T blockers is starting to become scary, because at some point you're past the point of no return. I have heard from both my doctor and another trans person (from their personal experience) that erection problems can start within months (YMMV, obviously, and there are plenty of people who get them much longer than that). Also your testicles will eventually shrink and you become infertile. And I have to imagine if the testicles shrink that could affect your orgasm even if you can maintain an erection. I've also heard from one trans person that Viagra didn't work for them after their erections were gone. Which, if that's true for everyone or at least most people, would be permanent at some point (that's my understanding, anyway).

Any other advice or experience I have in this area is getting a bit too personal for me to answer here on the forums (just not comfortable with that) but if you have any questions about my experience in that particular area, feel free to PM me. I'm a pretty open book but some things I just don't want to talk about in an open forum, but as someone who's been on hormones for over a month now and experienced some of this, I'd be happy to share my experience so far. I know that's been really helpful for me during this whole thing.

Also, for anyone interested, the Trans* reddit threads are AMAZING. http://www.reddit.com/r/transgender/wiki/related

Edit: Oh, sorry, eversonpoe, I just saw this part.

yeah, my experience parallels yours pretty much, except that i have seen a lot of bailey's videos. in the most recent ones, you can tell that she is still having orgasms, but there's nothing coming out at all. it's a bit disconcerting, because as much as i don't like cumshots, seeing someone with a penis have an orgasm without seeing come is so out of the ordinary.

i wish there was a good source of info for this. :/

My understanding is that eventually your ejaculate at the very least changes color and consistency. Like I said, I have heard from people who have been able to maintain virility, but for how long I don't know. Whether it can be put off indefinitely for everyone or even just some people I don't know.

I will say this (noting the irony here), be very careful about information given to you from other trans* people. The stuff I'm certain about or almost certain about is stuff I've read over and over and over again over many years of research. After awhile you kind of get a feel for a lot of this stuff and I've learned a lot. But there have been times when people have given me very bad advice. I had a former therapist who runs one of my support groups tell me, flat out, that I should be on a trial run for "at least nine months." I very politely told him sure, thanks for the advice, but in my mind I was like, are you out of your fucking mind?! Yes, in nine months I very well may be infertile and not be able to get an erection again. I could- and this happens a lot- have full blown breasts. My brain is going to be changed from all the hormones, too. A nine month trial period is INSANE and when I mentioned it to my new therapist- who actually knows him- she completely agreed and even mentioned she wanted to talk to him about it because it's bad advice. I've also gotten bad advice from other trans* people, too, stuff that I know for sure isn't true but if I had listened to them I could have made a big mistake. So be careful. Consensus is the best thing you can get. That's why the reddit threads and message boards are so helpful because you get a wide variety of opinion. If you ask a question and 30 people answer the same way, pretty good chance they're correct, as opposed to some of the really bad misinformation that some well-meaning but uninformed members of the community will tell you.

Edit: But then I read a thread tonight on reddit about people who have had orchiectomies and they're still getting erections, so I don't know.

[icklekitty]

Consider also that not all women squirt. You'll be in that...demographic? Odds? You know what I mean. It could take it away, it could make no difference.

[ambergris]

Andreja Pejic (formerly known as Andrej Pejic) comes out as transgender:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5619259.html

[theruiner]

Tomorrow officially makes two months on hormones. At this point, I'm leaning toward transition pretty hard. I still am not sure, but I'm just kind of going with the flow for now. I really don't want to stop the hormones at this point. The only problem is, while my testosterone is nearly non-existent (most men are around 200 - 600 or something like that, with 200 being on the very low side; I am at 12 right now) my estrogen levels are barely above normal for a male (40 - 80, mine are at 96). And while I am seeing some very real physical changes (albeit still in the beginning stages) my estrogen should be WAY higher at this point. The thing is, I'm still technically in a "trial run" so until I'm a bit more sure I can't really ask my doc to up the dose just yet. But I can't stay this low forever. At some point, probably soon, I will very likely ask to up my dose. Then, hopefully, things will start happening a bit more quickly.

Anyway, I am kind of surprised at myself that I've stuck with it for this long, considering how apprehensive I was when this "trial run" started. Now it may not even be a trial run anymore. I'm definitely past when I was supposed to stop (month or month and a half was the plan). And, like I said, I don't have any plans to stop at this moment. So...we'll see, I guess. In the meantime, I am enjoying the changes that have already occurred, however small (but definitely noticeable). I am definitely WAY more calm about this whole process than I was before. Yeah, seriously, really am leaning toward going all the way. Crazy.

[theruiner]

Sorry, double post. Sorry!

So, my doctor officially upped my estrogen dosage today. I'm officially at 6 mg a day, the highest dose they'll allow of this particular pill. I asked her if the physical changes were going to come on faster at the higher dose. "Yes, the physical changes are definitely going to come a lot faster."

[Dra508]

Sorry, double post. Sorry!

So, my doctor officially upped my estrogen dosage today. I'm officially at 6 mg a day, the highest dose they'll allow of this particular pill. I asked her if the physical changes were going to come on faster at the higher dose. "Yes, the physical changes are definitely going to come a lot faster."

What happened with the blood pressure issue?

[icklekitty]

Are you going to start coming out now? I am still a bit concerned that you're going this far with hormones without being sure that you want to transition.

[theruiner]

What happened with the blood pressure issue?

Actually, that was the reason I went to the doctor, and while I was there about that I brought up how low my estrogen levels were and then she mentioned upping my dose. But yeah, the doctor put me on WAY too high a dose of T blockers. I'm taking Spironolactone to block my T. It's a high blood pressure pill (among other things) but it also has the effect of, in high doses, seriously blocking testosterone. I've heard from other trans* people that the regular dose is around 100, maybe 200, milligrams per day. My doctor had me on 400. And that's on top of my REGULAR blood pressure medication. Which, looking back, is kind of insane. I'm no doctor but that just screams bad idea to me. Of course, I trusted my doctor. Learned from that mistake.

Anyway, so I saw his physician's assistant the other day and in addition to upping my estrogen she cut down my Spiro to 200 a day. While I loved how low my T was (seriously, pretty much nonexistent) it wasn't worth the risk of fainting or worse. Hopefully my T won't go shooting up too far. She thinks it won't, but then she also thinks that 91 (which is where my estrogen levels are at) is "high." Um...no it's not. It's actually really, really low for a trans* person. From the other trans* people I have talked to, it should be 200, 300, 400, somewhere in that ballpark. My therapist said she thought it was supposed to be in the 200s. But here I have the physician's assistant saying, "Well, I mean 91 IS high, but if you want it higher I guess we can try it..." Which kind of frustrates me because I am starting to wonder if I'm taking an effective dose here at all. I guess I am, because I'm having actual physical signs that it's working (albeit relatively subtle) so something. is happening, but whether I'm actually at the right level or not I don't know. But I really don't think so. Between the Spiro disaster and my doctor's P.A. thinking 91 is high I think it might be time to find another doctor for this.

Are you going to start coming out now? I am still a bit concerned that you're going this far with hormones without being sure that you want to transition.

Naw, not coming out any time soon. I don't plan on coming out until I'm close to going full time, which at this point is going to be at least a year from now. Though maybe I'll change my mind or maybe things will happen faster, but at the pace it's going I can't see it happening any time soon. No point in coming out to the rest of my family/friends until I need to. Besides, I'm out to most of my friends and my siblings and mom, which is the most important thing.

Also, I sincerely do appreciate your concern about going too far. My sister said the same thing to me the other day. I'm trying to be careful about this but it's getting frustrating. The thing is, I could make a pretty convincing list of evidence that I really want to transition and I could make an equally compelling list that I don't. There's evidence on both sides. What I will say is that I am feeling a lot calmer about things than I did before, and I have been leaning toward transition for weeks instead of being in the middle. Also, I keep coming back to the same argument that keeps getting made over and over in trans* circles when one questions whether or not they're trans: cis gendered people just don't question their gender like this. I didn't spend most of my life desperately wanting to be female, being severely depressed since I was 4 years old and having it consume my life if I wasn't trans*. So that I know for sure- I am, without a doubt, somewhere on the trans* spectrum. That still doesn't mean I should transition, necessarily, but a lifetime of wanting to, to one degree or another, is definitely evidence to that effect.

Anyway, there's just so much to it, too much to go into here. Truthfully, I don't know that I'm doing the right thing at the moment. What I do know is I don't want to go off these hormones, and I've been leaning in the direction of transition for awhile. And I have had a thought in the back of my mind that flutters around whenever I think of stopping, which is that I sincerely, truly, honestly don't know that I could- or would- live the rest of my life as a man. That that isn't an option. So there's that, too. And a lot more. But right now I'm just taking it day by day. I don't know if that's the right thing to do or not but that's what I'm trying at the moment.

[Dra508]

Maybe I'm assuming too much, but I went to the nail salon today and as I was waiting for my toes to dry, this woman came in with her son, probably 10 or 11 years old. She was coming in for a pedicure and her son wanted one too. Then he changed his mind and wanted his nails done (I saw that he already had polish on his toes) and also wanted watermelon decals on all the fingers. I helped translate some of the pricing for the mom since the woman who owns the place, though she tries hard, has a really thick Vietnamese accent.

Am I reading into this too much or is this a really fantastic mom?

[eversonpoe]

fantastic mom. the kind of mom that all moms should aspire to be.

[theruiner]

No, she's a fantastic mom.

Actually, I have the exact opposite story, sadly. One of the supervisors at work was talking about how she took her son with her when she went to get her nails done and she was saying that he asked if he could get his nails done too and she told him no, because, "No son of mine is going to get their nails done!" I just shook my head when I heard that.

Also! Facial feminization surgery is kind of amazing, you guys.

http://i.imgur.com/J4GhBCe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bibJrzG.jpg

[Dra508]

I see nose job and brows shaped. Something else?

[icklekitty]

My friend's just had that in Brazil. The recovery period was surprisingly quick, and she just has a few bruises around her eyes. This time she had the top half of her face done, the next one's for the jaw line.

Although I will reiterate that I know shitloads of women who just look like their dad with long hair.

[theruiner]

Yeah, FFS is definitely on the agenda for me at some point down the line, unless hormones do amazing things to my face. Which they probably won't. There will be some change, but not enough. But that's way down the road.

Edit: Also, if I hear one more trans* person say, "I've been on hormones three months and I'm already a C cup!" I'm going to fucking scream.

I know the process is slow and it's different for everyone, but I see so many people who were way ahead of me at this point. Ugh.

It's not so much a matter of patience as it is wondering if I'm on the right level of hormones to do anything. Because you can say, well, it just takes longer for some people, but if your hormone levels aren't high enough (and mine are not even in the normal range) then you're probably just spinning your wheels and not getting anywhere. Wasting time. So it's hard to tell if I'm just spinning my wheels and need to be on a higher dose, like, yesterday or if they are having the intended effect and this is the normal rate of change.

[icklekitty]

What are your drugs/doses if you don't mind divulging?

[theruiner]

I'm on 6 mg of estrogen a day and 100 mg of sprio (T blocker).

Those are normal doses, but I was on 4 mg a day of estrogen previously, which is also a normal dose, and my estrogen level was only at 91, which is really low. I'm hoping that bumping it up to 6 mg will help but if 4 mg was 91 I can't imagine two extra milligrams a day is really going to make that much of a difference. :/

[allegro]

Does your insurance cover this?
This must be expensive!

[Sarah K]

Here is an interview from a lovely young lady that I kind of used to know back when she was performing drag at a bar I used to frequent. Following her journey has been nothing short of amazing.

http://redefiningrealness.tumblr.com...precious-davis

She has also been listed in the 30 Under 30 list for Chicago, and was named on the Trans 100 list this year. And Laverne Cox even gave her a shout out on Wendy Williams not too long ago.

I didn't know her very well. I spoke with her a handful of times. We had a lot of mutual friends. She's so incredibly sweet, and it's great to see her reaching all of this success after all of the struggles that she endured while living in Nebraska.

[theruiner]

^^Thank you for sharing that! I will definitely be reading that when I have some time this weekend.

Does your insurance cover this?
This must be expensive!

I'm actually not sure. I think so. Either way, estrogen and Spiro are actually not that expensive, at least in pill form. I pay...I think it's $8 a month for the estrogen and the Spiro is under ten, but I don't remember the exact figure.

Now, there are other forms of estrogen that are WAY more expensive. There's one that comes in a pellet that they stick under your skin and I've heard they can run close to a hundred bucks a piece, and you need like three or four at a time. But they last for 6 months and they give a steady stream of estrogen 24/7, unlike pills which lose their strength as the day goes on. The only problem with pellets is you have to be absolutely sure this is what you want because once they go in, they can't take them out. You just have to let it run its course. So if you get one put in and the next day you change your mind, you're stuck, and you're going to have estrogen pumping through your blood for the next 6 months, along with whatever changes they may make, and there's nothing you can do about it. Which...sounds kind of awesome to me, but logically I know I'm not sure enough to do that yet.

There's also progesterone but that's when you're a bit further along, from what I gather. That specifically really helps with breast growth. Though the estrogen is supposed to do a pretty good job on its own.

[allegro]

I was curious because right now I'm on LoLoEstrin which is a 10mg combo of estrogen and progesterone and it's costing me $42 per month and that's with insurance and Obamacare because it's not generic and no combo is available at that low dose that's generic and Blue Cross are cheap bastards (this is Federal "Cadillac" insurance LOL). Such bullshit. I can't take a higher dose because of my migraines.

[icklekitty]

I'm on 6 mg of estrogen a day and 100 mg of sprio (T blocker).

Those are normal doses, but I was on 4 mg a day of estrogen previously, which is also a normal dose, and my estrogen level was only at 91, which is really low. I'm hoping that bumping it up to 6 mg will help but if 4 mg was 91 I can't imagine two extra milligrams a day is really going to make that much of a difference. :/

FWIW I was on Spiro for a year and it did absolutely jack shit; apparently one of its side effects is feminisation. So your frustrations may be chemically/medically grounded. I saw results (re: head hair loss and too much body hair) when I switched to prostate cancer meds. Flutamide/Finasteride (which I think is also Propecia for hair loss).

I'm pretty sure my oestrogen pills are why I'm an F cup...I've been on it for 15 years though!

[theruiner]

Actually, the Spiro is working great. It was the estrogen I was worried wasn't high enough.

All that may be a mute point now, though. Today something changed. Right now, I don't feel nearly as strongly as I did. For a solid month I was very much leaning toward transition. I felt better about things, I was pretty sure, I was feeling good. Today it felt like a switch went off. Now I'm very much leaning toward stopping the hormones and the transition and being done with this whole thing. I don't know what happened. I'm not happy about it. But it feels like something drastically changed today. And, frankly, I'm really sick of the back and forth. Really, really, REALLY sick of it. Transition or not, my brain needs to just figure out what it wants and do it. Seriously, an entire month of finally not bouncing back and forth, finally feeling like I was on the right path and within a matter of, literally, about two minutes, everything changed. I am very distressed right now.