Marilyn Manson Sexual Abuse Allegations

[elevenism]

I can't speak for everyone, but I know that for myself I was in Junior High when that book came out. A lot of us were still kids when we first read it. At the time, I didn't believe most of it was true (and still believe that a lot of it is bullshit). But even the parts I did believe were true, I didn't really have the maturity to understand what sort of story it was telling about Manson other than "OMG, what a crazy rock star."

By the time I had become an adult I had mostly lost interest in Manson as a figure/person even though I still loved the older music and some of his newer releases. I totally forgot about the details of the book until I re-read it again recently amid these allegations brewing.

.

THIS is a great point.

And, I actually welcome it, because I was afraid MY point was a little uppity.

That book came out right before I turned 18, and I was probably closer to 19 before I read it. I think those few years I had on some of you caused it to worry me a little more.

Also, you're totally right that society was going at him for the WRONG SHIT, like his clothes, or association with LaVey. It was a different time, though. Hell, I just rewatched Brittany Spears' Star Search performance. And Ed McMahon, after she sang, said "do you have a boyfriend?" And she said no, and he said something like "what about ME? Can I be your boyfriend?"

[elevenism]

I know this sounds weird to say, but in my real life experience, calling this sort of stuff out has lead to physical conflicts with complete strangers, and I've found that's something I want to avoid... for reasons also related to real life experience. Some of the people out there who act like this are NOT ok.

Sorry for double post, but, yeah. I second that. When I was in CNA school, my new classmate/friend and I went to a party where we only knew the girl who was throwing it. Some dude was openly beating his girlfriend, and my friend told him to stop.

He got jumped.
I tried to tell these guys he'd had enough, and I got knocked out. One timed. I still have a scar under my eye from that shit. We wound up in the hospital.

Also in the hospital was the dude who hit me: he'd BROKEN his HAND on my eye. I had to wear an eye patch for the rest of school. So, yeah: be careful calling this shit out in public, @eskimo , unless you're seriously prepared.

[Sutekh]

There's lots of hazards, I've seen a bloke punch his girlfriend, I went over and knocked him out - and his girlfriend broke a bottle over me! But you have to do the right thing despite danger and lack of applause, as elevenism says just be prepared

[piggy]

Hell, I just rewatched Brittany Spears' Star Search performance. And Ed McMahon, after she sang, said "do you have a boyfriend?" And she said no, and he said something like "what about ME? Can I be your boyfriend?"

Sorry to go off topic for a sec, but I didn't interpret it that way at all. She says that boys are mean and he goes, "what about me?" as in he was asking her if she thinks he's mean. He never asks if he can be her boyfriend.

[scorpiusdiamond]

Yikes, the featured article today on Wikipedia is a Manson album. Read the room...

[botley]

Yikes, the featured article today on Wikipedia is a Manson album.

Really? In what language? It's not on the front page of English Wikipedia...

[scorpiusdiamond]

Really? In what language? It's not on the front page of English Wikipedia...

It’s still on the app

[botley]

It’s still on the app

Wow, that sucks — I didn't realize there was a separate feed for the mobile app. Going to see what can be done to flag this.

[allegro]

I know this sounds weird to say, but in my real life experience, calling this sort of stuff out has lead to physical conflicts with complete strangers, and I've found that's something I want to avoid... for reasons also related to real life experience. Some of the people out there who act like this are NOT ok.

You should not confront the person (abuser).

That’s what law enforcement is for; these psychos are often armed and can shoot you. They also never admit abuse, and will then start abusing YOU. Or, worse yet, they will increase their abuse to the victim. Call police if you’re seeing something bad. Take a photo, discretely.

When @eskimo said “question” suspicious things, he didn’t specifically say “by marching up to the abuser and confronting the abuser.”

Because THAT is often the DUMBEST way to deal with it.

[Jinsai]

There's lots of hazards, I've seen a bloke punch his girlfriend, I went over and knocked him out - and his girlfriend broke a bottle over me! But you have to do the right thing despite danger and lack of applause, as elevenism says just be prepared

well definitely be prepared. Like your anecdote supplies, sometimes this gets dangerous, and really you’re lucky it was just a bottle over the head... she (or he) could have grabbed a nearby fork or knife and not missed a vital organ. I don’t care anymore. I can’t. I’ll call the cops. I had some dude try to drag me into an alley once. Saying the right thing can get you killed. If you live in Hollywood or downtown LA you see something everyday, and I promise, if you said something every day, you would be dead in a month.

[allegro]

Correct answer!!!!!

NEVER confront these people yourself. See my above post. It’s dangerous, they are OFTEN armed with guns, it does NOT help the victim. We are NOT living in the Renaissance.

For fuck’s sake, someone CONFIRMS that they saw MM chase that victim with an axe?

Of course, THEN IS NOT THE TIME TO GET INVOLVED. Except maybe to call police.

But at some point, after? Talk with the victim about getting out, vs. filing it in “weird shit I’ve seen?”

And perhaps document what you saw?

[Mantra]

Yeah, with all due respect...I think the idea that you need to jump in and stop it while it's happening is mostly just macho "hero" nonsense, imo. You see this idea perpetuated in movies all the time. The fantasy of the noble badass. It's a trope that feels incredibly disconnected from the reality of how abuse happens, and how it gets better. Ask all the people who got out of abusive situations and see what percentage of them owe it to some dude jumping in.

[allegro]

People see a situation, they think he’s “cool” but maybe “weird” and he’s built up a “persona” and they actually LIKE the persona and that’s why they’re around him, but if someone is possibly a victim of that person and/or his persona, that causes these followers to experience cognitive dissonance. Also, they’re likely getting some valued perks hanging around their hero, and they weigh out the risks of (1) accepting there is abuse vs. (2) believing their hero is a hero. Majority of times, they will choose Door Number Two.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

So whats next for Manson. Seems like most of the people canceling him were never fans/or were casual fans. Based on what I have seen on reddit and fb, a lot of his hardcore fans seem to not give a shit. His streaming numbers are UP since the allegations. They seem to make the excuses that its just "Manson being Manson" and "we always knew he was wild" and "how stupid were these girls to go out with him in the first place" and especially the "We're Manson fans. We're used to being outcasts" excuse seems to be quite popular ....Its almost like a Burzum thing, where people who are fans wear it as a badge of honor.

I think the dude may lay low for a couple years and when it dies down, then he will return with a new album that will be ACSS Part 9999999. Every song will be about how he's the devil and the nightmare your parents warned you about. He'll end up embracing the image as the bad guy and villain. He'll still have a fanbase that supports him. He's going nowhere. I think in a way he will get off on this. Now people will see him as evil for real, instead of some Hot Topic caricature. He got what he always wanted. He always wanted to be regarded as the crazy, evil mr antichrist superstar villain. Took him 27 years but he finally accomplished it

[allegro]

^ Yup.

[onthewall2983]

No criminal charges yet?

[elevenism]

Sorry to go off topic for a sec, but I didn't interpret it that way at all. She says that boys are mean and he goes, "what about me?" as in he was asking her if she thinks he's mean. He never asks if he can be her boyfriend.

Oh. Well, thank god for that, at least.
Off topic for a second again: I saw hunter Thompson on a talk show with a Hell's Angel in the 70s, I think? And they were talking about how hunter got beat up for saying one of the bikers shouldn't have been beating his wife. And the Angel on the show was talking about how a man should absolutely be able to beat his wife, to keep her in line, and the whole crowd of men and women were cheering.
The point still stands that times have changed for the better, progressively, in some of these areas.

I AM glad I hopefully misunderstood Ed McMahon, though.

End drift.

[elevenism]

So whats next for Manson. Seems like most of the people canceling him were never fans/or were casual fans. Based on what I have seen on reddit and fb, a lot of his hardcore fans seem to not give a shit. His streaming numbers are UP since the allegations. They seem to make the excuses that its just "Manson being Manson" and "we always knew he was wild" and "how stupid were these girls to go out with him in the first place" and especially the "We're Manson fans. We're used to being outcasts" excuse seems to be quite popular ....Its almost like a Burzum thing, where people who are fans wear it as a badge of honor...

I've been thinking something very similar- thinking he's going to wind up being in Mayhem territory, or G.G. Allen. I don't think he's gonna disappear.

[allegro]

I’m pretty sure, seeing photos from last year’s Sturgis Rally, that most biker gang members are 100% sexist assholes. And I doubt the Hell’s Angels have changed at all.

G.G. Alin was just a clown.

No criminal charges yet?

There’s an investigation. In more than one state, I think. Plus possibly Federal?

Won’t matter to fans.

Charles Manson had huge fans.

[Sutekh]

well definitely be prepared. Like your anecdote supplies, sometimes this gets dangerous, and really you’re lucky it was just a bottle over the head... she (or he) could have grabbed a nearby fork or knife and not missed a vital organ. I don’t care anymore. I can’t. I’ll call the cops. I had some dude try to drag me into an alley once. Saying the right thing can get you killed. If you live in Hollywood or downtown LA you see something everyday, and I promise, if you said something every day, you would be dead in a month.

Yeah I think it might be slightly different in London! Gun laws and a surveillance state make it a bit safer. I mean judge the situation always, but I stand by what I said & I'm not dead yet.

Re: what will MM do next, my gut feeling is it is over for him, but if he comes back it will be OJ style

You may even get the spectacle of him as an anti cancel culture alt right talking head on fringe platforms and channels. Brr.

[elevenism]

I’m pretty sure, seeing photos from last year’s Sturgis Rally, that most biker gang members are 100% sexist assholes. And I doubt the Hell’s Angels have changed at all.

G.G. Alin was just a clown.


There’s an investigation. In more than one state, I think. Plus possibly Federal?

Won’t matter to fans.

Charles Manson had huge fans.

Oh, I don't mean the ANGELS changed. I meant that it was stunning that regular like, men and their WIVES were cheering at the notion that a man beating his wife is alright, on a talk show no less. We're definitely past that point. And, Re: Brittany, we're GETTING to a point where a female is less defined by her boyfriend. I mean, even if I misunderstood what Ed was saying on Star Search, it's still kind of rough that, after she gives this incredible performance, the question is "do you have a boyfriend?"

But, yeah. Like what @Helpmeiaminhell was alluding to, there is a certain kind of fan who, I think, like Burzum fans, will almost wear Manson's depravity as a badge of honor going forward.

I think it will be like certain Drill rappers being respected for the number of people they've literally murdered.

[firewlker]

So whats next for Manson. Seems like most of the people canceling him were never fans/or were casual fans. Based on what I have seen on reddit and fb, a lot of his hardcore fans seem to not give a shit. His streaming numbers are UP since the allegations. They seem to make the excuses that its just "Manson being Manson" and "we always knew he was wild" and "how stupid were these girls to go out with him in the first place" and especially the "We're Manson fans. We're used to being outcasts" excuse seems to be quite popular ....Its almost like a Burzum thing, where people who are fans wear it as a badge of honor.

I think the dude may lay low for a couple years and when it dies down, then he will return with a new album that will be ACSS Part 9999999. Every song will be about how he's the devil and the nightmare your parents warned you about. He'll end up embracing the image as the bad guy and villain. He'll still have a fanbase that supports him. He's going nowhere. I think in a way he will get off on this. Now people will see him as evil for real, instead of some Hot Topic caricature. He got what he always wanted. He always wanted to be regarded as the crazy, evil mr antichrist superstar villain. Took him 27 years but he finally accomplished it

Most of his "hardcore fans" on reddit doesn't even know what Nachtkabarett is/was tbh. Not trying to put on a "more hardcore fan" card here but at least me (and some of my inner circle that was even related to translate a lot of Nachtkabarett stuff/biggest Manson fansite on south america) already knew it was him that Evan was talking about when she did her testimony years ago. Not gonna elaborate on more of that since it's not what matters right now,

I agree on what you're saying after all. I believe he will be more of a "big niche" after that. Probably a more popular version of Death In June.

[allegro]

And, Re: Brittany, we're GETTING to a point where a female is less defined by her boyfriend. I mean, even if I misunderstood what Ed was saying on Star Search, it's still kind of rough that, after she gives this incredible performance, the question is "do you have a boyfriend?"

True.

And have you seen any of the stuff, lately, that's saying that we need to finally call Justin Timberlake out? re Britney Spears and Janet Jackson? That they and their careers were tanked for stuff that Timberlake was involved in, he wrote a song and did a nasty video about Britney, he does that "nipple gate" thing with Janet, and then he skates away unscathed, becomes SUPER popular and rich, and they were effectively canceled? And Britney has a nervous breakdown and she STILL DOESN'T HAVE CONTROL OF HER OWN MONEY OR HER KIDS, like 13 years later?

This is after the "Framing Britney Spears” doc came out on Hulu, and people started demanding apologies from Timberlake.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-kno...britney-spears

He finally apologized. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/ju...-janet-jackson

But it isn't just HIM who owes them an apology. A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE OWE THEM AN APOLOGY!!

And jesus GIVE BRITTANY CONTROL OF HER OWN MONEY!!!

[Brittany] says that boys are mean.

The kid wasn't wrong.

[WorzelG]

True.

And have you seen any of the stuff, lately, that's saying that we need to finally call Justin Timberlake out? re Brittany Spears and Janet Jackson? That they and their careers were tanked for stuff that Timberlake was involved in, he wrote a song and did a nasty video about Brittany, he does that "nipple gate" thing with Janet, and then he skates away unscathed, becomes SUPER popular and rich, and they were effectively canceled? And Brittany has a nervous breakdown and she STILL DOESN'T HAVE CONTROL OF HER OWN MONEY OR HER KIDS, like 13 years later?

This is after the "Framing Brittany Spears” doc came out on Hulu, and people started demanding apologies from Timberlake.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-kno...britney-spears

He finally apologized. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/ju...-janet-jackson

But it isn't just HIM who owes them an apology. A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE OWE THEM AN APOLOGY!!

And jesus GIVE BRITTANY CONTROL OF HER OWN MONEY!!!


The kid wasn't wrong.

the boob gate Janet Jackson thing really pisses me off. Babies are fed by tits and they should be able to be on display the same as men, god knows so many men have man boobs we are subjected to, it’s not like we saw her minge

[Jinsai]

the boob-gate thing was even stupider when you consider that this is a SUPER event where dudes give each other concussions while people scream and eat shitty food and get drunk.

[ManBurning]

I don't know if this article was posted yet or not, but this is a very detailed read with Esme Bianco about their relationship. Goes into great detail about their relationship and the things he did.

https://www.thecut.com/2021/02/game-...yn-manson.html

[allegro]

I don't know if this article was posted yet or not, but this is a very detailed read with Esme Bianco about their relationship. Goes into great detail about their relationship and the things he did.

https://www.thecut.com/2021/02/game-...yn-manson.html

Omg

[elevenism]

@allegro I actually watched a bunch of that free Brittany stuff on YouTube over the past few months. but seeing it on Hulu, via whichever news organization it was, sort of cemented the veracity of it all. It's ROUGH. It's really pretty fucking unbelievable. I don't think they'd do that to a man.

And, yeah, re: Justin and Janet- JUSTIN is the one who pulled HER clothes off, but SHE was banned from playing the Grammys I think, and supposedly unofficially banned from playing the Super Bowl again, right? Aka cancelled, as you said. And they brought HIM back to play the same damn stage again.

Edit: also, @WorzelG , yeah, NIPPLES are EVIL. But people getting shot in the face and such, on network tv, is perfectly ok.

Ugh.

But, HEY. At least we're starting to TALK about all of this, along with the MM business.

[allegro]

@allegro I actually watched a bunch of that free Brittany stuff on YouTube over the past few months. but seeing it on Hulu, via whichever news organization it was, sort of cemented the veracity of it all. It's ROUGH. It's really pretty fucking unbelievable. I don't think they'd do that to a man.

No, no they wouldn’t. A person who could do an extended residency in Vegas isn’t so “mentally ill” that she needs someone else to control all of all of her finances. Her father is USING her as a cash cow, and I hope Spears really does stop working until she regains control of her money. It’s horrible. This whole thing makes me sick.

I am watching it tonight and you’re right, Ed McMahon DOES ultimately offer to be her boyfriend. This Spears documentary is infuriating. What the media, society, all kinds of people did to her is ... reprehensible.

And the evidence in this doc does point to sealed Court evidence indicating that Spears suffered some kind of severe mental breakdown that is somewhat permanent; she’s definitely not the same person, anymore. But her father should not be in charge of her affairs, and her state is the fault of paparazzi and pressure.

[tony.parente]

So this is all gonna end with Manson either killing himself or ending up in prison for the rest of his life.

At what point is listening to his music basically being the same as watching one of those murder/sexual assault documentaries? This shit is nuts.